West Yorkshire bus franchising

[tomoufc]

The Upper Calder Valley is a really interesting area. First obviously only have their Todmorden parking ground and don't know if that will be taken on by WYCA. Even were it to be retained by First, not certain how you'd operate a permit operation.

It is predominantly the Skipton and Todmorden areas where you have these challenges - less so on the Eastern margins.

Thanks for your help with this. I think an FOI request might be in order.

 

[Simon75]

Doesn't First have 2 garages on Halifax? Could they say keep one and sell another?

 

[Steve440]

Doesn't First have 2 garages on Halifax? Could they say keep one and sell another?

First only have the one in Halifax now, but they do have an open yard in Todmorden.

 

[tomoufc]

By the way, is anyone here on the West Yorkshire Transport Forum? I tried to join a couple of days ago, but the mods haven’t approved my request yet. Username- todtom. Might anyone be able to give them a nudge? They don’t appear to have a way to contact them if you’re not already a member. Cheers.

 

[Steve440]

Update regarding electrification of Huddersfield and Bradford depots:

https://westyorkshire.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s43179/Item7Appendix2ZEBRABusReformDepotsBusinessCaseSummary.docx.pdf

The outcomes for the Bradford and Huddersfield Bus Depots are: • The upgraded depots will have the capacity to support 115 electric buses at Huddersfield Bus Depot and 160 electric buses at Bradford Bus Depot, reducing reliance on diesel buses and contributing to improved air quality in the surrounding areas. • Enhanced operational capacity for electric fleet charging, supporting depot electrification. • Improved energy distribution through strategically placed transformers and feeder panels. • Optimised space utilisation by integrating charging infrastructure into existing yard and landscaped areas. • Scalable charging solution with overhead gantries and ground-mounted dispensers to meet future demand. • Compliance with sustainability targets, reducing carbon emissions and supporting zero-emission bus operations – in particular in Bradford to tackle air quality issues in relation to bus-based infringements in the Clean Air Zone. The EVI charging infrastructure investment will facilitate future fleet electrification, ensuring compliance with nitrogen dioxide (NO₂) reduction targets and supporting regional decarbonisation goals. • Improved reliability and resilience of the charging network through multiple connection points and feeder panels.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Not sure where to put this, but I think it relates to the upcoming franchising in West Yorkshire. WYCA has approved £6.5 Million for 33 new vehicles for Access Bus.

The West Yorkshire dial-a-ride access buses provide door-to-door transport to support the needs of older, disabled and vulnerable passengers.

The fleet makes around 6,000 trips each week and has around 6,700 registered users, but the current vehicles have been described as being past their "anticipated operational life".

At a meeting of West Yorkshire Combined Authority, funding of £6.5m was approved for for 33 ultra-low emission buses to replace the existing models.

Access bus vehicles have low floors and an internal layout that provides more space for wheelchairs and other mobility equipment than a standard bus.

Rachel Jones, head of mobility services, said: "It is a very popular service, and is constantly close to capacity.

"The existing fleet is well beyond its operational life, with more issues with the vehicles that are having an impact on the services we can provide.

"We need to review the fleet in its entirety."

Only a handful of the buses will be electric, with many being low emission diesel, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

A report to members said a fully electric fleet would prove too costly, adding: "The aim is to trial the effectiveness of electric buses in operation, with a view to future vehicle replacements being fully electric."

Funding approved to replace ageing access buses in West Yorkshire

The buses provide door-to-door transport for older, disabled and vulnerable passengers.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[GatwickDepress]

That's good news. I've used the service in Leeds a couple of times and the Solo that turned up (a 2007 model, I think) sounded like an asthmatic horse ratting itself to bits.

 

[geoffk]

Before moving to Devon, I lived for some years in both Todmorden and Littleborough, so would have had an interest in cross-boundary services in this area. I see that 590 Halifax - Rochdale is now only hourly, whereas it was always half-hourly during my time there. It will be for West Yorkshire to take the lead in improving this service (if they wish to do so) and, if it's not part of a franchise, as is being suggested above, what are the options? WY could decide to break the route at Todmorden, so that the busier Calder Valley section falls within the franchising regime. There seems to be a danger that Todmorden - Rochdale could "fall between the cracks", other than in respect of ticketing and information. The same would apply to 592 Halifax - Burnley, except that the section in Lancashire will remain commercial as there is no franchising there.

