Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
There is the argument that the £3 rate doesn't pay well, but they didn't have to be part of it and if it is causing quality to decline then they should simply pull out. There is the argument that the £3 fare cap saved rural parts of the 840, but to be honest if it's not paying well why bother keeping it as it is? North Yorkshire Council can easily step in to keep some links going, such as Goathland to Whitby, but is there really a need to have a regular daily bus service from Whitby, Sleights and Gothland to Pickering, Malton etc? Pickering yesterday was practically dead, I suspect that's the case Monday to Friday during the off season except maybe on a market day. Maybe Transdev should pull out from the £3 fare cap, see how things go, then cut routes what don't bring in the money (e.g. run the 840 from Leeds to Thornton Dale extending to Whitby during busier times as Thornton Dale to Goathland outside of the peak season doesn't bring in trade so it's reliant on locals) and have local councils put together some links that are viable such as Gaothland to Whitby, but not all. Yes you will see the headlines saying links severed, Whitby cut off etc, but in reality it won't be because there is the bus/train via Middlesborough which is my preferred method, or via Scarborough.
The problem is that they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
If they pull out of the fares cap and go back to commercial fares, they will haemorrhage fare-paying passengers – people just won't be willing to pay £20 for a return ticket on the bus, not when everyone else is charging £6.
So in the context of the fares cap existing and being applied by the vast majority of other operators in the area, even if it doesn't fully compensate them for the fares lost, they could well still be better off in than out.
Its a bit of assumption blaming damage on school children.
Yesterday Whitbys we worked by two B5s and three B9s. With reference to the B9 being a 62 plate I take it was the 0900 from Leeds worked by 2427, the other B9s being 11 reg 2421 on the 1100 and 63 reg 2773 on the 1310. All are listed as having dual purpose seating on the WYIS fleetlist rather than bus seating. Bus seating is listed as being fitted to all of single deckers at York except dual pupose B7RLEs 1867 and 1871.
Its a bit of assumption blaming damage on school children.
Yesterday Whitbys we worked by two B5s and three B9s. With reference to the B9 being a 62 plate I take it was the 0900 from Leeds worked by 2427, the other B9s being 11 reg 2421 on the 1100 and 63 reg 2773 on the 1310. All are listed as having dual purpose seating on the WYIS fleetlist rather than bus seating. Bus seating is listed as being fitted to all of single deckers at York except dual pupose B7RLEs 1867 and 1871.
I'm sure these buses worked over at Rosso on school runs, and it's always so called bored kids that damage buses. I wouldn't call the seats dual purpose, a B5 seat is dual purpose where as these are just ordinary worn out seats with no comfort what so ever, although some of the B5 seats are getting worn too to be fair.
The problem with the 840 Whitby to Leeds is that it's far too long a route and not really effective for getting people where they need to go unless you are a tourist or an OAP. Transdev or another company need to register a new service from Whitby to York Railway Station. This could be hourly or every two hours in line with other tendered routes in rural areas and perhaps get funding from North Yorkshire Council and for those wanting to get to leeds, they can either connect with the 843 or get the train from york/Scarborough. The extension as it stands now is not fit for purpose and not sustainable and needs axing. The funding freed from not having all the variation in the new timetable could be used to improve services between Leeds and York which used to be better.
The same could be said for other 'scenic routes' such as the 555 Keswick to Lancaster. This should be replaced by a standard service between Lancaster and Kendal via central lakes and a seperate service between Keswick and Kendal which is normally the busier part of the route. During the summer, they should introduce an end to end route via the m6 the complement the split regular service. It's strange to think that it's been decades since a regular service between Lancaster and Kendal has existed because the operators have been hellbent on maintaining the super long journey. To tie this in with Whitby, when routes get too long that it effects reliability, this causes route to be withdrawn or kept but not as something regular people can build their lives around. Especially given that the York/Whitby section is infrequent.
Its a bit of assumption blaming damage on school children.
Yesterday Whitbys we worked by two B5s and three B9s. With reference to the B9 being a 62 plate I take it was the 0900 from Leeds worked by 2427, the other B9s being 11 reg 2421 on the 1100 and 63 reg 2773 on the 1310. All are listed as having dual purpose seating on the WYIS fleetlist rather than bus seating. Bus seating is listed as being fitted to all of single deckers at York except dual pupose B7RLEs 1867 and 1871.
I travelled on 2421 from Hawes back to York last year (roughly 3 hours 45 minutes) and with a quick toilet break in Grassington, didn't find the journey uncomfortable whatsoever, although I am Young.
I'm sure these buses worked over at Rosso on school runs, and it's always so called bored kids that damage buses. I wouldn't call the seats dual purpose, a B5 seat is dual purpose where as these are just ordinary worn out seats with no comfort what so ever, although some of the B5 seats are getting worn too to be fair.
