Great British Railways - First Train in New Livery

[Invincible]

And BR gave us Ginster's Cornish Pasty wrapped 158s at Manchester Piccadilly and London Waterloo...

Presume promotions, like the recent SWR Lego train on the Windsor line, can be temporarily incorporated into the new GBR livery?

 

[CR165022]

730033 for WMR

730210 as well for LNR

 

[Warrior2852]

Nor does it mention the Caledonian Sleeper.

Not part of GBR, it's devolved to the Scottish government like ScotRail.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Do all TOCs under public ownership have a unit with a “Coming soon” sticker on them? I know that SWR, c2c, and Greater Anglia do, but I’m not sure about Northern, so maybe Northern’s re-branding will come later than with other TOCs. Is there a list of the units which have a “Coming soon” sticker on them?

Just the ones that came into public ownership as a result of the phased nationalisation of the country’s railways. LNER, TPE and Northern did not.

 

[Andyh82]

If that list is correct then surely the L part of LNWR is quite key.

You could imagine a website with a drop down list and everyone in Manchester clicking on ‘North West’ to be greeted by info about stopping services out of Euston.

Also surely the E part of TPE is quite key as well.

 

[RUK]

If that list is correct then surely the L part of LNWR is quite key.

You could imagine a website with a drop down list and everyone in Manchester clicking on ‘North West’ to be greeted by info about stopping services out of Euston.

Also surely the E part of TPE is quite key as well.

I guess the issue is with “Great British Railways” already being such a long name.

 

[GoneSouth]

The Inter(7)City trains have a different livery there, though they seem to be suggesting the 222s won't.

And, “English” trains go there so, that probably (I think) makes 7 different liveries in Scotland. Scotrail, Scotrail HSTs, Caledonian Sleeper, XC, Avanti, LNER, TPExpress.

 

[Warrior2852]

I guess the issue is with “Great British Railways” already being such a long name.

They could take a lesson from half of Europe and primarily use the initials as the main branding (SNCF, SBB, etc.).

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And, “English” trains go there so, that probably (I think) makes 7 different liveries in Scotland. Scotrail, Scotrail HSTs, Caledonian Sleeper, XC, Avanti, LNER, TPExpress.

8, Lumo too. There's also arguably room for a 9th too with the 153s on the West Highland Line - it's a variant of the base ScotRail with additional artwork across the body.

 

[StephenHunter]

They could take a lesson from half of Europe and primarily use the initials as the main branding (SNCF, SBB, etc.).

SBB CFF FFS doesn't produce a good scoring round on Countdown though.

 

[Invincible]

And, “English” trains go there so, that probably (I think) makes 7 different liveries in Scotland. Scotrail, Scotrail HSTs, Caledonian Sleeper, XC, Avanti, LNER, TPExpress.

Eventually will be just ScotRail or GBR with a shared ticket sales arrangement

 

[Goldfish62]

Eventually will be just ScotRail or GBR with a shared ticket sales arrangement

And Lumo and Caledonian Sleeper.

 

[Invincible]

And Lumo and Caledonian Sleeper.

Think the Government wants 100% nationalisation, but looks like Open-access operators will stay in UK and parts of Europe.
Eurostar used to be owned by the UK Government, but now mostly owned by the French and Belgium Governments. Whether Branson will set up a new Virgin branded Open-access operator to take on Eurostar in 2030 we shall see?

 

[Amos390]

Hi, I'm aware that there is a 387 and a 701 in GBR livery now, is that it as far as can be said so far or am I missing some other liveries. Another question being will RTT diagrams be changed to show the new GBR liveries on the units in due time too?

Edit: Another question I just thought was what will be the first unit out of factory to be in the new GBR livery, will that most likely be the HS2 stock (If those actually get completed...)

 

[StephenHunter]

Wonder when we'll see a 357 in the new livery? They were undergoing a refresh under c2c before renationalisation anyway.

 

[800001]

Hi, I'm aware that there is a 387 and a 701 in GBR livery now, is that it as far as can be said so far or am I missing some other liveries. Another question being will RTT diagrams be changed to show the new GBR liveries on the units in due time too?

Edit: Another question I just thought was what will be the first unit out of factory to be in the new GBR livery, will that most likely be the HS2 stock (If those actually get completed...)

First two Azuma’s are being wrapped in GBR livery end of June. Then it’ll be two per month that’ll be wrapped until the fleet are all done

 

[sprinterguy]

I think there are far more sub-brands than there need to be here.