 

[Deerfold]

Before moving to Devon, I lived for some years in both Todmorden and Littleborough, so would have had an interest in cross-boundary services in this area. I see that 590 Halifax - Rochdale is now only hourly, whereas it was always half-hourly during my time there. It will be for West Yorkshire to take the lead in improving this service (if they wish to do so) and, if it's not part of a franchise, as is being suggested above, what are the options? WY could decide to break the route at Todmorden, so that the busier Calder Valley section falls within the franchising regime. There seems to be a danger that Todmorden - Rochdale could "fall between the cracks", other than in respect of ticketing and information. The same would apply to 592 Halifax - Burnley, except that the section in Lancashire will remain commercial as there is no franchising there.

The 590 was only briefly half hourly between Rochdale and Halifax. Prior to that it was hourly with an hourly 589 Littleborough - Todmorden - Burnley service.
First have massively downgraded the 59x routes.
The 590 no longer runs to/from Halifax in an evening with poor connections. There's no direct service on Sunday mornings from Halifax.
Going from Burnley to Halifax there's gaps of up to 3 hours in direct services (4.5 hours on a Sunday).
There used to be hourly direct services with the 589 connecting hourly at Todmorden with services to Halifax in addition.

 

[geoffk]

The 590 was only briefly half hourly between Rochdale and Halifax. Prior to that it was hourly with an hourly 589 Littleborough - Todmorden - Burnley service.
First have massively downgraded the 59x routes.
The 590 no longer runs to/from Halifax in an evening with poor connections. There's no direct service on Sunday mornings from Halifax.
Going from Burnley to Halifax there's gaps of up to 3 hours in direct services (4.5 hours on a Sunday).
There used to be hourly direct services with the 589 connecting hourly at Todmorden with services to Halifax in addition.

Yes, I remember 589 and 590 and these together provided a half-hourly service between Todmorden and Rochdale. Having checked the current timetables, I see that there are four buses an hour from Halifax as far as Mytholm turning circle, just past Hebden Bridge, where two an hour terminate as 592, and then two an hour to Todmorden, where they go their separate ways to Rochdale (590) and Burnley (591). Does this mean the entire service 590/1/2 is going to be treated as cross-boundary and therefore excluded from a franchise? This is a main trunk route and too important to be left out, surely.

 

[adam rogan]

Yes, I remember 589 and 590 and these together provided a half-hourly service between Todmorden and Rochdale. Having checked the current timetables, I see that there are four buses an hour from Halifax as far as Mytholm turning circle, just past Hebden Bridge, where two an hour terminate as 592, and then two an hour to Todmorden, where they go their separate ways to Rochdale (590) and Burnley (591). Does this mean the entire service 590/1/2 is going to be treated as cross-boundary and therefore excluded from a franchise? This is a main trunk route and too important to be left out, surely.

The 590 between Halifax and Rochdale was every half an hour during the day end to end as recently as 2023 as I used to use it on my way back from Leeds and had late trips in both directions for a long time, in line with it's former manifestation the 528 which ran through Ripponden and only after the Bee Network came in did First start to reduce frequencies and flip flop between maintaining the link between Todmorden and Rochdale and then deciding that they would reinstate the end to end journey which is now a shell of it's former self.

The 591/592 to Burnley also had a decent timetable, with a combined frequency of at least every 30 minutes in the common section during the day with one going through cliviger and the other through walk mill if I recall but now the 592 only runs to Todmorden and the 591's timetable is quite shocking with a three hour gap in it's return journey from Burnley in the evening forcing you to change at Todmorden with some awkward timing if you wanted to connect with the 590 back into Halifax.

