Liverpool City Region-Bus Franchising

[Fawkes Cat]

Disappointed at the 10A frequency being reduced to every 10 minutes when franchising starts, other than the Summer timetable the 10A is every 7 to 8 minutes, & buses often leave Queen Square full, so capacity will be an issue too.

I've no familiarity with these buses as a user, but from looking at the current timetable (https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/10-QBN-19Jul26.pdf) I see that
- the 10 and the 10A run a common route from Liverpool to Derby Street i.e. they divide so that the 10 goes to Prescot and the 10A to Whiston Hospital, Rainhill and Thatto Heath, before they both end in St Helens, and
- the 10A is currently jointly operated by Arrival and Stagecoach: the 10 is solely by Arriva

I don't know enough to know if 10As are busy and the 10 isn't: but unless that's the case then dropping from a joint 10A service every seven or eight minutes to a sole operator every ten minutes feels more like removing wasteful competition rather than a cut in provision.

(Edited to add 'a' in the first sentence, and to remove the sins of autocorrect for place names)

 

[Statto]

I go on the 10, 10A pretty often & they're one of the busiest routes in Merseyside, the 10A has always been a bit busier than the 10 as that goes via Whiston Hospital, Rainhill & Thatto Heath, certainly 7 to 8 minute frequency is justified for the 10A, even though it combines with the 8,9, & 10B, between Queen Square-Page Moss & Blue Bell Lane.

 

[markymark2000]

The timetables for the 10/10a have been published. The timetable does not seem to be very radical compared to what already exists commercially. I also don't like how they retained the model that to prevent dead running, they run shorts for the last few trips of the day which the Bee Network has avoided for some core routes with buses running end to end in both directions in the early hours after midnight.

New Timetables

New Timetables

www.merseytravel.gov.uk

Someone has let the AI run wild on these timetables, what an absolute mess. How hard is it to have an even timetable during the core times of day. No customer has ever asked for a bus to run 'somewhere between every 9-12 minutes'. And I still don't get why the evenings are so all over the place. 8pm-last bus could easily be the same times each day rather than randomly changed by a minute or two here and there. Any scheduler worth their money at least tries to make a uniform evening service where it's justified (of course here I am referring to where it's the same evening frequency all days of operation).

 

[Leedsbusman]

I've no familiarity with these buses as a user, but from looking at the current timetable (https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/10-QBN-19Jul26.pdf) I see that
- the 10 and the 10A run a common route from Liverpool to Derby Street i.e. they divide so that the 10 goes to Prescot and the 10A to Whiston Hospital, Rainhill and Thatto Heath, before they both end in St Helens, and
- the 10A is currently jointly operated by Arrival and Stagecoach: the 10 is solely by Arriva

I don't know enough to know if 10As are busy and the 10 isn't: but unless that's the case then dropping from a joint 10A service every seven or eight minutes to a sole operator every ten minutes feels more like removing wasteful competition rather than a cut in provision.

(Edited to add 'a' in the first sentence, and to remove the sins of autocorrect for place names)

If the current service is 7/8 minutes where is the wasteful competition? And how is a 10 minute service not a cut?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If the current service is 7/8 minutes where is the wasteful competition? And how is a 10 minute service not a cut?

Also, the 10/10A were part of the Quality Bus Partnership so hadn't the "wasteful competition" already been dealt with?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If the current service is 7/8 minutes where is the wasteful competition? And how is a 10 minute service not a cut?

I rather hope that you are right, and I am wrong.

Also, the 10/10A were part of the Quality Bus Partnership so hadn't the "wasteful competition" already been dealt with?

I can't help but feel that if Quality Bus Partnerships had been fully effective, then we wouldn't have seen the 2017 Act which (I think - happy to be corrected) introduced franchising.

 

[londonteacher]

I rather hope that you are right, and I am wrong.

I can't help but feel that if Quality Bus Partnerships had been fully effective, then we wouldn't have seen the 2017 Act which (I think - happy to be corrected) introduced franchising.

