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TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains
- Thread starter Bob Price
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Now, I've heard of DOO and DCO, but DDO is a new one for me. What does that stand for; Driver Driver Operation?
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Driver Door Operation/Open/Opening?
Kite159
Veteran Member
Considering it's under a title "Door Op Mode" then something like Driver Door Operation makes sense
VR494
Member
That was off the wire with VCB in open and pantograph down. No power applied, just the lights etc running. It will decrease when power is applied, there is a small portion of the battery in reserve, however the 398 will enter a mode with a restricted speed in this. Once this is gone, it's flat. There is a plan being drawn up so that in the event of any major delay on the network, these will need to be all held at platforms and units shut down. If the battery goes off the wire, a rescue of one is going to be a very tricky procedure. It may require 2 addional units to assist from the front and rear.
It stands for Driver Door Operation, driver open and close.
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Is that any different to Driver Controlled Operation (DCO, essentially DOO but always with a guard), or is it just TfW wanting their own acronym?
VR494
Member
The railway is full of acronyms, but this is how it is depicted on the unit from manufacture.
Whether DCO or DDO it's how each TOC defines the understanding of these. DCO and DDO can be either open only, or close and open.
chargesmith
Member
Pretty similar to what happened to me once when there was major disruption a few years ago - we stopped at Radyr for around 40 minutes with the doors open etc. This was with the 150s and I think they also shut down the engines so they weren't wasting diesel.
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That's a good question. I've come across electric cars that do their charge readings based on either a full discharge, or off a smaller "usable capacity" with a reserve buffer you can use in an emergency that isn't shown in the official range calculation.
In a car it makes more sense to do this to "idiot-proof" it, less so in a train where you always have professional drivers who are trained on exactly how the unit works.
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Sonyman66
Member
398031 ran 3Q13 10.39 Aberdare to Taffs Well Depot test train today caught me by surprise at Taffs Well.
VR494
Member
As far as I’m aware, they are still having trouble running in multiple. They really don’t like it. A software update might be needed to address this, however this involves cost per unit. Other issues such as some units taking on water through the roof as well means they are unable to run in heavy rain.
Looking at the current situation with the project overall, unless there is a major injection of capital you could be very much looking at 2028 at the earliest to see these.
The company has very limited funds available. The mainline is currently seeing a daily shortage of units due to ongoing repairs as well.
It’s all good running one unit, that maybe the only working one in the yard, but if it fails nothing can rescue it.
In the meantime crews are sitting ready for training, but unfortunately no one knows what the course is going to look like either.
I don't think there's any settled view on what DCO actually is. Northern called it DCO but the plan - long abandoned - was to run most trains without conductors.
ExRes
Established Member
Not sure if it's been mentioned, RailAdventure 0845 6F36 Kings Norton OTPD to Old Dalby & 1355 6Q37 return are scheduled for tomorrow then 1000 6Q38 to Pengam Sidings on Thursday
Why would TFW announce they will introduce units by spring this year then?
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Realtime Trains | 6F36 0845 Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept to Old Dalby | 11/02/2026
Real-time train running information for 6F36 0845 departure from Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept to Old Dalby on 11/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 6Q38 1000 Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept to Pengam Sidings | 12/02/2026
Real-time train running information for 6Q38 1000 departure from Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept to Pengam Sidings on 12/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 6M39 1545 Pengam Sidings to Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept | 12/02/2026
Real-time train running information for 6M39 1545 departure from Pengam Sidings to Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept on 12/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 3Q99 1814 Pengam Reception Sdgs Gbrf to Taffs Well Depot | 12/02/2026
Real-time train running information for 3Q99 1814 departure from Pengam Reception Sdgs Gbrf to Taffs Well Depot on 12/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
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Does anyone in here know whether the 398 drag will be by HST power cars, or by 20s?
crosscity
Member
The 20's arrived back at Kings Norton Yard this afternoon after spending the last week dragging new Tyne & Wear Metro light rail units from Dollands Moor (at the UK end of the Channel Tunnel) to Pelaw, Newcastle. I think this augers well for their use with the 398 (398032?). Fingers crossed!Realtime Trains | 6F36 0845 Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept to Old Dalby | 11/02/2026
Real-time train running information for 6F36 0845 departure from Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept to Old Dalby on 11/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.Realtime Trains | 6Q38 1000 Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept to Pengam Sidings | 12/02/2026
Real-time train running information for 6Q38 1000 departure from Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept to Pengam Sidings on 12/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.Realtime Trains | 6M39 1545 Pengam Sidings to Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept | 12/02/2026
Real-time train running information for 6M39 1545 departure from Pengam Sidings to Kings Norton Ot Plant Dept on 12/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.Realtime Trains | 3Q99 1814 Pengam Reception Sdgs Gbrf to Taffs Well Depot | 12/02/2026
Real-time train running information for 3Q99 1814 departure from Pengam Reception Sdgs Gbrf to Taffs Well Depot on 12/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
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Does anyone in here know whether the 398 drag will be by HST power cars, or by 20s?