The only winners are Team Penine as their tendered 587 route from Halifax to Rochdale was always faster and has quite healthy loadings, though it's quite funny as Rochdale passengers who don't know the difference between Anybus or Bee bus will try and board with their Bee Bus tickets and after the ticket reader rejects the ticket a few times, drivers just beckon them on which I presume will have an impact on revenue. The route competes with the Bee Network Littleborough circular buses for passengers as it doesn't go on a detour around the houses.

West Yorkshire transport has worked with Travel South Yorkshire and reintroduced the evening and Sunday bus Link between Wakefield and Barnsley and they both continue to fund the two routes from Barnsley to Pontefract(28 and 38) and have shown that their willingness to try and restore bus connections between the different parts of Yorkshire. Whether they will apply this philosophy with routes heading into Lancashire and Greater Manchester, it's possible that they will take over and improve these formerly frequent routes but I can't imagine them axing them alltogether if that's what you meant as it's unlikely the other transport authorities picking them up or they being run commercially on a permit basis but Transdev may want to branch out as they already have a presence in the Calder Valley and in the Bee Network's area currently.

Does this mean the entire service 590/1/2 is going to be treated as cross-boundary and therefore excluded from a franchise? This is a main trunk route and too important to be left out, surely.

If the weaver network will still allow commercial routes to operate within it's boundaries which I assume is what you are referring to, I think they'll realize that it's simply not going to be as neat as simply taking over all the routes which operate from a West Yorkshire depot and allowing permits for routes from outside sch as the Burnley to Keighley route for example as the Bee Network and Liverpool's franchising were forced to do.

 

[4cryingoutloud]

The only winners are Team Penine as their tendered 587 route from Halifax to Rochdale was always faster and has quite healthy loadings, though it's quite funny as Rochdale passengers who don't know the difference between Anybus or Bee bus will try and board with their Bee Bus tickets and after the ticket reader rejects the ticket a few times, drivers just beckon them on which I presume will have an impact on revenue.

There is effectively no difference in validity between AnyBus and Bee Bus period tickets, so these should scan on the 587 within Greater Manchester - indeed it's a requirement for cross-boundary permit routes. What won't scan however are hopper tickets.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

There is effectively no difference in validity between AnyBus and Bee Bus period tickets, so these should scan on the 587 within Greater Manchester - indeed it's a requirement for cross-boundary permit routes. What won't scan however are hopper tickets.

Within Greater Manchester acceptance is identical, the validity outside GM is different and passengers do struggle to understand the difference as it isn't clearly explained and the prices are similar. You do see issues around Glossop/New Mills for instance where one is valid on all buses but the other only on Bee Network buses.

 

[Goldfish62]

Within Greater Manchester acceptance is identical, the validity outside GM is different and passengers do struggle to understand the difference as it isn't clearly explained and the prices are similar. You do see issues around Glossop/New Mills for instance where one is valid on all buses but the other only on Bee Network buses.

The distinction really is not clear! I had to ask a contact at TfGM for clarification, but even then the difference seems so subtle I doubt if the majority of passengers would understand.

 

[adam rogan]

There is effectively no difference in validity between AnyBus and Bee Bus period tickets, so these should scan on the 587 within Greater Manchester - indeed it's a requirement for cross-boundary permit routes. What won't scan however are hopper tickets.

Anybus dayrider tickets can be used on any bus within Greater Manchester including non bee network routes within the boundary and also in some outlying areas such as Bacup, Glossop, Hadfield and New Mills and can only be bought by cash on bus including non bee network buses but most of the time you will need to tell the driver it's Anybus you want and not Bee Bus though the price is the same. The weekly and monthly can be bought at any Paypoint or at the Travel Centre but not on the app.The map can be found on the System One website. The only buses that operates within greater manchester whose ticketer machines have not been upgraded to sell them is the Preston bus 311 Ormskirk to Chorley via Standish or the 110 Wigan to Preston when they enter the boundary as these are Lancashire County Council tenders but the pass will work on them if pre-paid. Non bee network buses will only sell anybus so you don't need to tell them which one you want but on Bee network buses, you will have to point it out to drivers.