To be fair in Liverpool they worked quite well. The 10/10a, 86, 82, 53 and 471/472 (possibly) all worked well and led to good service shared between Arriva and Stagecoach.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I can't help but feel that if Quality Bus Partnerships had been fully effective, then we wouldn't have seen the 2017 Act which (I think - happy to be corrected) introduced franchising.

Worked well in Merseyside, less well in South Yorkshire.

However, if you think the 2017 Buses Act (which was the brainchild of George Osborne) was the result of some altruistic purpose or some epiphany on how local government might work, can I remind you why so many councils had to cut tendered services? The cutting of central funding and suspect the Buses Act was something similar.

 

[Fokx]

Disappointed at the 10A frequency being reduced to every 10 minutes when franchising starts, other than the Summer timetable the 10A is every 7 to 8 minutes, & buses often leave Queen Square full, so capacity will be an issue too.

It's not even every 10 minutes either.
For most of the day it's every 12 to 15 minutes around the peaks.

That's genuinely dreadful.

 

[londonteacher]

It's not even every 10 minutes either.
For most of the day it's every 12 to 15 minutes around the peaks.

That's genuinely dreadful.

It’s really not dreadful though. Yes the services are busy, but for a lot of the route there are many other bus services that run along the same route. From St Helens to Huyton granted there are only the 10/10a but from Huyton you have other services such as the 10b. Then from Page Moss you have the 7 and 9.

 

[Fokx]

It’s really not dreadful though. Yes the services are busy, but for a lot of the route there are many other bus services that run along the same route. From St Helens to Huyton granted there are only the 10/10a but from Huyton you have other services such as the 10b. Then from Page Moss you have the 7 and 9.

It is dreadful, it's Merseyside's busiest bus corridor (akin to the 192 in Manchester) and for the eastern half of the route from Bluebell lane there is minimal alternative routes.

In the early 00's you had CMT, GTL and Arriva all competing on the 10A with a frequency of around every 3-5 minutes. You also then had the Arriva 7,8,9 & 10B, Merseyline 10B and, LMS 10B (until 2003) and GTL 10C and 210.

As another poster has said, it is really not uncommon to see the 10/10A leave full and standing from Liverpool under the current more frequent frequency. Every 15 minutes each is a huge downgrade

 

[londonteacher]

In the early 00's you had CMT, GTL and Arriva all competing on the 10A with a frequency of around every 3-5 minutes. You also then had the Arriva 7,8,9 & 10B, Merseyline 10B and, LMS 10B (until 2003) and GTL 10C and 210

Aah yes the end of the famous Liverpool bus wars.

As another poster has said, it is really not uncommon to see the 10/10A leave full and standing from Liverpool under the current more frequent frequency. Every 15 minutes each is a huge downgrade

And if that proves to be case once the services start I’m sure more buses will be added on. There will be mechanisms for that.

The best thing about franchising means that they can be more responsive and not have to rely on private companies agreeing that it is commercially viable.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It's not even every 10 minutes either.
For most of the day it's every 12 to 15 minutes around the peaks.

That's genuinely dreadful.

Is this the 10 or the 10A you're talking about? Looking at https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/New Timetables/St Helens/10_10A-6Sep26v1.pdf, and taking 1100 to 1200 M-F as a sample (also departing from Liverpool towards St Helens) there are 4 No 10s, and 6 No 10As. Compare to the current timetable at https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/10-QBN-19Jul26.pdf which for the same sample gives 3x10 and 7x10A.

(Edited to add) Although I now remember that the current timetable is the summer (i.e. non-term time) timetable so with some reductions.

 

[Fokx]

Is this the 10 or the 10A you're talking about? Looking at https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/New Timetables/St Helens/10_10A-6Sep26v1.pdf, and taking 1100 to 1200 M-F as a sample (also departing from Liverpool towards St Helens) there are 4 No 10s, and 6 No 10As. Compare to the current timetable at https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/10-QBN-19Jul26.pdf which for the same sample gives 3x10 and 7x10A.