To be fair, there will be for at least as long as they continue to operate as separately managed train operating units, and GBR, once they exist, will have the herculean task of breaking down the walls and unpicking the Ts and Cs between them to make it otherwise at anything other than a superficial level.

I personally find it quite bizarre that trains are being branded for an organisation that doesn't actually exist yet, or knows what form it will ultimately take: The Railways Bill to formalise GBR is still going through parliament.

Even BR waited a few months until after it came into existence before trying out funny liveries on Castles and Jubilees, A4s and Duchesses back in 1948, and they didn't end up looking much like the final product.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Is it cheating to say the 357 that had the Uniin jack livery is C2Cs first GBR liveried train

 

[sprinterguy]

View attachment 204713

Is it cheating to say the 357 that had the Uniin jack livery is C2Cs first GBR liveried train

A good shout, though I feel like Stratford's 47163 and 164 were about fifty years ahead of the curve. Mind you, that's when it was proper British Rail!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Noted at Reading this afternoon 701006 in GBR South Western livery. Here’s a hastily taken picture of it.
Having now seen the livery in the flesh it ain’t too bad. The red flashes on the intermediate cars seem a bit excessive though.

 

[Mike Machin]

Noted at Reading this afternoon 701006 in GBR South Western livery. Here’s a hastily taken picture of it.
Having now seen the livery in the flesh it ain’t too bad. The red flashes on the intermediate cars seem a bit excessive though.
View attachment 204718

In a casual first glance, for our area I think for many of us it will superficially look a bit like the return of South West Trains again. Our area always looked lovely and bright and this new GBR livery brings with it a welcome splash of colour following the last few years of sombre blue and dull grey.

 

[birchesgreen]

I feel the extra GBR and logo in the red is superfluous if you have got it written down the side. It looks a bit squeezed into the red area in any case, it might be better swapping positions with the Arterio.

 

[GoneSouth]

The more I see it the more i think of GBNews. And nobody wants that in their lives!

Actually it looks ok. What I think needs to happen is an intercity, a regional express and a local version so there’s some distinction between routes at busy stations. One of the things I do like about franchising is i can see where my train is easily because I know what colour it is.

 

[Electrostar387]

The more I see it the more i think of GBNews. And nobody wants that in their lives!

I think that's quite literally the point, the likes of GB News and various others have attempted to capitalise on the flag and take ownership of it. By (to use an absolutely haunted phrase) "taking back control" of the national identity it can help to shift away from association with GB News and others.

Think of it a bit the way that years ago singers like Lily Allen "took ownership" of the word "b**ch" etc., in their songs to stop it being used as a pejorative against them.

 

[vuzzeho]

Hi, I'm aware that there is a 387 and a 701 in GBR livery now, is that it as far as can be said so far or am I missing some other liveries. Another question being will RTT diagrams be changed to show the new GBR liveries on the units in due time too?

Edit: Another question I just thought was what will be the first unit out of factory to be in the new GBR livery, will that most likely be the HS2 stock (If those actually get completed...)

As of today, 23rd May, the 387 and 701 are the only units in the GBR livery. That represents 2 business units, the (yet to exist) Southern (as part of the Thameslink IBU - to be established) and the currently existing South Western IBU. Repaints will be done as trains come in for standard repainting, or probably for some press events. The rollout is meant to be starting from this point on, though it'll probably be a while before it picks up pace.

RTT - I don't know, probably.

The first unit from the factory to be in the GBR livery will likely be the LNER/GBR East Coast Class 897 Serenzas. HS2 trains will be many years off!

 

[Deepgreen]

I do think people who join railway enthusiast type forums are more likely to overblow things like this.

Already got 7 pages on what amounts to discussion of a paint scheme on a railway carriage.

I would find it hard to believe that GBR/DfT etc (probably via consultants/design agencies etc) haven't gone to quite a few focus groups with passengers from all backgrounds and asked their views on it, to get this far, and with enough confidence to make it a political and ministerial announcement. It must therefore have performed reasonably positively with decent data to back it up. I'd also imagine it's been via charities, equality groups etc for their feedback and refinement.

It would also appear from my limited time on this forum, that you are generally quite left leaning - when the mood of the country is shifting massively towards Reform/right of politics - with British or national identity a huge part of that.