Bee Bus tickets can be bought on the bus or on the app but can only be used to board Bee Network buses but will not work on non bee network buses from outside the franchising area. So will not work on Arriva, Transdev or First from Halifax or any other external operator.The plus side is you can board bee buses with these tickets outside of Greater Manchester. So you can use the Bee bus tickets from Huddersfield on 184, the 100 from Warrington or the 632 from Chorley to give an example. Most drivers don't know the difference so I always used to point this out to drivers and to passengers whose tickets weren't scanning. Hopper tickets will only work on bee network buses. Really confusing. I learnt this through trial and error when I lived in Greater Manchester.

 

[4cryingoutloud]

Within Greater Manchester acceptance is identical, the validity outside GM is different and passengers do struggle to understand the difference as it isn't clearly explained and the prices are similar. You do see issues around Glossop/New Mills for instance where one is valid on all buses but the other only on Bee Network buses.

I realise my mistake here is that I didn't clarify that I was talking specifically about acceptance within GM. There is no "SELNEC"* area of acceptance on the 587, both ticket types are valid up to the WY boundary only.

* 1969 South East Lancashire North East Cheshire Passenger Transport Executive, the precursor to the creation of Greater Manchester in 1974

 

[Deerfold]

The 590 between Halifax and Rochdale was every half an hour during the day end to end as recently as 2023 as I used to use it on my way back from Leeds and had late trips in both directions for a long time, in line with it's former manifestation the 528 which ran through Ripponden and only after the Bee Network came in did First start to reduce frequencies and flip flop between maintaining the link between Todmorden and Rochdale and then deciding that they would reinstate the end to end journey which is now a shell of it's former self.

The 591/592 to Burnley also had a decent timetable, with a combined frequency of at least every 30 minutes in the common section during the day with one going through cliviger and the other through walk mill if I recall but now the 592 only runs to Todmorden and the 591's timetable is quite shocking with a three hour gap in it's return journey from Burnley in the evening forcing you to change at Todmorden with some awkward timing if you wanted to connect with the 590 back into Halifax.

The only winners are Team Penine as their tendered 587 route from Halifax to Rochdale was always faster and has quite healthy loadings, though it's quite funny as Rochdale passengers who don't know the difference between Anybus or Bee bus will try and board with their Bee Bus tickets and after the ticket reader rejects the ticket a few times, drivers just beckon them on which I presume will have an impact on revenue. The route competes with the Bee Network Littleborough circular buses for passengers as it doesn't go on a detour around the houses.

West Yorkshire transport has worked with Travel South Yorkshire and reintroduced the evening and Sunday bus Link between Wakefield and Barnsley and they both continue to fund the two routes from Barnsley to Pontefract(28 and 38) and have shown that their willingness to try and restore bus connections between the different parts of Yorkshire. Whether they will apply this philosophy with routes heading into Lancashire and Greater Manchester, it's possible that they will take over and improve these formerly frequent routes but I can't imagine them axing them alltogether if that's what you meant as it's unlikely the other transport authorities picking them up or they being run commercially on a permit basis but Transdev may want to branch out as they already have a presence in the Calder Valley and in the Bee Network's area currently.

If the weaver network will still allow commercial routes to operate within it's boundaries which I assume is what you are referring to, I think they'll realize that it's simply not going to be as neat as simply taking over all the routes which operate from a West Yorkshire depot and allowing permits for routes from outside sch as the Burnley to Keighley route for example as the Bee Network and Liverpool's franchising were forced to do.

I would point out the 528 was a precursor to the current 587 (having been the X58 in between those two, the 527/8 before that, the 567/8 before that, the 527/8 before that (again) and right back to the 8 Leeds to Rochdale).
It used to run hourly (with one early 564 running to and from Littleborough) until 2250 from Rochdale (2150 from Halifax with a 2250 running to Ripponden) including on Sundays.

Historically Metro and South Yorkshire worked together much more than either with Greater Manchester. You used to be able to buy a combined MetroCard and TravelMaster (bus only) valid in both counties, but more than half the connecting buses no longer run.

