Thread Updated with GWR’s Response To The Petition

[35B]

Couple of points. Firstly on DfT control, I’d be encouraging an MP to ask questions about GWR freedom of action - more “please confirm what level of expenditure managers can approve without reference to DfT” than “how is headcount controlled”. Another point to consider is the gap between the service that GWR are contracted to provide and the conditions that their staff are on - and how DfT enforce conditions*.

Second, on petitions, the situation is about landowner and tenant rights. If you are on someone’s premises, collecting a petition that they are not in favour of, they can insist you move away. On the other hand, if you’re on the public pavement, their rights are much more limited. This is a more specialist legal matter, however. And don’t forget, given the context, that if station staff say “ok”, they can a) be overruled and b) potentially be subject to disciplinary action.

* - clue, they don’t. They prefer to keep fixed costs down and relax performance conditions than authorise doing things properly.

 

[Kath123]

Hi All

I’m sorry to bump this again. I know you are all probably fed up with me but I could really do with some support - I hope that’s ok.

The petition now has over 320 signatures and I’m very grateful to everyone who has signed. On Tuesday 2nd December I e-mailed the Managing Director at Great Western Railway copying in their Accessibility Manager requesting a date I can hand deliver the petition or if they won’t allow me to hand deliver it what other method of delivery they will accept. I emphasised I am willing to travel to a location of their choice to hand it to GWR and that they can choose the date and time (there are three dates before Christmas that I couldn’t do and I provided these).

I closed the petition and downloaded the signatures in preparation to deliver to them but it seems from my e-Mail inbox I’ve received no acknowledgment or reply to my email and we are now nearly two weeks later (I am visually impaired so obviously there is the possibility I may have missed it but I have checked through my inbox a number of times). My mind keeps worrying perhaps they are ignoring me but I don’t want to jump to conclusions.

I have now re-opened the petition until I can manage to communicate with GWR. How long is it reasonable to give GWR to reply? Is it reasonable for me to chase on Tuesday which will be two weeks since I e-mailed them?

Many thanks for any thoughts/advice.

 

[Egg Centric]

Hi All

I’m sorry to bump this again. I know you are all probably fed up with me but I could really do with some support - I hope that’s ok.

The petition now has over 320 signatures and I’m very grateful to everyone who has signed. On Tuesday 2nd December I e-mailed the Managing Director at Great Western Railway copying in their Accessibility Manager requesting a date I can hand deliver the petition or if they won’t allow me to hand deliver it what other method of delivery they will accept. I emphasised I am willing to travel to a location of their choice to hand it to GWR and that they can choose the date and time (there are three dates before Christmas that I couldn’t do and I provided these).

I closed the petition and downloaded the signatures in preparation to deliver to them but it seems from my e-Mail inbox I’ve received no acknowledgment or reply to my email and we are now nearly two weeks later (I am visually impaired so obviously there is the possibility I may have missed it but I have checked through my inbox a number of times). My mind keeps worrying perhaps they are ignoring me but I don’t want to jump to conclusions.

I have now re-opened the petition until I can manage to communicate with GWR. How long is it reasonable to give GWR to reply? Is it reasonable for me to chase on Tuesday which will be two weeks since I e-mailed them?

Many thanks for any thoughts/advice.

IMO a substantive response can take time but if there's not been an acknowledgement of the email at all within a few days then you're absolutely fine to email them again. Emailing to both MD and accessibility manager may have meant them both thinking it was the "other one's problem" - always best to be very clear who you're asking for a response from (if they then internally redirect it that's their affair).

I can't see them exactly chomping at the bit to arrange a physical handover (nor do you have any entitlement to this as far as I'm aware).

 

[gray1404]

You may be best sending a copy of the petition recorded delivery to their registered address on companies house.

 

[WesternLancer]

I know you have enlisted your MP to help in the past. Could they help you by joining you to hand the petition to GWR?