Well, it isn't really that surprising that these things get a lot of attention on...rail forums! It is quite a momentous thing, and the actual livery is only a marker for the much wider political issue (not that that is discussed here). Given how much was probably spent on dreaming up this livery, like it or loathe it, a few pages of chatter isn't at all unexpected or out of plac

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Interesting that they are keeping a yellow front. I wonder if that will feature on all trains?

My thoughts exactly. It seems odd that the yellow is there (although I like it). So much effort was made in many quarters to be able to do away with it that it's surprising to see it retained. Perhaps the application of the vinyls didn't extend to the cab ends? It would be amusing to see yellow ends applied to units which were delivered under the privatised regime without them!

 

[Liam L]

Apparently according to a handout given at Brighton station yesterday to members of the press for the launch of the new look train, the names for each operator will be:

It doesn't mention any of the other brands (Gatwick Express, Heathrow Express, Stansted Express etc).

I cannot link to the leaflet yet as it does have an embargo notice on it until sometime next week

NEW	OLD
Great British Railways | Southern	Southern Railway
Great British Railways | South East	Southeastern
Great British Railways | Thameslink	Thameslink
Great British Railways | Great Northern	Great Northern
Great British Railways | Great Western	GWR
Great British Railways | South Western	South Western Railway
Great British Railways | Island Line	Island Line
Great British Railways | Chiltern	Chiltern Railway
Great British Railways | Anglia	Greater Anglia/C2C
Great British Railways | East Coast	LNER
Great British Railways | West Coast	Avanti West Coast
Great British Railways | West Midlands	West Midlands Railway
Great British Railways | North Western	LNWR
Great British Railways | North	Northern
Great British Railways | TransPennine	TransPennine Express
Great British Railways | East Midlands	East Midlands Railway
Great British Railways | CrossCountry	CrossCountry Trains
Great British Railways | High Speed	Southeastern High Speed/HS2
Great British Railways | Sleeper	GWR Sleeper Service

I hate to be negative but seriously what is the point of the new (awful) branding if it's going to retain the same area names anyway?

I hope that Richard parker here in the west midlands gets his way and retains the West Midlands branding for our transport network.

 

[Deepgreen]

The seeming jingo-ism of the livery, whether intended or not, is a shame. It is already being called the 'GB News' livery, with all the negative connotations that has. I don't support the idea that liveries should be garish and colourful (that was played out to the death with privatisation) - they should be dignified, elegant and command respect for the railway. For all its failings, the GWR livery base is good, and a dark base allows the various demarcations such as first class stripes to be applied and actually stand out as they are aupposed to. A livery should, fundamentally, be practical and allow easy interpretation by passengers of the facilities being provided/marked.

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I hate to be negative but seriously what is the point of the new (awful) branding if it's going to retain the same area names anyway?

I hope that Richard parker here in the west midlands gets his way and retains the West Midlands branding for our transport network.

(Re-)Nationalisation is supposed to provide a national, unified network - local liveries/branding undermine that - for example, why do people in the West Midlands need to be told that their train is in the West Midlands?

 

[Farigiraf]

(Re-)Nationalisation is supposed to provide a national, unified network - local liveries/branding undermine that - for example, why do people in the West Midlands need to be told that their train is in the West Midlands?

Every single GBR train having the same livery creates more confusion than cohesion.
WMR is an established identity that utilises the TfWM branding, getting rid of it and making every train in Birmingham New Street covered in Union Jacks is counterintuitive. There aren't many (if any) countries with a nationalised rail network equal to or larger than the UK network that has the same livery on every train. It's good to know what train serves roughly which set of services without knowing all about rolling stock types.

 

[Ian Hardy]

SWR's "Vomit Comet" (701006) came past my flat about an hour ago, it is going to take a long time for me to like the new GBR livery, it is garish and as for the GBR brand and name, it is typical marketing bxxxxxks, only a politician would come up with something like that.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Every single GBR train having the same livery creates more confusion than cohesion.
WMR is an established identity that utilises the TfWM branding, getting rid of it and making every train in Birmingham New Street covered in Union Jacks is counterintuitive. There aren't many (if any) countries with a nationalised rail network equal to or larger than the UK network that has the same livery on every train. It's good to know what train serves roughly which set of services without knowing all about rolling stock types.

I would think that a 730/0 in West Midlands livery might confuse someone at Euston looking for a Tring train. That's the problem with line-specific liveries, makes efficient inter-use problematic.