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Ah thanks, yes indeed!
VR494
Member
It’s not going to happen I’m afraid.
Maybe spring 2027 would be a better target to work with, with a full introduction from December 2028.
Looking at the situation with actual numbers, that’s more realistic.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Your contributions to this site are very much appreciated, and I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but why are upper Transport for Wales saying Spring 2026 if it's not going to happen then?
Are they doing that thing where they say Spring 2026, then "push it back" to late 2026, then "push it back" again to Spring 2027, because they don't want to just say "Spring 2027" in early 2026?
VR494
Member
Yes, I’m afraid expect a bit more of that to come.
And there’s no chance of putting any 153’s on the Rhymney line to cover shortages because they’ve taken the competency off all the CVL crew.
And whatever the next parliament decide to do in terms of funding, might be a big longer again.
Incase you didn’t know TFW actually stands for “Thank you for waiting”.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Well that's just silly - what are they afraid might happen if they just say "Spring 2027" for the start of 398 entry-to-service in early 2026?
This is the same company that said "September 2026" in November 2025 for the start of 197 Cambrian entry-to-service (10-month difference),
so why can't they at least say "late 2026" in early 2026 for the start of 398 entry-to-service? It would still be wrong, but not as wrong as saying "Spring 2026".
6opher
Member
- Joined
- 4 Jul 2016
- Messages
- 47
Where are you getting all your info and photos from?
Are you part of a team that does all the door testing as you’ve mentioned things about that previously?
Must be in some sort of loop if talking about contingency plans for if/when there’s major delays.
2 units to rescue 1 though? Is this fact or are you just listening to rumours as don’t see why you would need 2? That just sounds silly and would cause much longer delays than needed.
Regarding this post, how do you know nobody knows what the driver training course will look like? Find that hard to believe. Surely TfW have some sort of training plan in the works?
VR494
Member
You have to be realistic, unfortunately those running the show are currently campaigning for votes to stay in parliament. That’s all the latest press releases were about. To get publicity from people that they have delivered on the promise of 4 trains per hours. That’s not happening either by the way. The signalling cannot take 4 trains per hour.
It’s important to remember that tfw is not effectively a TOC anymore. The budget has to cover a lot more than the costs of staff, fleet and maintenance etc.
If they wanted a metro they should have either gone for a fleet of trains similar to the 777’s, or ripped out the system completely and gone for a full light rail service with a fleet of trams.
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
So they're actually lying? If so, that's not good... And why did they "promise" 4 trains per hour if the signalling can't take it?
Such as?
None of this sounds good...
But no, they wanted to be "innovative"
Cambrian359
Member
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 302
Since day 1 TFW and welsh government have very much had form for announcing things which look and sound good but then repeatedly and quietly slip by. How many VIP visits have there been to the tram train depot because of their imminent launch….then nothing.
There was the big press announcement a couple of years ago stating the 175 fleet was coming back into service after being withdrawn for safety checks, when realty most of them never did as they were being stood down for hand back,blatant lies.
Announce then re announce 6 months later…and repeat, disastrous elections are upon them they need some very positive spin right now.
I find it slightly hard to believe that someone who seems to be obviously internal to TfW would make these claims on a public forum. Some of the detail on here, if true, would almost certainly count as bringing into disrepute so either naïve, brave, stupid or perhaps Chinese whispers from someone else.
Given how poor industrial relations have been on our railways over the last decade any politician promising a state of the art metro replacing conventionally operated DMU services devoid of any strikes or disputes along the way as they did in Wales would always likely face notable limitations on what was achievable.
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chargesmith
Member
398023 is out this morning on test. Couldn't see if it was on its own or in formation with another unit.
whoosh
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Sep 2008
- Messages
- 1,884
I bet that push/pull DRA gets changed for a twist one! Right next to the door open button is asking for trouble!
chargesmith
Member
The announcements now are likely down to the timing of the election cycle.
As a public body I suspect TFW are not allowed to make any announcements a few months before the election that could influence how people could vote (I think it's called the purdah period at a UK level).
So even if the units magically entered service before early May I don't think they could even acknowledge it.
As a public body I suspect TFW are not allowed to make any announcements a few months before the election that could influence how people could vote (I think it's called the purdah period at a UK level).
So even if the units magically entered service before early May I don't think they could even acknowledge it.