East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[edwin_m]

Apparently a sub-editor changed "twenty five car trains" into "25-car trains". 25-car trains would be a sight to behold!

Especially if each car was a bit less than 5m long...

 

[fishwomp]

Makes sense I guess, very easy to electrify between Bicester and Bletchley. I don't think EWR have said exactly where they're going to electrify? But that section of route would certainly make sense.

I know this is sheer fantasy but they should move the entire Bletchley Depot there, so they can build the EWR north-east chord. The industrial buildings that get cut off by it can move to where the depot used to be.

It's not fantasy - it's a bit common-sensey for an integrated railway.. Once in a 'one railway' age, why should each line have its own depot? Why wouldn't Coldham's Lane or a new light-servicing facility on the sidings north of Oxford (for GWR + Chiltern) make a _lot_ of sense if it were really 'one' - instead, there are plenty route miles of shuttling empty rolling stock (or passenger workings that exist purely to get stock to the one depot at night)

I guess it's because there's no 'integrated rail vehicles' - different rolling stock will have different build-maintain contract operators.

 

[Mikey C]

Apparently a sub-editor changed "twenty five car trains" into "25-car trains". 25-car trains would be a sight to behold!

The government heard complaints about trains being too short, and decided to show how different things will be under state controlled GBR

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The government heard complaints about trains being too short, and decided to show how different things will be under state controlled GBR

Open wagons. They saw the Rail 200 Cavalcade at Stockton.

 

[a good off]

I know this is sheer fantasy but they should move the entire Bletchley Depot there, so they can build the EWR north-east chord. The industrial buildings that get cut off by it can move to where the depot used to be.

If they relocated everything it would be an operational nightmare for the WCML services with stock all having to shunt via Bletchley High Level and change ends at either Denbigh Hall or MK, plus taking up valuable train paths on EWR with ECS moves.

 

[DarloRich]

The proposed depot has gone down, erm, "well" with local residents. I was at the consultation in Bletchley this weekend. Gave E-W some direct feedback about thier plans and operation. Not sure they were ready for that!

 

[zwk500]

The proposed depot has gone down, erm, "well" with local residents. I was at the consultation in Bletchley this weekend. Gave E-W some direct feedback about thier plans and operation. Not sure they were ready for that!

Some of the local reaction would lead you to believe the depot is being built on an unspoilt area of National Park level beauty and grace though. When in fact it's being built on the edge of Milton Keynes.

The depot supports a much better train service for a very wide regional area. The idea that the residents of one village should have sole right of refusal on it is staggering to me. Consultation and mitigation yes, but not being able to just block out an entire depot. Oxford-Bedford is an Omlette worth having (even more if it gets to Cambridge), and if 1 or two villages are the eggs that get cracked to make it, then call me Benthamite but I'm sorry that's a sacrifice any community-minded person should be willing to make.

“The decision to site this large depot in Buckinghamshire is not one that is welcomed by the Council and I want residents to be fully informed about the scale of this site – it’s being built to accommodate around twenty trains which is a considerable size and places a substantial impact on this area.
"Newton Longville is a rural and unspoilt community with limited infrastructure. There will be significantly increased construction traffic on local roads. The impact of such a huge development on this community will be monumental, with negative effects on traffic, noise and the local environment.

Take this quote, which implies the depot is going to be built within Newton Longville, and then compare it to this image, which shows that traffic is clearly going to access the depot via the A421 through Bletchley and not go through Newton Longville itself, on the far side of the line.

The image also quite neatly shows why existing locations around Bletchley station aren't suitable.

Plans for large new train depot near Milton Keynes sends shockwaves through residents and councillors

East West Rail’s plan to build a major new train maintenance depot just outside Bletchley have not gone down well with the public this week.

www.miltonkeynes.co.uk

 

[Falcon1200]

What does Bletchley Depot maintain nowadays that makes it unsuitable for the EWR fleet?

 

[A.Butler]

If they relocated everything it would be an operational nightmare for the WCML services with stock all having to shunt via Bletchley High Level and change ends at either Denbigh Hall or MK, plus taking up valuable train paths on EWR with ECS moves.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What does Bletchley Depot maintain nowadays that makes it unsuitable for the EWR fleet?

Nothing, there just isn't room nor any space to expand it. It's fine for a handful of 2 car 196s but not for the full fleet.

What local residents? It's in the middle of a field.

 

[DarloRich]

The depot supports a much better train service for a very wide regional area. The idea that the residents of one village should have sole right of refusal on it is staggering to me. Consultation and mitigation yes, but not being able to just block out an entire depot. Oxford-Bedford is an Omlette worth having (even more if it gets to Cambridge), and if 1 or two villages are the eggs that get cracked to make it, then call me Benthamite but I'm sorry that's a sacrifice any community-minded person should be willing to make.

