West Midlands Trains "Destination Manchester" - will it happen?

[tfw756rider]

Seems like driver training paths have been added from Crewe to Manchester Airport from next week

Realtime Trains | Departures from Manchester Airport all day on 02/03/2026

Train information at Manchester Airport all day on 02/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

with Class 323 timing loads!

timing load is meaningless

Well, there must be some meaning behind the Class 323 timing load (rather than 350, or even just electric multiple unit?)

My guess is that the 323s could have a slightly slower timing than a 350, so there is a template there to be used with minimal work - and if it is a slightly slower timing then that is all to the good as you would expect drivers on route-learning to accelerating and braking more cautiously and going a bit slower overall than the units are actually capable of.

That would make sense @AndrewE, thanks

 

[The Planner]

You don't generally create new running times specifically for test runs. You use something thats going to be a right side failure.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I know - that's because West Midlands Trains is the Train Operating Company (TOC) of both of those brands (although that's not consistent with Realtime Trains splitting Govia Thameslink Railway into its 4 brands).


Well, there must be some meaning behind the Class 323 timing load (rather than 350, or even just electric multiple unit?)

Traksy often, if not always, has 323 timings for the 350 work. No idea why.

The training runs are 100% 350s as nobody at Crewe signs 323s and 350s will be working the route anyway.

Looking to train either 2 or 4 drivers up per week given there is now over 90 drivers at Crewe. Wolves drivers start learning via Stoke after May, Crewe to Airport pencilled for after December.

 

[lowe1409]

Seems like driver training paths have been added from Crewe to Manchester Airport from next week

Realtime Trains | Departures from Manchester Airport all day on 02/03/2026

Train information at Manchester Airport all day on 02/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Explains why I've noticed the xx.36 Blackpool arrivals to the airport using p1 instead of p4.

 

[Bevan Price]

I know - that's because West Midlands Trains is the Train Operating Company (TOC) of both of those brands (although that's not consistent with Realtime Trains splitting Govia Thameslink Railway into its 4 brands).


Well, there must be some meaning behind the Class 323 timing load (rather than 350, or even just electric multiple unit?)

My checks with GPS show that Classes 323 & 350 have almost identical acceleration rates from a standing start; the only difference is that 323s are limited to 90 mph; but 350s can do up to 110 mph.

 

[CJ]

Seems like driver training paths have been added from Crewe to Manchester Airport from next week

Realtime Trains | Departures from Manchester Airport all day on 02/03/2026

Train information at Manchester Airport all day on 02/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

And it looks like a test ran yesterday, only one circuit, from Crewe - Manchester Airport and back:

Realtime Trains | 5H03 0924 Crewe to Manchester Airport | 05/03/2026

Real-time train running information for 5H03 0924 departure from Crewe to Manchester Airport on 05/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5K04 1035 Manchester Airport to Crewe | 05/03/2026

Real-time train running information for 5K04 1035 departure from Manchester Airport to Crewe on 05/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[PM_ME_DnB_]

It was adding that erratic-ness to the not-very-resilient south WCML slows (as well as bringing Rugeley and whatever the other place was in as well) that messed it up. The Crewe service is largely separate (as it runs fast line the whole way) and Manchester Victoria isn't that much of a problem compared to Castlefield so I think it would be OK in that sense, the main concern I would have is overcrowding which would mean cranking the fares up, so I think overall it would be bad.

Going back to the Euston-Crewe-Manchester Victoria proposal, sorry but what’s the blocker for an extension from Crewe via Warrington BQ and Earlestown/Newton-Le-Willows?

As that pathing is electrified and avoids Castlefield and the WCML crossing by Crewe (although the crossing near Earlestown may be an issue)

 

[Rail Ranger]

I think capacity at Manchester Victoria is the main showstopper. The station is so busy these days. There is nowhere for a 10-coach train to lay over.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There is nowhere for a 10-coach train to lay over.

not that a double 730/2 could fit there anyway - the longest is platform 3 at 254 metres, short of the 260 needed for a 10*26m consist.

Edit: as pointed out below, 730s have 24m carriages, not 26m carriages, so would fit in Platform 3, but only platform 3.

 

[jp4712]

not that a double 730/2 could fit there anyway - the longest is platform 3 at 254 metres, short of the 260 needed for a 10*26m consist.

How ironic, given that Victoria platform 11 was once the longest in the world...

 

[Rail Ranger]

Selective door opening?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2026 ==

Wikipedia says the class 730 coaches are 24 metres long making 240 metres for a 10-car train.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Wikipedia says the class 730 coaches are 24 metres long making 240 metres for a 10-car train.

yep, I was wrong, I was thinking about Hereford where a long train does hang over the end of a terminus so had 26 metre carriages in mind instead of the 24 metre carraiges of 730s.


