Camp Hill line - progress updates

[Iron_Duke]

Is that Kings Norton but not actually the Camp Hill line?

Yes it is - it came down the Camp Hill from New Street.

 

[DelW]

I assume that this is one of the units that was supposed to be running on East-West by now?

Is it doing the testing because those trains have no other work, or are they used on ordinary WM train services despite their Chiltern branding?

 

[172007]

Its quite surprising that WM Trains have ben allowed to use another operators units tbh. Also it does suggest that class 196 availability is somewhat sketchy

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Is it doing the testing because those trains have no other work, or are they used on ordinary WM train services despite their Chiltern branding?

The Chiltern ones (007 - 012) don't get used on ordinary WMR services, but last time I passed 007 and 012 were on Tysley depot (along with plenty more 196s, 170s, 172s, and a Pacer for some reason) so it won't have been too much work.

Maybe this is a good sign for the future of collaboration.

 

[Iron_Duke]

Its quite surprising that WM Trains have ben allowed to use another operators units tbh. Also it does suggest that class 196 availability is somewhat sketchy

Yes I think you're right. My normal services haven't seen a 196 so far this year, when I've been travelling on it with 172 substituted. The normal platitudes about 'more trains needing maintenance than normal' has stopped.

As great as this is to see the testing start, I'm not sure how well this reflects on the East West Rail saga and WMT's 196 availability.

 

[MPC]

196009 (in Chiltern livery) looks like it's out testing the route and station stops today.

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View attachment 197531

The right-hand platform could do with a real tidy-up!

 

[Sprinter107]

The Chiltern ones (007 - 012) don't get used on ordinary WMR services, but last time I passed 007 and 012 were on Tysley depot (along with plenty more 196s, 170s, 172s, and a Pacer for some reason) so it won't have been too much work.

Maybe this is a good sign for the future of collaboration.

196010 was used to Hereford a few weeks ago.

 

[fgwrich]

The right-hand platform could do with a real tidy-up!

Scheduled for rebuilding as part of the Midlands Hub work.

 

[Wyrleybart]

196010 was used to Hereford a few weeks ago.

Interesting. I believe the Chiltern 196 subfleet are being converted back to DOO operation, so I guess they can't be worked by WMR conductors.
Wonder if 196010 has not yet been modified.

 

[172007]

Interesting. I believe the Chiltern 196 subfleet are being converted back to DOO operation, so I guess they can't be worked by WMR conductors.
Wonder if 196010 has not yet been modified.

Converted back is a bit dramatic. I immagine it's a laptop / remote or login on the unit to the TMS to tell it to display the camera feeds.

Welsh drivers have reported on these forums that a class 197 can have the camera feed switched on easily if you know how.

The 196 door controls are operated in the cab by the condictors day to day so they all function.

 

[E B]

https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/media/7091/download?inline

WMR have published the timetable for the Camp Hill Line

 

[JW4]

Hourly on Sundays

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Timings differ on weekdays to Saturdays

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Does the 2603 in the filename indicate that is when services will start? Multiple choice with two options: 26(day) 03(month) which is a Thursday or 26(year) 03(month) so just an unspecified day in March.
Full file ref: WMR 10 Web Mar 2603 V2

 

[E B]

Does the 2603 in the filename indicate that is when services will start? Multiple choice with two options: 26(day) 03(month) which is a Thursday or 26(year) 03(month) so just an unspecified day in March.
Full file ref: WMR 10 Web Mar 2603 V2

I would guess 26th of March, given the order (26, 03) and the fact that the file name contains the word 'Mar', potentially being a shortened form of March.

 

[The exile]

Although if you’re naming files by date you want year - month - day (though not necessarily all 3) otherwise sorting is a nightmare.

 

[zwk500]

2603 could be a reference to many things, not just a date. It could be a job number for instance (i.e. ticket 2603 on the Publications team's work tracker). It would be a bit odd to have 'Mar 2603' as a date format.

If a firm date were known for times to begin, the timetable would likely have a 'valid from' date in it's information.

 

[Freightmaster]

2603 could be a reference to many things, not just a date. It could be a job number for instance (i.e. ticket 2603 on the Publications team's work tracker). It would be a bit odd to have 'Mar 2603' as a date format.

Also, would a new passenger service really start on a Thursday?!



MARK

 

[TheNerdCharlie]

National Rail website has been updated to show that they are expected to open on the 19th of March

Pineapple Road Station | National Rail

Discover Pineapple Road railway station. Getting to & from, buying & collecting train tickets, staffing, facilities, accessibility, & mobility access.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Image shows a screenshot of the National Rail website for Pineapple road with a opening date of the 19th March shown

 

[DavidGrain]

I also searched for a start date. It would have been simple for a note to be shown saying something to the effect "Start Date to be announced" or "Please look out for announcements of start date"
The ghost timetable, including training runs, has been on Realtimetrains for some time with a "Q", runs as required. I use MOV for Moseley Village when I search RTT.