I am not against this construction - simply that the local residents aren't happy. People over my way ( essentially the other end of town) are not happy with all E-W things. Not helped by closing the local station...............

(People over this way feel they were promised an improved service and will now have NO service)

The depot supports a much better train service for a very wide regional area. The idea that the residents of one village should have sole right of refusal on it is staggering to me. Consultation and mitigation yes, but not being able to just block out an entire depot. Oxford-Bedford is an Omlette worth having (even more if it gets to Cambridge), and if 1 or two villages are the eggs that get cracked to make it, then call me Benthamite but I'm sorry that's a sacrifice any community-minded person should be willing to make.

easy to say when you dont live there

You are dealing with fairly affluent people living in Buckinghamshire. Look at the hassle they have created for HS2! The local MP is a labour MP elected in a new constituency with a fairly small majority last time so I suspect he will have to line up with the most vocal residents.

I am sure it will happen. How much it costs in time and money to deliver is the question

 

[zwk500]

I am not against this construction - simply that the local residents aren't happy. People over my way ( essentially the other end of town) are not happy with all E-W things. Not helped by closing the local station...............

(People over this way feel they were promised an improved service and will now have NO service)

The closure of the station I have a lot more sympathy for, even if I think it is the right decision.

easy to say when you dont live there

I've lived in MK before... But also my whole point was that the residents of Newton Longville also don't live near the depot! It's not out in the countryside, it's right up against the outskirts of Bletchley for heaven's sake.

You are dealing with fairly affluent people living in Buckinghamshire. Look at the hassle they have created for HS2! The local MP is a labour MP elected in a new constituency with a fairly small majority last time so I suspect he will have to line up with the most vocal residents.

Well this is kind of my point. The more depressed area of Bletchley (that will actually be much more impacted by the depot) is getting it's improved rail service shut out by well-resourced people who are just fine driving their car everywhere. The railway is a maro-level thing, and micro-level objections should not hold it hostage.

I am sure it will happen. How much it costs in time and money to deliver is the question

My concern is that the costs are driven disproportionately higher than the impacts justify by people who think any green field is a national park.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've lived in MK before... But also my whole point was that the residents of Newton Longville also don't live near the depot! It's not out in the countryside, it's right up against the outskirts of Bletchley for heaven's sake.

Have a look at the map again. It's in the middle of a field, not really attached to either. But NL has a very village feel, and I can see why they are nervous - though they probably need to be more nervous that within 20 years development will just turn it into part of MK as is already happening to Woburn Sands.

 

[Magdalia]

What local residents? It's in the middle of a field.

The BBC couldn't find any local residents for their report, so they had to quote a spokesperson for some horses.

Proposed site for East West Rail maintenance depot announced

East West Rail wants to build a maintenance depot, but people living in a village are not happy.

www.bbc.co.uk

Villagers living near the site of a proposed East West Rail train maintenance depot have spoken of their "shock" at the plans.

The rail company wants to build on land alongside Whaddon Road, west of Bletchley and Newton Longville, near Milton Keynes, as part of the scheme, external to link Oxford and Cambridge.

Caroline Armstrong said her livery yard would have to close if the depot was built as people ride horses there and "if anything spooks them they cannot rest and the last thing they need is to be disturbed constantly".

 

[trundlewagon]

Some of the local reaction would lead you to believe the depot is being built on an unspoilt area of National Park level beauty and grace though. When in fact it's being built on the edge of Milton Keynes.

You forget that this is a country full of miserable, spiteful people who will object to absolutely anything.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You forget that this is a country full of miserable, spiteful people who will object to absolutely anything.

Milton Keynes is full of such people, objecting to new developments, which is rank hypocrisy because if you object to new development in a New Town you should also have objected to your own house being built.

That said, Newton Longville might have a fair few people living there who predate the New Town and thus are the only ones who can validly complain.

 

[DarloRich]

if you object to new development in a New Town you should also have objected to your own house being built.

I don't live in a new build so complain about everything

 

[swt_passenger]

The BBC couldn't find any local residents for their report, so they had to quote a spokesperson for some horses.

Proposed site for East West Rail maintenance depot announced

East West Rail wants to build a maintenance depot, but people living in a village are not happy.

www.bbc.co.uk

IIRC wasn’t the exact same tactic (ie ‘scaring the horses’), attempted with the original Chiltern Oxford project, but it never got very far.

 

[zwk500]

Have a look at the map again. It's in the middle of a field, not really attached to either.

Look at the map again, that gap (Saldon Place) is very much being built on.