Most of the B9s at Coastliner started their life at Coastliner. If history off of Bustimes is anything to go by, then they've primarily been at Coastliner, Burnley and Harrogate, with some work at Rosso. 2423 spent a couple months at Flyer on school services though. I wouldn't necessarily say it's school kids, but rather years of service work.
The problem with the 840 Whitby to Leeds is that it's far too long a route and not really effective for getting people where they need to go unless you are a tourist or an OAP. Transdev or another company need to register a new service from Whitby to York Railway Station. This could be hourly or every two hours in line with other tendered routes in rural areas and perhaps get funding from North Yorkshire Council and for those wanting to get to leeds, they can either connect with the 843 or get the train from york/Scarborough. The extension as it stands now is not fit for purpose and not sustainable and needs axing. The funding freed from not having all the variation in the new timetable could be used to improve services between Leeds and York which used to be better.
The same could be said for other 'scenic routes' around the country such as the 555 Keswick to Lancaster. This would be better if replaced by a standard service between Lancaster and Kendal via central lakes and a seperate service between Keswick and Kendal which is normally the busier part of the route. During the summer, they should introduce an end to end route via the m6 to complement the split regular service. It's strange to think that it's been decades since a regular service between Lancaster and Kendal has existed because the operators have been hellbent on maintaining the super long journey.
To tie this in with Transdev's Whitby extension, when routes get too long that it effects reliability or isn't passing many densely populated areas to make it sustainable, this causes route to be withdrawn or kept but not as something regular people can build their lives around. Especially given that the York/Whitby section is infrequent.
I wouldn't call the seats dual purpose, a B5 seat is dual purpose where as these are just ordinary worn out seats with no comfort what so ever, although some of the B5 seats are getting worn too to be fair.
There is the argument that the £3 rate doesn't pay well, but they didn't have to be part of it and if it is causing quality to decline then they should simply pull out. There is the argument that the £3 fare cap saved rural parts of the 840, but to be honest if it's not paying well why bother keeping it as it is? North Yorkshire Council can easily step in to keep some links going, such as Goathland to Whitby, but is there really a need to have a regular daily bus service from Whitby, Sleights and Gothland to Pickering, Malton etc? Pickering yesterday was practically dead, I suspect that's the case Monday to Friday during the off season except maybe on a market day. Maybe Transdev should pull out from the £3 fare cap, see how things go, then cut routes what don't bring in the money (e.g. run the 840 from Leeds to Thornton Dale extending to Whitby during busier times as Thornton Dale to Goathland outside of the peak season doesn't bring in trade so it's reliant on locals) and have local councils put together some links that are viable such as Gaothland to Whitby, but not all. Yes you will see the headlines saying links severed, Whitby cut off etc, but in reality it won't be because there is the bus/train via Middlesborough which is my preferred method, or via Scarborough.
The problem with the 840 Whitby to Leeds is that it's far too long a route and not really effective for getting people where they need to go unless you are a tourist or an OAP. Transdev or another company need to register a new service from Whitby to York Railway Station. This could be hourly or every two hours in line with other tendered routes in rural areas and perhaps get funding from North Yorkshire Council and for those wanting to get to leeds, they can either connect with the 843 or get the train from york/Scarborough. The extension as it stands now is not fit for purpose and not sustainable and needs axing. The funding freed from not having all the variation in the new timetable could be used to improve services between Leeds and York which used to be better.
If anyone thinks that North Yorkshire Council is going to suddenly pop up with a load of funding for some additional journeys, you really need to stop smoking that stuff. Hourly... Two Hourly... Even in the halcyon days of bus operation, it was barely more than a handful of journeys and certainly not outside the summer months. It's only suitable for pensioners and tourists... That's the actual customer base. It trundles across the moors and there's precious few chimney pots. From the 1980 winter timetable (92) - 3 journeys from Whitby to Malton plus two short Whitby to Goathland runs (for Whitby schools and whatever workers existed); Pickering to Malton was two hourly and connected with the Scarborough to Leeds service. Summer services were 7 per day from Malton to Whitby....but you were on a Bristol LH which makes a Gemini seem space age.
Coastliner were to bypass Goathland completely a few years ago (2017? 2018?) because the ENCTS remuneration from NYCC (as it was) was so derisory; by making it an express, they could charge commercial fares. It was only when NYCC realised that the cost of an extra service to/from Goathland would be more that they came to a compromise with Transdev.
NYC has barely the money to pay for the paltry offerings it provides - most town services in the market towns are using welfare vehicles outside of schools work. The network is trimmed back to incredible levels.