 

[adam rogan]

I would point out the 528 was a precursor to the current 587 (having been the X58 in between those two, the 527/8 before that, the 567/8 before that, the 527/8 before that (again) and right back to the 8 Leeds to Rochdale).
It used to run hourly (with one early 564 running to and from Littleborough) until 2250 from Rochdale (2150 from Halifax with a 2250 running to Ripponden) including on Sundays.

I see. My mistake. What I was referring to was late running buses between Halifax and Rochdale being quite common at different periods of time under different route numbers for so long and on the dawn of the Bee Network, that vanished. Perhaps the route could not compete with the railway line. I do hope that cross border routes are strengthened and restored but I doubt that will happen organically.

 

[geoffk]

Historically Metro and South Yorkshire worked together much more than either with Greater Manchester. You used to be able to buy a combined MetroCard and TravelMaster (bus only) valid in both counties, but more than half the connecting buses no longer run.

There are only three daily routes now between West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester - the 587 and 590 Halifax - Rochdale and 184 Oldham - Huddersfield, the latter part of Bee Network. (If I'm going to be pedantic, I could add 900/901 Hebden Bridge - Huddersfield, which just edges into Gtr Manchester for a few yards up on t'moors by Blackstone Edge reservoir). There's also two weekly services run by Holmfirth-based South Pennine Community Transport, to Ashton and Uppermill, which are unlikely to fit into any franchise regime. The service between Oldham and Halifax was cut back to Denshaw (from Oldham) and Rishworth (from Halifax) some years ago. In contrast to the others, which run across a lot of moorland, the 590 is in a built-up area for nearly all of its route and should ideally remain in its present form.

 

[Deerfold]

I see. My mistake. What I was referring to was late running buses between Halifax and Rochdale being quite common at different periods of time under different route numbers for so long and on the dawn of the Bee Network, that vanished. Perhaps the route could not compete with the railway line. I do hope that cross border routes are strengthened and restored but I doubt that will happen organically.

Indeed. The X58 lost its late evening service shortly after being renumbered to that, the 590 a lot more recently.

I grew up in Ripponden with 2 buses an hour over the border, being able to return from Rochdale at 2250 and around 2230 from Oldham on the 562. I worked in Chadderton for a summer. The whole area there has been devastated buswise going from 3bph (2bph evenings and Sundays) regularly spaced along the main road to 1bph and 1 every 120 minutes with massive evening gaps and a last bus from Halifax 2.5 hrs earlier and no Sunday evening service at all

 

[Ballyheigue]

If the Bee ticket and Any bus are the same price, why on earth doesn't Andy work together with neighbouring West Yorkshire and Merseyside authorities (he may struggle with Lancashire though) to have one brand name for West Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside and hopefully Lancashire (Bee ticket seems fine enough a name to me for all 3 as it's easy to remember etc) with validity throughout? All this confusion between ticket names and validity just annoys people when a driver/passenger gets confused and asks for or issues the wrong one! Before anyone bleats on about price, keep the existing price the same in each area, just name it one name and ensure the QR code works in all 3 operating areas. Oh and before someone bleats on about local identity for the ticket name, people aren't that bothered, just call it one name, that's all that matters. This country is just so frustrating when it comes to simplicity, there's always some fool who puts a block in the way for petty reasons.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If the Bee ticket and Any bus are the same price, why on earth doesn't Andy work together with neighbouring West Yorkshire and Merseyside authorities (he may struggle with Lancashire though) to have one brand name for West Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside and hopefully Lancashire (Bee ticket seems fine enough a name to me for all 3 as it's easy to remember etc) with validity throughout? All this confusion between ticket names and validity just annoys people when a driver/passenger gets confused and asks for or issues the wrong one! Before anyone bleats on about price, keep the existing price the same in each area, just name it one name and ensure the QR code works in all 3 operating areas. Oh and before someone bleats on about local identity for the ticket name, people aren't that bothered, just call it one name, that's all that matters. This country is just so frustrating when it comes to simplicity, there's always some fool who puts a block in the way for petty reasons.

Well, it probably is due to revenue apportionment. Who gets the money from the sale vs the usage.

