Is it normal for the original builder of the train to contribute to the refurbishment of a second hand unit?
No not sceptical, more commercial common sense.
323s are only quick up to about 60mph so are great on the Liverpool to Wigan stoppers due to the brilliant braking capabilities especially with the Double Variable Rate Sanders during leaf fall. They take a lot longer to go from 60-90mph and can never keep to time on Blackpool-Airport runs especially on the higher speed sections between Chorley and Salford Crescent. Besides the excessive wind noise from the failing vacuum door seals mean many drivers don't go above 75mph as hearing the AWS warnings and vigilance is difficult.
I suppose any new systems which they have to develop for retro-fitting to the 350/2s could also be used for the Desiro Verve, so they’d be doing design work which they’d have to do anyway, and can re-use.
Interesting. Any unit I’ve ridden between Preston and Manchester has definitely hit 90mph where capable and kept time just fine, usually arriving at Salford with a few minutes to spare. As you say, it must be driver preference. 350s are built like tanks so getting rid of any disturbance from the cab door will be a massive bonus for drivers.
I know theres definitely issues at Salford Cresent and deansgate with platform lengths. Which will definitely be costly fixes and Cresent will even struggle with SDO. What other stations would be problematic?
I think it depends on the unit and the driver. I remember when they was here in the west midlands and got up past 70mph between Longbridge & Bromsgrove the wind noises were terrible if you were sat behind a cab.
Drivers must’ve been thankful for the 75mph TSR at Barnt Green then. Although, I remember a few fun rides where line speed was achieved before slowing down to cross the junction haha
Should be able to do it between Macclesfield and Congleton and Alderley Edge and Holmes Chapel ( when skipping Chelford and Goostrey ).
I agree. The 331/1s would probably make more sense from a staff training point of view, as it would save both west and east side crews having to learn the 350/2s, as well as maintenance staff.
The 3 Carriage 331's get absolutely wedged at peak time and on weekends out of Leeds. It's not a case of a few people having to stand, but crush loading and/or people being physically unable to board. That's why replacing 3-car 331's on any diagrams they operate singly, with 350's would make a lot of sense.
This is exactly what I mean. Just have all Airedale and Wharfedale, as well as Leeds to Doncaster diagrams as 4 car trains and everyone is happy.
I wanted them to get the battery proposals sorted out and get ScotRail to grab them for the Fife CircleThats a shame, the 323s still seem quite modern to me.. guess the gubbins that power the things are life expired/expensive to run. Cant imagine corrosion being a problem.
I wanted the 350s to go to GWR to push their 387s to Southern allowing SE to keep its 377s but the DfT didnt want to listen to me
I still think 6 carriages are going to be needed on peak workings. The morning commuter 333's into Leeds off the Doncaster line are pretty full now, and I imagine the same is true on the Airedale/Wharfedale corridor too. It's probably worth keeping some 331's on the East side just to keep crew competency too.
I'd like to see them stay and for northern to look at services which could have capacity/frequency increases once the new fleet is introduced
No one knows yet, there is a possibility they will be replaced at tail end of many massive orders for Northern.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens now. Northern is going to need additional EMU's for newly electrified routes too.
That won't be a Northern service any more, so nearly all Northern trains to Crewe will serve all stations from Wilmslow.
There is no chance of any 323s staying on if all of the 350s are accepted. Even with some 331s moving to Yorkshire and all of the 323s leaving for scrap there is hardly enough stabling space for the 350s.
No. Eventually that space will be used up serving Golborne.
In the Modern Railways article Northern say that the new fleet order is unaffected by the 350/2s replacing the 323s.
Eventually, yes, 6 cars on these services should be the long term goal. But there is no way that 6 cars on east side EMU services should be prioritised over 6 cars on the Airport to Liverpool and Blackpool routes, which are prone to serious overcrowding as 4 cars.
4 units currently out awaiting transformers apparently which are hard to come by, 243 was out for nearly a year awaiting one.
As much as I like the 323s, their time has sadly come to go. I was referring to the 350s being kept after the future fleet replacement as the units have a potential 20 more years left in them at least. by the time any new fleet has come about, that gives 10 years or so to figure out the stabling problem.
Maybe most of them. On Saturday November 15th I boarded a 3 car example at Eccles. There had admittedly been the storm the night before.