And if you think that pensioners will be paying train fares to Middlesbrough or Scarborough and then getting the bus to Whitby... they won't. In fact, aside from the occasional goth, they'll just go to Scarborough and stuff Heartbeat!
What 99 bus? Do you mean the 96 bus from Grosmont to Whitby? That would mean an extra 7 mile divert to serve Goathland, and would cause problems for the driver to get his legal break in.
It's because of this that NYCC backed down before.
The problem with the 840 Whitby to Leeds is that it's far too long a route and not really effective for getting people where they need to go unless you are a tourist or an OAP. Transdev or another company need to register a new service from Whitby to York Railway Station.
They can, but pretty much nobody does.
If you're travelling from Whitby/Pickering to York/Leeds, you have about a 35–40 minute at Malton for the train, which means they arrive into York station at the same time, and it's only quicker on the train if you are staying on to Leeds, where it saves you about 45 minutes ... but that is at the cost of an extra train ticket on top of your bus ticket, which seems to have a floor of about £12 for an advance single, up to £30 for an off-peak return. So unless your onward journey beyond Leeds is by train a/o you have a priv pass or some other free or extremely cheap train tickets, most people won't count that as a price worth paying. And if you force people to use the train by severing the bus route and connections, all that happens is the number of visitors to Whitby drops, the number of passengers on the 840 drops and the number of people driving over the A169 goes up.
Nasty incident in Harrogate yesterday around 1730 - eCitaro 1015 on a Knaresborough bound 1A collided with a pedestrian. Photos show the bus where you would expect on a road. It has not been used today.
They can, but pretty much nobody does.
If you're travelling from Whitby/Pickering to York/Leeds, you have about a 35–40 minute at Malton for the train, which means they arrive into York station at the same time, and it's only quicker on the train if you are staying on to Leeds, where it saves you about 45 minutes ... but that is at the cost of an extra train ticket on top of your bus ticket, which seems to have a floor of about £12 for an advance single, up to £30 for an off-peak return. So unless your onward journey beyond Leeds is by train a/o you have a priv pass or some other free or extremely cheap train tickets, most people won't count that as a price worth paying. And if you force people to use the train by severing the bus route and connections, all that happens is the number of visitors to Whitby drops, the number of passengers on the 840 drops and the number of people driving over the A169 goes up.
Add in as well that weekend and some weekday trains between Leeds and York are heavily disrupted due to engineering works meaning an even longer train journey. You can even add in disruption when the network goes wrong for other reasons, a recent bridge strike at Stalybridge, coupled with rail replacement buses between Micklefield and York meant I was stuck with the indirect York service via Harrogate!
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Paul Turner says on Facebook that the new E200 MMCs at Blackburn are expected to enter service early next month, so will have 26-plates instead of 75-plates. He also confirms that 514-517 will carry 'The Blackburn Bus Company' livery and the rest will be branded for the 464.
2105 failed again on the 59 today - this time at Bolton Abbey. One of the eCitaros was sent to rescue the passengers with other Scanias being use on the rest of the 59s.
Spring is nearly here, and we’re looking forward to Easter! As always, we want to make sure you can get to where you need to be over the long weekend, so please take note of a few changes to our buses during the Easter Bank Holiday period.
Friday 3 April – Buses will run to our Saturday timetable
Saturday 4 April – Buses will run to a normal Saturday timetable
Sunday 5 April – Buses will run to a normal Sunday timetable
Monday 6 April – Buses will run to Sunday times
From Tuesday 7 April, all services will return to our normal timetable.
Nothing about it on the Harrogate page but I doubt it, same with DalesBus 74 which also gets no mention. I'd keep my eyes peeled on the DalesBus website.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Regarding Summer DalesBus services, Transdev are running the following services:
Sundays & Bank Holidays from 5th April: 825 - York to Richmond via Harrogate, Brimham Rocks, Fountains Abbey, Masham and Leyburn 864 - Bradford to Malham via Ilkley and Skipton (year round) 866 - Keighley to Malham via Skipton 873 - Ilkley to Skipton via Bolton Abbey (year round) 875 - York to Hawes via Leeds, Ilkley, Grassington, Kettlewell, Buckden and Aysgarth
Sundays & Bank Holidays from 3rd May: 820 - Bradford to Ripon via Otley, Washburn Valley, Pateley Bridge and Fountains Abbey 821 - Keighley to Scar House via Otley, Washburn Valley, Pateley Bridge and Lofthouse
Additionally, there will be minor changes to Saturday DalesBus services.
From 29th March: There is a new timetable for the 59 - Harrogate to Skipton via Bolton Abbey.