This might mean that
- GWR can’t really ignore an MP who wants to present them with a petition alongside a constituent
- the local
Press would likely cover you and the MP handing it over, so more spotlight on GWR

Is there a downside to this approach?
Is it too late to arrange?

Just a thought. Apols if you have considered it.

 

[Kath123]

I know you have enlisted your MP to help in the past. Could they help you by joining you to hand the petition to GWR?

This might mean that
- GWR can’t really ignore an MP who wants to present them with a petition alongside a constituent
- the local
Press would likely cover you and the MP handing it over, so more spotlight on GWR

Is there a downside to this approach?
Is it too late to arrange?

Just a thought. Apols if you have considered it.

Thanks for this idea. I hadn’t thought of it and it sounded like a good idea to me but I’ve not long got back home from having a busy day outside my local area and I’ve now received this e-mail from GWR:…..

Dear X

Thank you for your e-mail to our Managing Director, (name of Managing Director redacted). I am part of (Managing Director’s name) team, and he’s asked me to reply on his behalf. I apologise for the delay in coming back to you.

It’s not necessary for you to go to the trouble of hand delivering your petition - you can certainly e-mail it to (Managing Director name redacted) at (e-Mail address redacted) or post it to our Head Office

GWR
Milford House
1 Milford Street
Swindon
SN1 1HL

We will of course acknowledge receipt once received.

Kind regards
Name redacted
Executive Correspondence Manager
Great Western Railway

I don’t think they’re trying to save me any trouble. I think they simply don’t care and I’ve known that for quite a while but it still hurts. They just want to sweep this under the carpet as much as they can. Do they realise how much hard work it has been for me to create a Petition and then publicise it so people knew about it and could choose whether to sign? Over 300 people have signed and GWR don’t care less. In my view they are being disrespectful to those who have signed. Boy I’m angry. I’m sorry I need to take some time to calm down.

And it’s strange isn’t it - today I get a response after posting on here I hadn’t had one and providing a petition update via the Change website to let people know I hadn’t. I thought that might happen funnily enough. Everywise they would have been quite happy to continue to ignore me.

And I’m shocked GWR say I can e-Mail the petition - that flys in the face of everything I’ve ever learnt about Data Protection. People’s names, town/area of residence and postcodes are on that petition and they think I’m gonna send it by unencrypted e-mail?

I’m fed up with these people causing me distress. There’s really no need for them to be so cold hearted and insensitive.

Also if this was going to be their response there is no reasonable reason why it should have taken them 2 weeks to reply. They are just messing around and trying to cause as much hurt and distress as possible. And they are succeeding.

I hope they are happy I’m sat here in tears at half past midnight and will no doubt have yet another sleepless night worrying and being distressed over the situation while they all sleep soundly.

They may as well have typed ‘Don’t bother hand delivering the petition, we don’t want you to - we aren’t interested in it, talking to you or your feelings. If you must then e-mail it or post it and we won’t bother looking at it and will just bin it.’ That’s what they meant.

The Managing Director couldn’t even be bothered to type his own e-mail. Had to get some one else to do it. Considering the situation I really think he should be showing a little more interest.

Due to my visual impairment I’d actually prefer them to talk to me by telephone rather than e-Mail but of course the one advantage of e-Mail is it is all there in black and white.

I wonder whether any of them will show a bit of humanity and reach out and phone me as I’m feeling distressed? My guess - absolutely not.

And no I can’t phone the Managing Director or his team as conveniently they provide no contact number. Not that there would be any point me ringing them anyway. THEY SIMPLY DO NOT WANT TO LISTEN AND GWR CAN ACT HOW THEY LIKE AND NOT BE ACCOUNTABLE TO ANYONE.

I’m waiting for the day they do to a bigger station what they do to Pen Mill and leave it unstaffed for half a day or a day when it should be staffed. They wouldn’t dare. The public would absolutely erupt and they know it.