(Edited to add) Although I now remember that the current timetable is the summer (i.e. non-term time) timetable so with some reductions.

Largely the 10A, but both routes have seen reductions in the peak hours..

Monday to Friday there are 5 departures from St Helens to Liverpool between 8am and 9am.
In the current reduced non-term time timetable, that number is 6.
The 10 is the same, there are now 3 departures between 8am and 9am towards Liverpool vice the usual 4. (Currently 3 in the reduced summer timetable)

So that's at least 2 buses an hour in one direction that have been removed from the timetable in the busiest travelling period, alongside the reduction in passenger capacity of the new metro-spec vehicles Vs the previous Arriva and Stagecoach E40D and E400 fleets.

 

[Statto]

Like i said, i catch the 10, 10A quite often, & they are one of the busiest routes on Merseyside & the 10A being every 7 to 8 minutes is justified, what is happening is a frequency cut, which is what franchising was not supposed to be about, it is supposed to be about improving services not making them worse.

Like i said, i often see buses on 10, 10A leave Queen Square full, even when there is a 8,9 & 10B in front, that the 7 to 8 minute frequency is justified, & it was more frequent than that before Covid hit

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2026 ==

The 10A is currently on the summer timetable, but for 1 week from 30th August until 5th September it goes back to the normal timetable, here is the normal timetable from 30th August

https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/10-QBN-30Aug26.pdf

 

[markymark2000]

Is this the 10 or the 10A you're talking about? Looking at https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/New Timetables/St Helens/10_10A-6Sep26v1.pdf, and taking 1100 to 1200 M-F as a sample (also departing from Liverpool towards St Helens) there are 4 No 10s, and 6 No 10As. Compare to the current timetable at https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/10-QBN-19Jul26.pdf which for the same sample gives 3x10 and 7x10A.

(Edited to add) Although I now remember that the current timetable is the summer (i.e. non-term time) timetable so with some reductions.

This was the pre Summer timetable if it helps people with making comparisons https://drive.google.com/file/d/174yQOw_QMj3XrHpqZfrRHJN3vj8FC6n9/view (link originally from https://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Timetables/Liverpool1/n-5fx44

10 10A 10B 10S

Liverpool-Prescot/Huyton/St Helens

5/10/2025

Evening route changed in St Helens town centre

 

[childwallblues]

Dont forget that St Helens Central Railway Station is two minutes walk from the bus station and has three trains an hour into Liverpool, two all stations and one with one stop at Huyton.The trains are operated by Northern using Class 323 or 331 units. There is also an infrequent TPE service between Glasgow Central and Liverpool which runs nonstop and uses Class 397 units.

 

[Statto]

The 10, 10A serve a large area thats well away from the railway though, & not everyone travels end to end on it although some do even though the 10A can take 90 minutes in the peaks, i've seen a load go from Queen Square to Prescot rather than getting the train.

Because how busy it is the 10A is far more frequent than the train, the train is what 3 an hour with 2 stoppers an hour, compared to every 7 to 8 minutes, & the bus is far cheaper too with the £2 fare, but most are using passes.

 

[Jezza22]

Like i said, i catch the 10, 10A quite often, & they are one of the busiest routes on Merseyside & the 10A being every 7 to 8 minutes is justified, what is happening is a frequency cut, which is what franchising was not supposed to be about, it is supposed to be about improving services not making them worse.

Like i said, i often see buses on 10, 10A leave Queen Square full, even when there is a 8,9 & 10B in front, that the 7 to 8 minute frequency is justified, & it was more frequent than that before Covid hit

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2026 ==

The 10A is currently on the summer timetable, but for 1 week from 30th August until 5th September it goes back to the normal timetable, here is the normal timetable from 30th August

https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/10-QBN-30Aug26.pdf

The 10 & 10A aren't going back to their normal timetable, they're staying as the summer timetable until the end of service on 5th September, then the new timetable comes into operation on the 6th when Stagecoach operates them. Says on the timetable that they're staying as summer timetable as well which makes sense as no point changing them just for a week

 

[JasonL]

I wonder if Merseytravel will ever consider making the 10A a 24/7 service? It would make sense since there are 3 hospitals on that route, Whiston Hospital, Alder Hay Children's Hospital and The University Hospital.