 

[Ballyheigue]

Well, it probably is due to revenue apportionment. Who gets the money from the sale vs the usage.

Easy really, an equal split based on current sales of West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA), Transport for Greater Manchester and what ever equivalents are in Merseyside/Lancashire. Basically just replace all of them with one product priced at current prices in what ever area you buy them in. In West Yorkshire for example, keep all the zones the same, prices the same, the only difference will be the name and extended validity into Greater Manchester/Merseyside/Lancashire. Now there is the headache of First moaning that their products will be worthless, but very soon they'll be no more anyway in West Yorkshire, and I doubt First will pull out of accepting WYCA products given their part of the ticketing company. Trouble is those in power make things too complicated to work, when deep down they know it's easy to do, passenger first!

 

[Deerfold]

Easy really, an equal split based on current sales of West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA), Transport for Greater Manchester and what ever equivalents are in Merseyside/Lancashire. Basically just replace all of them with one product priced at current prices in what ever area you buy them in. In West Yorkshire for example, keep all the zones the same, prices the same, the only difference will be the name and extended validity into Greater Manchester/Merseyside/Lancashire. Now there is the headache of First moaning that their products will be worthless, but very soon they'll be no more anyway in West Yorkshire, and I doubt First will pull out of accepting WYCA products given their part of the ticketing company. Trouble is those in power make things too complicated to work, when deep down they know it's easy to do, passenger first!

First's ticket used to be very useful when it covered West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester in the late 90s - I used to go out in Manchester on a couple of buses from Ripponden and back the next morning with the bonus that after a little sleep I could use the ticket in the afternoon, too. Even then they wouldn't accept the ticket on the short run on the X84 in North Yorkshire (which I suspect reduced its attractiveness).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Easy really, an equal split based on current sales of West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA), Transport for Greater Manchester and what ever equivalents are in Merseyside/Lancashire. Basically just replace all of them with one product priced at current prices in what ever area you buy them in. In West Yorkshire for example, keep all the zones the same, prices the same, the only difference will be the name and extended validity into Greater Manchester/Merseyside/Lancashire. Now there is the headache of First moaning that their products will be worthless, but very soon they'll be no more anyway in West Yorkshire, and I doubt First will pull out of accepting WYCA products given their part of the ticketing company. Trouble is those in power make things too complicated to work, when deep down they know it's easy to do, passenger first!

I think you've misinterpreted my point. It's the difference between where it is sold and where it is used, not the price differential! It is probably more likely that you'd have ones sold in Lancashire (so they get the revenue) and being used for travel in Greater Manchester (so they incur the "cost") rather than the other way round. I'm sure when we're at work, we don't mind someone else getting a bit of our pay? I am joking but you get the point?

I love a trip out and multi-operator tickets are very useful for enthusiasts but how much are they to the general public especially when we're thinking of a ticket whose validity would be from Southport to Dinnington? That's why the more common approach is to have tickets that are valid within a county and for those journeys that begin/finish/via said county. This has been the practice for the last 35+ years in Wiltshire where the ticket is valid within the county, and for services to Bath, Frome, Yate and even Southampton (though some destinations are excluded). It's the same with NECA day tickets where they're valid from Co Durham to/from Darlington, Stockton and Hartlepool, and the reverse with Tees Valley tickets.

 

[adam rogan]

I love a trip out and multi-operator tickets are very useful for enthusiasts but how much are they to the general public especially when we're thinking of a ticket whose validity would be from Southport to Dinnington? That's why the more common approach is to have tickets that are valid within a county and for those journeys that begin/finish/via said county.

Having a common ticket for the North is doable as Germany which is far larger than Britain has the Deutschland Ticket which is a multi modal ticket which costs around 63 or so euros per month which allows you to travel on all public transport in the country whenever you want(Bar high speed trains). Yes we have the disadvantage of having had Thatcher's short sighted deregulation of the bus industry but now that this is slowly but surely being reversed in some areas, there should be some sort of co-ordination between the combined authorities who are taking back control to discuss ways of having a united itso backed ticketing system which allows people to cross boundaries and pool their resources together.