I specifically said to them in the e-mail I sent on the 2nd December I wanted to get the petition to them before Christmas. But they are determined to disrespect my wishes and drag this over to 2026. Well if they aren’t gonna be co-operative and respectful two can play at that game…..

And the next time Pen Mill is unstaffed when it should be staffed I will be going down there and letting people know about the petition. I don’t care what anyone says. If the station is unstaffed when it should be staffed it’s fair game as far as I’m concerned.

Even GWR’s own social media team told me e-mails sent to the Managing Director or Accessibility Manager should be responded to within 48 - 72 hours. So two weeks is a disgrace. They didn’t even have the decency to send me an acknowledgment. I’m very tempted to make a complaint about how they are treating me. I am human. I have feelings.

 

[Egg Centric]

Thanks for this idea. I hadn’t thought of it and it sounded like a good idea to me but I’ve not long got back home from having a busy day outside my local area and I’ve now received this e-mail from GWR:…..

Dear X

Thank you for your e-mail to our Managing Director, (name of Managing Director redacted). I am part of (Managing Director’s name) team, and he’s asked me to reply on his behalf. I apologise for the delay in coming back to you.

It’s not necessary for you to go to the trouble of hand delivering your petition - you can certainly e-mail it to (Managing Director name redacted) at (e-Mail address redacted) or post it to our Head Office

GWR
Milford House
1 Milford Street
Swindon
SN1 1HL

We will of course acknowledge receipt once received.

Kind regards
Name redacted
Executive Correspondence Manager
Great Western Railway

I don’t think they’re trying to save me any trouble. I think they simply don’t care and I’ve known that for quite a while but it still hurts. They just want to sweep this under the carpet as much as they can. Do they realise how much hard work it has been for me to create a Petition and then publicise it so people knew about it and could choose whether to sign? Over 300 people have signed and GWR don’t care less. In my view they are being disrespectful to those who have signed. Boy I’m angry. I’m sorry I need to take some time to calm down.

And it’s strange isn’t it - today I get a response after posting on here I hadn’t had one and providing a petition update via the Change website to let people know I hadn’t. I thought that might happen funnily enough. Everywise they would have been quite happy to continue to ignore me.

And I’m amazed GWR say I can e-Mail the petition - that flys in the face of everything I’ve ever learnt about Data Protection. People’s names, town/area of residence and postcodes are on that petition and they think I’m gonna send it by unencrypted e-mail?

I’m fed up with these people causing me distress. There’s really no need for them to be so cold hearted.

Also if this was going to be their response there is no reasonable reason why it should have taken them 2 weeks to reply. They are just messing around and trying to cause as much hurt and distress as possible. And they are succeeding.

I hope they are happy I’m sat here in tears at half past midnight and will no doubt have yet another sleepless night worrying and being distressed over the situation while they all sleep soundly.

Oh Kath, I'm really sorry that this has upset you so much. It's obvious you've put a huge amount of effort and care into this, and when you're already tired everything can feel much more painful.

That said, I don't think GWR's response shows an attempt to hurt you or anyone else who's signed. Obviously it's not promising, but I don't think you were ever anything other than realistic going into this so I hope it's not surprising either.

Right now it sounds like you're overwhelmed, and this doesn't need to be and won't be resolved tonight. Taking a pause and coming back to it after some rest might help.

 

[styles]

Thanks for this idea. I hadn’t thought of it and it sounded like a good idea to me but I’ve not long got back home from having a busy day outside my local area and I’ve now received this e-mail from GWR:…..

Dear X

Thank you for your e-mail to our Managing Director, (name of Managing Director redacted). I am part of (Managing Director’s name) team, and he’s asked me to reply on his behalf. I apologise for the delay in coming back to you.

It’s not necessary for you to go to the trouble of hand delivering your petition - you can certainly e-mail it to (Managing Director name redacted) at (e-Mail address redacted) or post it to our Head Office

GWR
Milford House
1 Milford Street
Swindon
SN1 1HL

We will of course acknowledge receipt once received.