I think I recall it being said anyway that they planned to split a 730/2 pair at Crewe and send only 1 set to Manchester.

 

[PM_ME_DnB_]

Selective door opening?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2026 ==

Wikipedia says the class 730 coaches are 24 metres long making 240 metres for a 10-car train.

And to solve the layover problem, I wonder how feasible it would be to extend platform 3 westward (by 2-300m) to create space for a double 730/2?

I’m not sure if platform 3 also ran the length of the former Exchange station, but hopefully reinstating something to that effect wouldn’t be too difficult in the grand scheme of things

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the plan was that only 5 coaches would go to Vic with the other 5 coming off at Crewe and heading south with the next train.

 

[Bald Rick]

Going back to the Euston-Crewe-Manchester Victoria proposal, sorry but what’s the blocker for an extension from Crewe via Warrington BQ and Earlestown/Newton-Le-Willows?

As that pathing is electrified and avoids Castlefield and the WCML crossing by Crewe (although the crossing near Earlestown may be an issue)

Power supply notth of Crewe, and no paths. Other than that all good.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Well there'd be a need for lots of investment then if the Parkside intermodal depot plan ever happens. Where's the problem with pathing? Winsford station to Weaver Junction?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It seems rather strange that Birmingham has a large airport and a railway station that recognises that, should want a rail service to Manchester Airport.

 

[The Planner]

Well there'd be a need for lots of investment then if the Parkside intermodal depot plan ever happens. Where's the problem with pathing? Winsford station to Weaver Junction?

No, what will happen is that the third party will take a risk on development for FOCs to have paths rejected. Winsford Weaver is the issue capacity wise.

 

[Watershed]

It seems rather strange that Birmingham has a large airport and a railway station that recognises that, should want a rail service to Manchester Airport.

I can hardly imagine many people would be using it all the way from Birmingham to Manchester Airport. Taking the fast WMT/Avanti or XC services to Crewe or Piccadilly (respectively) and changing would be much quicker.

It'd be more attractive from Wolverhampton and beyond (after the Tame Bridge 'detour'), since the time saved by changing would be reduced - you are 'only' taking the detour via Stoke.

Manchester Airport is a much more significant airport than Birmingham though. Manchester has flights to around 200 destinations whilst Birmingham only has 130, plus the frequencies are generally much better at Manchester.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has there been any comment upon the matter of this thread from Mayor Burnham who seems to be the power-driver of his "Burnham Rail" current pet project?

 

[Stossgebet]

Let's not forget about the presence of the 'National' Exhibition Centre, at Birmingham International.

 

[Rail Ranger]

One option which would get round the issues of power supply and pathing north of Crewe would be for LNwR to only run one train per hour between Birmingham and Liverpool and to use the path of the other one for the Euston to Manchester Victoria service.

 

[AndrewE]

One option which would get round the issues of power supply and pathing north of Crewe would be for LNwR to only run one train per hour between Birmingham and Liverpool and to use the path of the other one for the Euston to Manchester Victoria service.

but the Liverpool-Brum services are well-used and even at half-hourly quite a lot of them really need strengthening now. Reducing back to once an hour (which I think was left behind pre-Covid) would be a really retrograde step.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Could make an hourly Birmingham-Liverpool a 10-car.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Could make an hourly Birmingham-Liverpool a 10-car.

No thank you! This would be a massive retrograde move from the status quo.

 

[The Planner]

Could make an hourly Birmingham-Liverpool a 10-car.

It needs 2tph.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Of course if Cross Country were to again serve Liverpool.....

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Could make an hourly Birmingham-Liverpool a 10-car.

Some days it could really do with an 8 car 2tph!

Sound like you have a solution and looking for a problem to use it on tbh.

The real solution is obviously to beef up the power supply and to 4 track through winsford etc. Keeping stopping services and freight off through lines could release quite a bit of capacity no?

 

[Rail Ranger]

Beefing up the power supply would probably be much much cheaper than any four tracking between Winsford station and Weaver Junction, which would be difficult and very expensive. Hence why it was never done in the past.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Apr 2026 ==

If an hourly path were to be provided to and from the Parkside container terminal it sounds like there would be a need to withdraw an existing hourly service.

 

[The Planner]

Of course if Cross Country were to again serve Liverpool.....

With 5 car Voyagers? Where is the benefit of that?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Apr 2026 ==

If an hourly path were to be provided to and from the Parkside container terminal it sounds like there would be a need to withdraw an existing hourly service.

Which isn't proven at all, and under the decision criteria, might not pass muster either.