GTR do not travel 04/02/2026

[DelW]

Wow! That gives an indication of the strength of impact I suppose, but there can't be many train collisions where one just carries on, obvious to the fact! It was presumably an ECS working, and I wonder whether, had it been in service, anyone on board would have noticed if it involved looking up from their phones! The Control message must have been amusing - "did you know your train crashed a few miles back...?".

Slightly o/t, but it was reported in the thread on the recent high-speed derailment and collision in southern Spain, that the driver of the northbound train, when it came to a stand, contacted his control to report he was stopped because of a power failure. He was unaware that the last three vehicles of his train had derailed at high speed and been struck by the southbound train.

It's part of the second quote on this post (the link is to post 210, not what's shown in the precis):

Train derailment near Córdoba, Spain

I agree with @John Palmer on the location of the iryo bogie. I was looking at the Google satellite images of the area and the 'greenery' is masking the stream bed. There's a better view in OpenStreetMap's edit mode: the screenshot of the area, below, with a square marking the eastern end of the...

www.railforums.co.uk

At 19.45.02 the Iryo driver called the control centre to report that the train had come to a halt due to loss of power, suggesting that it had become entangled with the overhead wire. The vehicles had been ‘plunged into darkness’, implying that the onboard auxiliary batteries were not working. At this stage the driver did not realise that the rear vehicles had become derailed, or that a collision had occurred.

So it can happen, even in a very serious collision, although of course in this case the train was brought to a halt by the damage.

 

[greatkingrat]

I know they don't normally investigate depot derailments, but would the collision justify a RAIB report?

 

[NSE]

Wow! That gives an indication of the strength of impact I suppose, but there can't be many train collisions where one just carries on, obvious to the fact! It was presumably an ECS working, and I wonder whether, had it been in service, anyone on board would have noticed if it involved looking up from their phones! The Control message must have been amusing - "did you know your train crashed a few miles back...?".

Both were ECS

 

[z444z]

This has now been deleted, does anyone have another link?

 

[Deepgreen]

I know they don't normally investigate depot derailments, but would the collision justify a RAIB report?

Given the lack of damage and danger (the points did their job of keeping the mainline clear), I imagine it will be treated as a SPAD investigation (assuming that was the cause, of course).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Feb 2026 ==

Slightly o/t, but it was reported in the thread on the recent high-speed derailment and collision in southern Spain, that the driver of the northbound train, when it came to a stand, contacted his control to report he was stopped because of a power failure. He was unaware that the last three vehicles of his train had derailed at high speed and been struck by the southbound train.

It's part of the second quote on this post (the link is to post 210, not what's shown in the precis):

Train derailment near Córdoba, Spain

I agree with @John Palmer on the location of the iryo bogie. I was looking at the Google satellite images of the area and the 'greenery' is masking the stream bed. There's a better view in OpenStreetMap's edit mode: the screenshot of the area, below, with a square marking the eastern end of the...

www.railforums.co.uk

So it can happen, even in a very serious collision, although of course in this case the train was brought to a halt by the damage.

Yes, indeed so. I have also read of several freight train derailments in the US where the driver was unaware of the events over half a mile down the train until coming to a stand! I imagine it is much rarer in the UK though.

 

[CarrotPie]

Yes, indeed so. I have also read of several freight train derailments in the US where the driver was unaware of the events over half a mile down the train until coming to a stand! I imagine it is much rarer in the UK though.

The 2020 derailment at Wanstead Park involved a freight train where a couple of axles ran derailed for over 2 miles, damaging the track in the process. The Llangennech (2020) and Petteril Bridge Junction (2022) derailments involved wheels that had stopped rotating up to 55 miles before the eventually derailment, with nobody knowing about it until the derailment.

 

[NSEWonderer]

In the video going around there seems to be a Ground position light on the left-hand side view of the camera train, that is showing two diagonal white lights which indicate the signal is off.

However, there also seems to be a main aspect with an Associated position light and that signal looks on with no lights from the Associated position light. But what is confusing is the previous signal before this was a ground position light, again on the left and showing two whites.

Does Selhurst depot have a portion that goes GPL, Main aspect GPL? With a main aspect proceed Indication meaning you exit the depot vs an associated position light, meaning you continue along the depot?


Ground position light on left showing proceed with caution, two white lights diagonal.


What looks like a main aspect signal with an Associated position light, main aspect signal appears to be red, but the Associated Position signal is blank meaning the signal is on.

Ahead on the left, there is a ground position light showing two white lights (I believe it's actually for the other train)


Close up of the above ground position light, just before the collision.

 

[louis97]

Close up of the above ground postion light, just before the collision.

This signal does not apply to the train that derailed, it applies to the train on the other line. You can see the route indicator under it, it will be showing a G for Gullet Road, which is where the train on the other line went via to get off the depot.

 

[NaZzAtAzEr]

I know they don't normally investigate depot derailments, but would the collision justify a RAIB report?

RAIB did not attend this incident

 

[louis97]

What looks like a main aspect signal with an Associated postion light, main aspect signal appears to be red but the Associated Position signal is blank meaning the signal is on. Ahead on the left there is a ground postion light showing two white lights(i believe its actually for the other train)

This signal would only show a position light if going into an occupied platform at Norwood Junction, although don't know how often that is done. There isn't any route from it to remain on the depot.