According to the BSIP documents, Lancashire is bringing out an Anybus multi operator ticketing system so will be interesting to see what the pricing will be in such a large county. South Yorkshire is also heading down the franchising road as well.

I think given how arbitrarily many of the boundaries of Counties/Boroughs were drawn, there will naturally be areas on the edges which will have more affinity with those across county lines. Key example, the Cities of Bradford, Leeds, Sheffield and Wakefield are bigger than Manchester by area due to having had many outlying districts added to it to make up for the population requirements of the 1972 boundary changes. There's a lot of movements between the northern counties even though there are lines drawn between them. If neighboring counties have bought into franchising and want transport to work for all their residents, it will be inevitable that once franchising reaps successes in all these areas as it largely has done in Greater Manchester, they will have to work together to create a unified fare scheme but it's a longshot this early.

 

[Deerfold]

Having a common ticket for the North is doable as Germany which is far larger than Britain has the Deutschland Ticket which is a multi modal ticket which costs around 63 or so euros per month which allows you to travel on all public transport in the country whenever you want(Bar high speed trains). Yes we have the disadvantage of having had Thatcher's short sighted deregulation of the bus industry but now that this is slowly but surely being reversed in some areas, there should be some sort of co-ordination between the combined authorities who are taking back control to discuss ways of having a united itso backed ticketing system which allows people to cross boundaries and pool their resources together.

According to the BSIP documents, Lancashire is bringing out an Anybus multi operator ticketing system so will be interesting to see what the pricing will be in such a large county. South Yorkshire is also heading down the franchising road as well.

I think given how arbitrarily many of the boundaries of Counties/Boroughs were drawn, there will naturally be areas on the edges which will have more affinity with those across county lines. Key example, the Cities of Bradford, Leeds, Sheffield and Wakefield are bigger than Manchester by area due to having had many outlying districts added to it to make up for the population requirements of the 1972 boundary changes. There's a lot of movements between the northern counties even though there are lines drawn between them. If neighboring counties have bought into franchising and want transport to work for all their residents, it will be inevitable that once franchising reaps successes in all these areas as it largely has done in Greater Manchester, they will have to work together to create a unified fare scheme but it's a longshot this early.

Indeed, I often go to see bands in a nearby town. When I was born it was in the same county as I live in, but now I travel through 3 counties to get there.
I'm generally looking forward to franchising, but am not sure if I'll benefit - two of the 4 routes past my house leave the county and it doesn't look like these will be franchised, but one is currently run from the same depot as all the local routes that don't leave the county.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Having a common ticket for the North is doable as Germany which is far larger than Britain has the Deutschland Ticket which is a multi modal ticket which costs around 63 or so euros per month which allows you to travel on all public transport in the country whenever you want

I would ask why we would need such a ticket in northern England (aside from enthusiasts?). Who realistically is travelling by bus from Liverpool to Leeds, or from Burnley to Barnsley?

Also, if re: comparing ourselves with Germany, there are so many differences in taxation and public spending that it's just one difference e.g. they have 7% tax on general foodstuffs whereas ours is 0%. Public transport is one benefit but there are drawbacks too.

 

[noddingdonkey]

A system based on being able to select which districts you want in a ticket nationwide would be much fairer than the current system based on arbitrary political boundaries.

Living in the western corner of West Yorkshire, I'm much more interested in journeys to Oldham, Rochdale, Manchester etc than Ilkey and Keighley. A system akin to the old telephone system where your area plus adjoining zones were considered local would be much more useful.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A system based on being able to select which districts you want in a ticket nationwide would be much fairer than the current system based on arbitrary political boundaries.

Living in the western corner of West Yorkshire, I'm much more interested in journeys to Oldham, Rochdale, Manchester etc than Ilkey and Keighley. A system akin to the old telephone system where your area plus adjoining zones were considered local would be much more useful.

Hence my earlier comment about how some counties actually get around that. It's entirely reasonable for someone in Halifax to want to travel to Rochdale but then travel to Bolton and then to Wigan? So yes, cross border acceptance to an obvious traffic objective would seem logical.