 

[londonteacher]

I wonder if Merseytravel will ever consider making the 10A a 24/7 service? It would make sense since there are 3 hospitals on that route, Whiston Hospital, Alder Hay Children's Hospital and The University Hospital.

I’m sure they would consider it. How is the N1 service doing?

 

[johncrossley]

Like i said, i catch the 10, 10A quite often, & they are one of the busiest routes on Merseyside & the 10A being every 7 to 8 minutes is justified, what is happening is a frequency cut, which is what franchising was not supposed to be about

I was actually expecting franchising to reduce frequencies on the major routes and transfer resources to areas which were badly served under deregulation. The increase in frequency on already frequent main routes combined with savage cuts on other routes has been identified as one of the key issues of deregulation for decades. However, this doesn't seem to be happening in Manchester, and they are even increasing frequencies on routes which are already saturated with buses.

I'm actually curious to see for myself how busy this route 10/10A is. I've been to Manchester quite a few times over the years, riding on what are supposed to be really busy routes, such as the famous 192, but always found them a lot less busy than London routes which run every 12 minutes. Thinking about it, it would be strange if buses in Liverpool are overcrowded, given that patronage in the PTE areas has dropped dramatically since the start of deregulation. Hence the desire for franchising to turn things around.

 

[Northerngirl]

I think half the crowding issues come from the completely uncontrolled frequencies at the moment. Multiple times ive been on an empty 10a, with 2 other vehicles ahead of it by about 30 seconds

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I was actually expecting franchising to reduce frequencies on the major routes and transfer resources to areas which were badly served under deregulation. The increase in frequency on already frequent main routes combined with savage cuts on other routes has been identified as one of the key issues of deregulation for decades. However, this doesn't seem to be happening in Manchester, and they are even increasing frequencies on routes which are already saturated with buses.

I'm actually curious to see for myself how busy this route 10/10A is. I've been to Manchester quite a few times over the years, riding on what are supposed to be really busy routes, such as the famous 192, but always found them a lot less busy than London routes which run every 12 minutes. Thinking about it, it would be strange if buses in Liverpool are overcrowded, given that patronage in the PTE areas has dropped dramatically since the start of deregulation. Hence the desire for franchising to turn things around.

That's because the routes that have increased frequencies are the ones experiencing patronage growth. Also, if you don't grow the revenue on core routes, you don't have the funds to support any evening or Sunday enhancements.

No point in putting resources into routes that don't have growth potential or don't need it either.

As for overbussing... the common refrain was that operators had either settled into an unofficial agreement (i.e. mutually assured destruction), held a dominant position to deter competitors, or in the case of Merseyside, there were QBPs that meant services were rationalised.

The idea that buses wouldn't be overcrowded because patronage has dropped in PTE areas... perhaps there are fewer buses? Also, in Greater Manchester, there's also a lot of passenger abstraction and cuts to bus services because of the Metrolink.

Anyhow... back to the other end of the East Lancs

 

[MCRTransitYT]

Metro Network timetables have come onto bustimes, with two operators so far:
MNSC - Metro Network Stagecoach
MNWB - Metro Network Warrington Borough Transport
Interesting to see the name change from Merseytravel Metro to this new "Metro Network", and also poor data input into bustimes means the operators are called Metro Network, unlike Bee Network where it shows the operator aswell

 

[Fokx]

Metro Network timetables have come onto bustimes, with two operators so far:
MNSC - Metro Network Stagecoach
MNWB - Metro Network Warrington Borough Transport
Interesting to see the name change from Merseytravel Metro to this new "Metro Network", and also poor data input into bustimes means the operators are called Metro Network, unlike Bee Network where it shows the operator aswell

Also shows the 11 bus stops associated with the X3

 