But NL has a very village feel, and I can see why they are nervous - though they probably need to be more nervous that within 20 years development will just turn it into part of MK as is already happening to Woburn Sands.

They might well be nervous about that, and that is a valid concern about other developments. However I'd argue that by objecting to the depot, they make it more likely - if there's a decent train service, then development will cluster around the stations, but if there isn't, it'll continue to be car-dependent. So objecting to the depot just makes everybody's lives harder without addressing the thing they're actually concerned about.

You forget that this is a country full of miserable, spiteful people who will object to absolutely anything.

I'm fully aware of that, but if we accept that as an acceptable thing to do then nobody is going to end up benefitting in the not too distant future.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Look at the map again, that gap (Saldon Place) is very much being built on.

It is, but not yet towards that end. Nobody will therefore have committed to buying a house next to the depot, so will be able to make a decision based on the fact that the depot will be there.

TBH the industrial estates at the other side of the A421 will probably be more of an issue. There's housing right up against Aylesbury depot and that's DMUs!

 

[InTheEastMids]

Some of the local reaction would lead you to believe the depot is being built on an unspoilt area of National Park level beauty and grace though. When in fact it's being built on the edge of Milton Keynes.

Interestingly, one social media platform served up some local media coverage to me, and the comments seemed much more along the lines of "get on with it". I get the impression most people want EWR to stop messing about and get their shovels in the ground (or stop messing about on esoteric matters of working practices and just run the flippin' trains)

The BBC couldn't find any local residents for their report, so they had to quote a spokesperson for some horses

You forget that this is a country full of miserable, spiteful people who will object to absolutely anything.

Some people are just serial objectors, but in fairness, Google shows a Livery Yard at Lower Saldon Farm which is pretty much on the perimeter of the site. That business will be affected by construction and operation. Of course that shouldn't be a show-stopper, but saying the concerns aren't legit is also pretty silly.

though they probably need to be more nervous that within 20 years development will just turn it into part of MK as is already happening to Woburn Sands

Absolutely, if you lived there decades and thought of it as rural, or had a rural business (see above), this does fit the narrative of every-outward sprawl of MK consuming the countryside.

Newton Longville might have a fair few people living there who predate the New Town and thus are the only ones who can validly complain

Where you say "predate", I hope you mean "were there earlier than the people of" and not "kill and eat the people of". But hey it's rural Buckinghamshire, perhaps they do things differently there

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't live in a new build so complain about everything

It was new build once upon a time!

 

[Railwaysceptic]

You forget that this is a country full of miserable, spiteful people who will object to absolutely anything.

This country is not full of such people. They form a small minority.

 

[DarloRich]

It was new build once upon a time!

it was - about 100 years before MK was a gleam in the eye of a town planner

 

[paulmch]

This country is not full of such people. They form a small minority.

That may be so but they are also a group of people who are very adept at making their voice disproportionately loud, and the rest of the country suffers as a result. Nimbyism is a scourge!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That may be so but they are also a group of people who are very adept at making their voice disproportionately loud, and the rest of the country suffers as a result. Nimbyism is a scourge!

It is, but YIMBYism/urbanism is too. Like with many things a sensible middle ground is needed, and to be honest building this depot in the proposed location *is* a sensible middle ground, it's in the middle of nowhere, and it's now known before anyone buys a house in the development that will butt up to it so nobody is getting a nasty surprise.

 

[CdBrux]

maybe I missed something but is this depot proposal suddenly appearing out of the blue, i.e. why wasn't a depot included in the original plans?

 

[WolvertonWorks]

That said, Newton Longville might have a fair few people living there who predate the New Town and thus are the only ones who can validly complain.

Given that MK is less than 11 months away from its 60th birthday (23rd January 2027) there can't be many of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that MK is less than 11 months away from its 60th birthday (23rd January 2027) there can't be many of them.

What, the 1970s weren't 30 years ago?!

I feel old...

But yes, you're right, their numbers will now be diminishing.

 

[Magdalia]

maybe I missed something but is this depot proposal suddenly appearing out of the blue, i.e. why wasn't a depot included in the original plans?

This is what was in the 2024 consultation.

At the non-statutory consultation in 2021, reference was made to potential depot locations at either the Bletchley TMD or in the general Cambourne area. The search for potential sites has been expanded beyond these to generate a long list of search areas as shown in Figure 146. EWR Co may also consider other sites that are not included in the search areas. Ongoing design development will explore the benefits and impacts of each site to generate a short list of potential sites, which will be subject to assessment. Proposals will be presented at the statutory consultation and feedback invited. Figure 146 Search areas for TMDs

I can't get figure 146 to copy. The current proposal is one of 6 options on figure 146.