Greens propose abolishing first class on ScotRail trains

[Bletchleyite]

They do. Just not ones aimed at younger people or Family and Friends.

The 16-25 is valid to discount First Advance tickets, just not walk up fares. All Railcards can have their tickets upgraded using Seatfrog or Weekend First/Standard Premium.

 

[Transilien]

They do. Just not ones aimed at younger people or Family and Friends.

Why is that?

 

[Harpo]

The politics of envy always gets in the way of meaningful discussion about FC. The real issue is surely the inadequate standard class provision?

 

[AlterEgo]

Why is that?

As @Bletchleyite says it's just on the walkups, something I missed in the original post - but one assumes it's classic British snobbery. I travel first class all the time and wouldn't object to families or young people using the space. I think they're turning away good money out of spite.

 

[Transilien]

As @Bletchleyite says it's just on the walkups, something I missed in the original post - but one assumes it's classic British snobbery. I travel first class all the time and wouldn't object to families or young people using the space. I think they're turning away good money out of spite.

That’s really silly. First Class needs to be used! On the IC7s often First class is empty, while standard is almost full and standing. IMO first class should be cheaper but without catering.

 

[mmh]

That’s really silly. First Class needs to be used! On the IC7s often First class is empty, while standard is almost full and standing. IMO first class should be cheaper but without catering.

Meanwhile in another thread we'll have people saying they no longer bother with first class as it's too busy and they end up sitting next to someone.

 

[Snow1964]

If six first class seats (2+1) take the same space as eight standard class (2+2) then the required break even mark up is 33%, not 50%.

That is only looking at it widthways, the seat pitch is also more generous so get more legroom, and often bit of recline too.

 

[Transilien]

Meanwhile in another thread we'll have people saying they no longer bother with first class as it's too busy and they end up sitting next to someone.

At least it’s actually being used though. The railway is always getting busier, first class being better used allows for trains to have their actual capacity used which is more important that being able to get a seat to yourself. Something that should be avoided though is making first class the same standard of comfort as standard à la all Electostars other than the 379s

 

[Mag_seven]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere - but I was reading the Scottish Greens manifesto, and something I’ve not seen reported elsewhere is that they plan to abolish first class on all ScotRail services.

I thought we didn't want politicians "micromanaging the railway"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

As @Bletchleyite says it's just on the walkups, something I missed in the original post - but one assumes it's classic British snobbery. I travel first class all the time and wouldn't object to families or young people using the space. I think they're turning away good money out of spite.

Probably worth its own thread...replied here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/should-all-railcards-discount-first-class.301238/

 

[GusB]

As a green voter, it's not a policy that I entirely agree with. I think there should be a first class (or "premium") option on the longer intercity services, but I really don't see the point in having it on the Edinburgh and Glasgow express services. The West Highland Line should have first-class provision as well.

Sadly a separatist one, which is one reason why I won't vote for them.

It isn't a topic for this thread, so feel free to reply elsewhere if you wish to discuss the matter further, but it needs to be pointed out that the Green party that you'd vote for is not "separatist". The Scottish Greens and the Green Party of England and Wales are entirely separate parties; the former is certainly pro-independence, while the latter has a policy of simply supporting whatever decisions are made in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - it's not quite the same.

 

[yorksrob]

As a green voter, it's not a policy that I entirely agree with. I think there should be a first class (or "premium") option on the longer intercity services, but I really don't see the point in having it on the Edinburgh and Glasgow express services. The West Highland Line should have first-class provision as well.


It isn't a topic for this thread, so feel free to reply elsewhere if you wish to discuss the matter further, but it needs to be pointed out that the Green party that you'd vote for is not "separatist". The Scottish Greens and the Green Party of England and Wales are entirely separate parties; the former is certainly pro-independence, while the latter has a policy of simply supporting whatever decisions are made in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - it's not quite the same.

It is a bedfellow which provides tacit support, so I can't be supporting it.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

This is all symptomatic of the way politics in this country now seems to be based on ideology as opposed to practicality.

I dont believe the figure about 98% of seats being empty. Personally I’m a bit agnostic about first - it does seem to be reaching the point in certain areas where it creates more issues than it solves (for example the way AWC have just one half carriage at times, or the way it contributes to overcrowding on Voyagers).

But I’m not sure this is the political motivation here, it feels like another example of “the population can’t have anything nice”, which seems to be the toxic attitude which pervades British politics on all sides of the spectrum at the moment. So because of this I’m sceptical. It’s regrettable we can’t have more of what we saw in the 90s on operators like Chiltern or Connex where the objective seems to have been to specify a decent train all-round, which made first somewhat genuinely superfluous.

I feel sorry for younger people that the future seems to be “stuff you, you can’t have something”, rather than trying to make genuine improvements. No wonder there’s so much cynicism.

Well said.

On ex-Southern metals, first class seems completely pointless. Thameslink’s standard class is barely nice to travel in, so having a weird door that doesn’t fully close to separate the first class compartment from the rest of the carriage seems completely pointless. Southern on some trains, don’t even have a physical partition from their first class compartment which also offers the luxury of seats that have their back to the window!

SWR seem to have the best first class on the southern system, although rendered somewhat pointless by the lack of catering

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Apr 2026 ==

As a green voter, it's not a policy that I entirely agree with. I think there should be a first class (or "premium") option on the longer intercity services, but I really don't see the point in having it on the Edinburgh and Glasgow express services. The West Highland Line should have first-class provision as well.


It isn't a topic for this thread, so feel free to reply elsewhere if you wish to discuss the matter further, but it needs to be pointed out that the Green party that you'd vote for is not "separatist". The Scottish Greens and the Green Party of England and Wales are entirely separate parties; the former is certainly pro-independence, while the latter has a policy of simply supporting whatever decisions are made in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - it's not quite the same.

That doesn’t matter, Zack Polanski is of course a back door-English nationalist because of his approval of breaking up the union.

 

[yorksrob]

Well said.

On ex-Southern metals, first class seems completely pointless. Thameslink’s standard class is barely nice to travel in, so having a weird door that doesn’t fully close to separate the first class compartment from the rest of the carriage seems completely pointless. Southern on some trains, don’t even have a physical partition from their first class compartment which also offers the luxury of seats that have their back to the window!

SWR seem to have the best first class on the southern system, although rendered somewhat pointless by the lack of catering

I note that on South Eastern first class has gone - can't say as I've noticed - presumably no one else did either since the compartment carriages went.

On TPE though, I still occasionally have reason to upgrade due to crowding, so it has its use for me personally there.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

It is a bedfellow which provides tacit support, so I can't be supporting it.

I note that on South Eastern first class has gone - can't say as I've noticed - presumably no one else did either since the compartment carriages went.

On TPE though, I still occasionally have reason to upgrade due to crowding, so it has its use for me personally there.

I did TPE first class the other day, the full English, whilst a bit too small, was hands down the best food catering I can remember on British railways. A huge difference from the weird Romanian croissant offered on East Midlands Trains. Not a “snack box” in sight

 

[yorksrob]

I did TPE first class the other day, the full English, whilst a bit too small, was hands down the best food catering I can remember on British railways. A huge difference from the weird Romanian croissant offered on East Midlands Trains. Not a “snack box” in sight

Ah, you see, for me East Midlands will forever be a lovely meal on crockery with cutlery on the IC 125. Nowt fancy, but excellent value in comfort.