 

[NSEWonderer]

This signal does not apply to the train that derailed, it applies to the train on the other line. You can see the route indicator under it, it will be showing a G for Gullet Road, which is where the train on the other line went via to get off the depot.

Yeah I mentioned in the brackets above that photo. It was more so to show a close up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2026 ==

This signal would only show a position light if going into an occupied platform at Norwood Junction, although don't know how often that is done. There isn't any route from it to remain on the depot.

Ah ok that makes sense. So then its an exit signal.

I do think an element of cross reading and confirmation bias may have occured(RAIB will ultimately investigate). Going from the first GPL which is as standard on the left to then the main aspect which is assumed to be showing danger, it isnt unheard of for humans to look for only what they expect to see already rather than what is actually there infront of them. If driver was aoley expecting to keep following GPls then that right hand side gpl before the points for the other line would have been the confirmation bias they needed to carry on, ignoring the main aspect.

Are there any other depots with main aspect inside what I'd consider the depot limits?

 

[Sunset route]

This signal would only show a position light if going into an occupied platform at Norwood Junction, although don't know how often that is done. There isn't any route from it to remain on the depot.

The Sub Signal on T10 signal only applies for moves towards the limit of shunt on the Down London Bridge fast line and not for any permissive moves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2026 ==

One unit SPAD signal T10 on the Norwood Fork Arrival, derailed on the catch points and in the process collided with the side of another coming out of the departure road / depot.

The train derailed off T1521 trap points and of note there are no catch points in the TBASC area of control and maybe not on the whole of the old Southern Region area, if what I’ve been told is correct on the latter point.

 

[louis97]

The Sub Signal on T10 signal only applies for moves towards the limit of shunt on the Down London Bridge fast line and not for any permissive moves.

Ah of course! I always forgot about that. Didn't think it was permissive, but missed the limit of shunt on the maps, so was the (incorrect) conclusion I came to.

 

[NSEWonderer]

The Sub Signal on T10 signal only applies for moves towards the limit of shunt on the Down London Bridge fast line and not for any permissive moves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2026 ==



The train derailed off T1521 trap points and of note there are no catch points in the TBASC area of control and maybe not on the whole of the old Southern Region area, if what I’ve been told is correct on the latter point.

Ah that explains, I did think it was quite far for that to be an Associated postion light for the platforms at norwood.

 

[Sunset route]

Ah of course! I always forgot about that. Didn't think it was permissive, but missed the limit of shunt on the maps, so was the (incorrect) conclusion I came to.

Ah that explains, I did think it was quite far for that to be an Associated postion light for the platforms at norwood.

The area involved, but note it does not show all the lines that are controlled solely by Selhurst Depot Control Panel.

 

[CarrotPie]

The train derailed off T1521 trap points and of note there are no catch points in the TBASC area of control and maybe not on the whole of the old Southern Region area, if what I’ve been told is correct on the latter point.

I seem to remember there's a catch point at the exit of Tonbridge Jubilee Sidings that another 377 derailed on a few years ago...but I don't have my map with my to check, so it might not be a catch point.

 

[NSEWonderer]

View attachment 197629

The area involved, but note it does not show all the lines that are controlled solely by Selhurst Depot Control Panel.

Ah now that makes sense. Explains quite a lot that map. Thanks.

Its interesting that number T10 signal is a main aspect signal but then S50 if im correct is the ground postion light that was illuminated white for the train traveling on the main stretch of track towards 1519 points. I just find it an odd mix especially as the next main aspect T10 could be guiding you to if I were to assume there isnt a route indicator would be T16 at norwood junction.

 

[Sunset route]

I seem to remember there's a catch point at the exit of Tonbridge Jubilee Sidings that another 377 derailed on a few years ago...but I don't have my map with my to check, so it might not be a catch point.

Remember that trap points are controlled and trap facing movements and catch points are often unworked an catch vehicles running away in the wrong direction so are more likely to be found on gradients.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2026 ==

Ah now that makes sense. Explains quite a lot that map. Thanks.

Its interesting that number T10 signal is a main aspect signal but then S50 if im correct is the ground postion light that was illuminated white for the train traveling on the main stretch of track towards 1519 points. I just find it an odd mix especially as the next main aspect T10 could be guiding you to if I were to assume there isnt a route indicator would be T16 at norwood junction.

S50 are points controlled by Selhurst Depot Panel.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Remember that trap points are controlled and trap facing movements and catch points are often unworked an catch vehicles running away in the wrong direction so are more likely to be found on gradients.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2026 ==



S50 are points controlled by Selhurst Depot Panel.

Ah thanks

 

[BlythPower]

Is 377464 likely to be repaired or could it be the first 377 to be scrapped..? As you might guess it's the only one I've not seen yet...

 

[Class455]

Is 377464 likely to be repaired or could it be the first 377 to be scrapped..? As you might guess it's the only one I've not seen yet...

The damage was nowhere near enough to write it off so I’m guessing it’s being repaired.

 

[BlythPower]

The damage was nowhere near enough to write it off so I’m guessing it’s being repaired.

Fingers crossed - it's been out of action for nearly two months now. I'd imagine the influx of 387s means it's not a priority.