Could the 701/5s go elsewhere?

[westcoaster]

701/5 driver training starts in April. Time to stop with the “will they go elsewhere” wibble

Curious why you'd need specific training on a 5 car variant.

No specific training given for 8 or 12 car 700's. And when we drove 377's we drove many different variants, again no training difference

 

[D365]

Curious why you'd need specific training on a 5 car variant.

No specific training given for 8 or 12 car 700's. And when we drove 377's we drove many different variants, again no training difference

None of the Class 700s operate in multiple... the Class 701/5s will.

 

[Snow1964]

More chance of there being a need to Wibble about where 458s could go imo.

If SWR has a stock surplus 458s are an obvious microfleet to get rid of especially as it does not do anything the 450s cannot do. But, also, I think the 450s are relied upon for quite high usage iirc so could ease off there, how true is that still ?.

The 159 fleet is a smaller micro fleet than 458 (and older)

Should a newer, bigger fleet be first to exit door on basis of surplus. In theory yes, apart from the problem of wrong form of fuel

 

[stevieinselby]

It always seems curious to me that Southern has no dedicated metro trains at all, whereas Southeastern already has the high density 376s and inherited 707s. Indeed it is a quirk that Thameslink service to the coast have way more standing space than Southern 377/6s operating south London metro style routes.

Southern did have forty-odd class 455s, which were their metro fleet operating most suburban services – but then a coincidence of timing meant that they were hitting retirement age at the same point that Southern were reducing provision for a post-Covid world with fewer commuters, and so they were able to stretch the 377 fleet to cover the withdrawal of the 455s without needing to replace them. As they have needed to bring back a bit more capacity in the years since, it has made more sense to transfer in various flavours of Electrostars rather than getting a new microfleet.

 

[Mikey C]

Southern did have forty-odd class 455s, which were their metro fleet operating most suburban services – but then a coincidence of timing meant that they were hitting retirement age at the same point that Southern were reducing provision for a post-Covid world with fewer commuters, and so they were able to stretch the 377 fleet to cover the withdrawal of the 455s without needing to replace them. As they have needed to bring back a bit more capacity in the years since, it has made more sense to transfer in various flavours of Electrostars rather than getting a new microfleet.

You'd expect different stock on metro routes though than the 377s, which are outer suburban units. After all nobody would suggest replacing the Southeastern Networkers on the inner London routes with displaced 375s or 377s

 

[stevieinselby]

You'd expect different stock on metro routes though than the 377s, which are outer suburban units. After all nobody would suggest replacing the Southeastern Networkers on the inner London routes with displaced 375s or 377s

Are the 377s unsuitable for those routes in some way? They might be slightly over-specced for them, but if the trains are not needed elsewhere then why not use them on their local services? Southeastern have never been in a position where they had surplus capacity in the 375 fleet and elderly suburban trains that needed to be binned. On the other hand, South Western do deploy 450s on inner suburban services alongside the dedicated metro fleets and have done since they were new.

I think Southern also has a smaller proportion of its trains used on suburban routes than either Southeastern or South Western, so another reason why they might not have wanted to get new vehicles in that weren't standard with the rest of the fleet.

 

[Snow1964]

Southern did have forty-odd class 455s, which were their metro fleet operating most suburban services – but then a coincidence of timing meant that they were hitting retirement age at the same point that Southern were reducing provision for a post-Covid world with fewer commuters, and so they were able to stretch the 377 fleet to cover the withdrawal of the 455s without needing to replace them. As they have needed to bring back a bit more capacity in the years since, it has made more sense to transfer in various flavours of Electrostars rather than getting a new microfleet.

Didn't Southern also withdraw the 313s used on coastway services about the same time, so they lost nearer 200 vehicles.

Some shuffling of 375, 377 with South Eastern took place, and there have been some 387s moved (from GWR and Great Northern), so Southern have already regained some of the losses.

However unless GBR sticks to rigid pre-nationalisation boundaries and workings, in theory there is no reason why services to places like Dorking or Horsham (from Victoria) couldn't switch to 701s if it helped balance out stock so other units can move to where extra capacity is required.

 

[JonathanH]

However unless GBR sticks to rigid pre-nationalisation boundaries and workings, in theory there is no reason why services to places like Dorking or Horsham (from Victoria) couldn't switch to 701s if it helped balance out stock so other units can move to where extra capacity is required.

I can think of plenty of obstacles, staff training, stabling, conflicts about one traincrew establishment gaining work from another, different working practices with the same stock on the same routes.