[markymark2000]

Interesting to see the name change from Merseytravel Metro to this new "Metro Network", and also poor data input into bustimes means the operators are called Metro Network, unlike Bee Network where it shows the operator aswell

You're misunderstanding how these things work.
Bee Network, and Metro Network are set up in the National Operator Code database as a number of operator codes under both Bee Network (BNGN, BNDB, BNSC, BNFM, BNML, BNVB) and Metro Network (BNGN, BNHT, BNWB, BNSC). The details here are maintained by Traveline, and these codes were set up using the details requested by TFGM and Merseytravel respectively. NOCs are meant to cover the brand operating the service, rather than the specific legal operator (see Go South Coast where it's legally 1 identity but trades as many smaller operators). As all services will be operated under Bee Network/Metro Network, that is why the operator codes use these brands. As far as customers see/will see, their bus is operated by Bee Network or Metro Network and largely won't know or car which specific local operator is running their bus, and so this is what information should be shown to the public on journey planners and so on (how many people in Manchester know if their bus is ran by Metroline or Stagecoach?).

What bustimes has done in Bee Networks case, is set up manual overrides to replace the name that comes in from the National Operator Code database, to include the operators names as this is in the interests of the majority of users on it's site, and helps some other functions too (such vehicle details side). This is a non standard override though, specific to bustimes, in the interest of it's users. If you go to any other journey planning site (which isn't using Bustimes scripts), they will all just show 'Bee Network'
Bustimes has not set up the same override for the Metro Network operator codes, but I am sure they will do when time permits given they did it for Bee Network.

There is no 'poor data input' anywhere in this instance. It's a bustimes manual override on one, and the other is showing exactly what it's meant to.

Also shows the 11 bus stops associated with the X3

Which matches the PDF on Merseytravels website.....

Limited stop service calling at the following stops: from ST HELENS (CHALON WAY WEST):
Marshalls Cross Road, St Helens Hospital
Marshalls Cross Road, Lea Green Station
Clockface Road, Lindale Drive
Clockface Road, Gorsey Lane
Clockface Road, Sweet Briar Court
Warrington Road, Mill Lane
Lunts Heath Road, Glebe Garage
Pex Hill, Cronton Lane
Cronton Road, Chapel Lane
to LIVERPOOL JOHN LENNON AIRPORT

Limited stop service calling at the following stops: from LIVERPOOL JOHN LENNON AIRPORT:
Cronton Road, Chapel Lane
Pex Hill, Cronton Lane
Lunts Heath Road, Glebe Garage
Clockface Road, Warrington Road
Clockface Road, Sweet Briar Court
Clockface Road, Gorsey Lane
Clockface Road, Lindale Drive
Marshalls Cross Road, Lea Green Station
Marshalls Cross Road, St Helens Hospital
to ST HELENS (CHALON WAY EAST)

 

[Simon75]

Metro Network timetables have come onto bustimes, with two operators so far:
MNSC - Metro Network Stagecoach
MNWB - Metro Network Warrington Borough Transport
Interesting to see the name change from Merseytravel Metro to this new "Metro Network", and also poor data input into bustimes means the operators are called Metro Network, unlike Bee Network where it shows the operator aswell

The last 322 ends Old Wargrave road, rather than continuing to Warrington..

 

[JasonL]

A few people are wondering if some of the BZL's at Warrington are going to be painted into METRO livery. I wonder if they will?

 

[M60lad]

To be honest (I might be wrong) but I can't see Warrington repainted any of their fleet into METRO livery considering all of the fleet is classed as common user meaning apart from the deckers can be used on any Warrington route, if any were to be repainted into METRO livery no doubt daily you'll see METRO liveried vehicles on non METRO routes in/around Warrington.

As for the 10/!0A I've been in Liverpool in the past and due to how long its took a 10A to load in Queen Square there's been a 10A right behind it waiting to load and there's also various pinch points along the route from Liverpool to Page Moss where the bus behind can actually catch up with the bus in front which has been happening for quite a while now.