From 4th April: There is a new timetable for the 74 - York to Grassington via Harrogate, Otley, Ilkley, Bolton Abbey and Burnsall.
Nothing about it on the Harrogate page but I doubt it, same with DalesBus 74 which also gets no mention. I'd keep my eyes peeled on the DalesBus website.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Regarding Summer DalesBus services, Transdev are running the following services:
Sundays & Bank Holidays from 5th April: 825 - York to Richmond via Harrogate, Brimham Rocks, Fountains Abbey, Masham and Leyburn 864 - Bradford to Malham via Ilkley and Skipton (year round) 866 - Keighley to Malham via Skipton 873 - Ilkley to Skipton via Bolton Abbey (year round) 875 - York to Hawes via Leeds, Ilkley, Grassington, Kettlewell, Buckden and Aysgarth
Sundays & Bank Holidays from 3rd May: 820 - Bradford to Ripon via Otley, Washburn Valley, Pateley Bridge and Fountains Abbey 821 - Keighley to Scar House via Otley, Washburn Valley, Pateley Bridge and Lofthouse
Additionally, there will be minor changes to Saturday DalesBus services.
From 29th March: There is a new timetable for the 59 - Harrogate to Skipton via Bolton Abbey.
From 4th April: There is a new timetable for the 74 - York to Grassington via Harrogate, Otley, Ilkley, Bolton Abbey and Burnsall.
Typically over Christmas when a Saturday timetable is in operation on weekdays, the 59 & 74 does not operate, so would imagine it will be the same story for Good Friday
Transdev has amended the Easter running times to highlight that the 59 & 74 will not run on Good Friday:
Spring is nearly here, and we’re looking forward to Easter! As always, we want to make sure you can get to where you need to be over the long weekend, so please take note of a few changes to our buses during the Easter Bank Holiday period.
Friday 3 April – Buses will run to our Saturday timetable, except the 59 and 74 will not run Saturday 4 April – Buses will run to a normal Saturday timetable Sunday 5 April – Buses will run to a normal Sunday timetable Monday 6 April – Buses will run to Sunday times
From Tuesday 7 April, all services will return to our normal timetable.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Burnley service changes from 29 March:
From 29 March, we’re introducing some new timetables on our buses in and around Burnley to help improve reliability. We know that our timekeeping is the most important thing to you, and this change will help with that.
On the 7 & the 8, there will be changes to improve reliability. We’ll also serve Pennine Road on Sundays with the 8.
On Mainline, there will be changes all through the week, plus the 07.40am M2 from Burnley to Clitheroe will now extend to the Grammar School to give additional capacity alongside the 07.25am from Burnley.
Due to a contract change by Lancashire County Council, the 2 will no longer run beyond Nelson to Barrowford and Colne. There will be other timetable changes on the 2 and the 2A to ensure we are running as reliably as possible for you.
Finally, we’ll be changing the timetable on the 111, 121 and 123 to improve reliability.
New timetables will be available to download shortly.
Lancashire County Council has tendered Vision Bus to run service 68 between Nelson & Colne, replacing the 2 with Transdev. Timetables will be coordinated to offer through connections between the 68 and 2.
Lancashire County Council has tendered Vision Bus to run service 68 between Nelson & Colne, replacing the 2 with Transdev. Timetables will be coordinated to offer through connections between the 68 and 2.
I can't see the 2 lasting very long once Transdev give up the Nelson - Higherford section. It's the only direct link to a sizeable village, despite it being relatively close to Nelson. The 2 that remains basically follows the same route as a number of existing services that already link Burnley and Nelson.
Despite a coordinated timetable, and I believe through-tickets are available, passengers aren't really keen on connections!
I can't see the 2 lasting very long once Transdev give up the Nelson - Higherford section. It's the only direct link to a sizeable village, despite it being relatively close to Nelson. The 2 that remains basically follows the same route as a number of existing services that already link Burnley and Nelson.
Despite a coordinated timetable, and I believe through-tickets are available, passengers aren't really keen on connections!
Technically they didn't give it up, the section north of Nelson is supported by Lancashire County Council, it was retendered as the contract was up for renewal and Vision were successful. The rest of the 2/2A is commercial.
Technically they didn't give it up, the section north of Nelson is supported by Lancashire County Council, it was retendered as the contract was up for renewal and Vision were successful. The rest of the 2/2A is commercial.
Was the Nelson - Higherford section always a subsidised service, going back to the pre-Ribble County days? I know there was some S21 funding for evening journeys thanks to the housing developments - though the funding for which ran out before the houses were even built.
Was the Nelson - Higherford section always a subsidised service, going back to the pre-Ribble County days? I know there was some S21 funding for evening journeys thanks to the housing developments - though the funding for which ran out before the houses were even built.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