 

[zwk500]

I also searched for a start date. It would have been simple for a note to be shown saying something to the effect "Start Date to be announced" or "Please look out for announcements of start date"
The ghost timetable, including training runs, has been on Realtimetrains for some time with a "Q", runs as required. I use MOV for Moseley Village when I search RTT.

RTT only has short-term amendments in as far as Sunday 8th March so far on the Camp Hill Line. Knocking out the Q is a relatively simple job for the timetable team to bid when the start date is known though.

 

[Nottingham59]

With opening now imminent, are there any published forecasts for passenger numbers and station entrance/exit statistics for the Camp Hill line?

 

[zwk500]

With opening now imminent, are there any published forecasts for passenger numbers and station entrance/exit statistics for the Camp Hill line?

The Full Business Case is available on request from the WMCA, but they have published a summary in their board minutes that approved WMCA's funding for the stations, in January 2021, link: https://governance.wmca.org.uk/documents/s5125/Report.pdf with the following key elements:

Value for Money – BCR  The original modelling produced a Benefit Cost Ratio of 2.4, representing high value for money;  Since then there have been changes around the timetable assumptions and the impact of Covid-19 on passenger demand;  We are currently modelling a range of scenarios for the scheme based on latest input data. The strategic case for the scheme remains strong

The new stations will open in November 2023.

Fiscal Impact – the scheme will generate an estimated 440k journeys per annum from Moseley, 314k from Kings Heath and 358k from Hazelwell per annum with net additional rail demand of 1 million journeys per annum.

Environmental impact – during operation it is estimated that 27% of new rail users will transfer from car use for their journeys,

Service patronage will be in the order of 1.1m to 1.5m by 2027.  The time saving and value of savings to public transport times will be 241,000 hours per annum and £2.3m per annum.

And a neat graphic of how these stations mostly fill in the gap in rail catchment:

Notable caveat that those passenger numbers would presumably have needed to be reviewed once the impact of Covid was better known.

 

[The Planner]

Its £5.80 for a peak day return from Kings Norton, £4.10 off peak and a day saver is £5.20 according to the West Mids bus website. So clearly the journeys are going to have to be subsidised to get them cheap enough for people to swap from the bus. Guessing that they will be in zone 2 and 3 for West Mids season ticket purposes.

 

[zwk500]

Its £5.80 for a peak day return from Kings Norton, £4.10 off peak and a day saver is £5.20 according to the West Mids bus website. So clearly the journeys are going to have to be subsidised to get them cheap enough for people to swap from the bus. Guessing that they will be in zone 2 and 3 for West Mids season ticket purposes.

Kings Norton already has rail services, why would those fares change?

 

[The Planner]

King's Norton already has rail services, why would those fares change?

I'm using it as a comparison to what the Camp Hill prices would need to end up as.

 

[trundlewagon]

Its £5.80 for a peak day return from Kings Norton, £4.10 off peak and a day saver is £5.20 according to the West Mids bus website. So clearly the journeys are going to have to be subsidised to get them cheap enough for people to swap from the bus. Guessing that they will be in zone 2 and 3 for West Mids season ticket purposes.

The train takes 15 minutes, all day every day. The bus is timetabled to take between 20 and 35 (and can turn out to be longer) depending on the time of day. Think that's worth 60 pence of anyone's money...

 

[The exile]

I'm using it as a comparison to what the Camp Hill prices would need to end up as.

Presumably the intermediates on the University line serve as good comparisons (though of course their service is more attractive as double the frequency)

 

[trundlewagon]

Presumably the intermediates on the University line serve as good comparisons (though of course their service is more attractive as double the frequency)

All 3 stations are in fare zone 3, so the same as Kings Norton and Bournville.

 

[Palmerston]

The Full Business Case is available on request from the WMCA, but they have published a summary in their board minutes that approved WMCA's funding for the stations, in January 2021, link: https://governance.wmca.org.uk/documents/s5125/Report.pdf with the following key elements:

And a neat graphic of how these stations mostly fill in the gap in rail catchment:

This was a nice graphic. Would there be any scope for adding a station in the gap between Moseley and Bordesley? Especially given the latter hardly has any trains and is going to be demolished anyway.

 

[DavidGrain]

This was a nice graphic. Would there be any scope for adding a station in the gap between Moseley and Bordesley? Especially given the latter hardly has any trains and is going to be demolished anyway.

You will note that the Camp Hill Station is not being reopened which was not far from Bordesley. The reasoning behind this if I remember correctly is that reopening Camp Hill would not be commercially viable in terms of journey times as it is too close to the city centre and buses would be faster. Historically this line was the Birmingham and Gloucester line which came under the orbit of the Midland Railway in the early days and the original intention was for trains to run into Curzon Street so the line bypassed to the south of the city centre to enter Curzon Street from the east.
When the Bordesley Curves are built these trains will be diverted into Moor Street. This will require the demolition of Bordesley Station. I don't know if those circumstances would provide a justification for reopening Camp Hill or another station site nearby.