Kind regards
Name redacted
Executive Correspondence Manager
Great Western Railway

I don’t think they’re trying to save me any trouble. I think they simply don’t care and I’ve known that for quite a while but it still hurts. They just want to sweep this under the carpet as much as they can. Do they realise how much hard work it has been for me to create a Petition and then publicise it so people knew about it and could choose whether to sign? Over 300 people have signed and GWR don’t care less. In my view they are being disrespectful to those who have signed. Boy I’m angry. I’m sorry I need to take some time to calm down.

Personally I think they just don't want the publicity associated with physically handing over a petition. A lot of petition organisers do this so it can be photographed etc for publicity purposes, and with a few hundred signatures it is something they can reasonably say please just email it. But yes, it's disappointing.

And it’s strange isn’t it - today I get a response after posting on here I hadn’t had one and providing a petition update via the Change website to let people know I hadn’t. I thought that might happen funnily enough. Everywise they would have been quite happy to continue to ignore me.

Yes I do agree this is coincidental!

And I’m shocked GWR say I can e-Mail the petition - that flys in the face of everything I’ve ever learnt about Data Protection. People’s names, town/area of residence and postcodes are on that petition and they think I’m gonna send it by unencrypted e-mail?

I'm not sure I see a data protection issue in this necessarily. When people sign petitions they agree for their details to be shared with the party being petitioned really. Printing it isn't necessarily more secure than emailing it, and can be argued either way. Also worth remembering that while the Data Protection Act will apply to change.org, and to GWR, it doesn't apply to you necessarily, as a private individual organising a petition, in that, you're not an organisation collecting personal information.

I’m fed up with these people causing me distress. There’s really no need for them to be so cold hearted and insensitive.

Also if this was going to be their response there is no reasonable reason why it should have taken them 2 weeks to reply. They are just messing around and trying to cause as much hurt and distress as possible. And they are succeeding.

I don't think they're trying to cause hurt and distress. I think they're just hoping you'll give up. Still crappy if so of course.

I hope they are happy I’m sat here in tears at half past midnight and will no doubt have yet another sleepless night worrying and being distressed over the situation while they all sleep soundly.

They may as well have typed ‘Don’t bother hand delivering the petition, we don’t want you to - we aren’t interested in it, talking to you or your feelings. If you must then e-mail it or post it and we won’t bother looking at it and will just bin it.’ That’s what they meant.

The Managing Director couldn’t even be bothered to type his own e-mail. Had to get some one else to do it. Considering the situation I really think he should be showing a little more interest.

I don't know whether they'll read it or not, but it does sound to me like they're hoping your complaint will just fade away.

If I were the MD I would take more of an interest, but I've also been in a position where I just don't have time to directly deal with every complaint and have delegated, especially when it's been administratively receiving a petition or replying to an email, so I wouldn't read too much into it. It doesn't necessarily mean the MD won't respond or take any involvement.

Due to my visual impairment I’d actually prefer them to talk to me by telephone rather than e-Mail but of course the one advantage of e-Mail is it is all there in black and white.

I wonder whether any of them will show a bit of humanity and reach out and phone me as I’m feeling distressed? My guess - absolutely not.

I doubt it. Like I say, I think they're hoping it'll just blow over unfortunately.

And no I can’t phone the Managing Director or his team as conveniently they provide no contact number. Not that there would be any point me ringing them anyway. THEY SIMPLY DO NOT WANT TO LISTEN AND GWR CAN ACT HOW THEY LIKE AND NOT BE ACCOUNTABLE TO ANYONE.

In fairness on this one, if I were the MD of an organisation this size, I would also not hand out my phone number. I was on the board of an organisation which turned over half a billion pounds once and to give out my phone number to complainants would've been a disaster.

I’m waiting for the day they do to a bigger station what they do to Pen Mill and leave it unstaffed for half a day or a day when it should be staffed. They wouldn’t dare. The public would absolutely erupt and they know it.

Agreed. It's an unacceptable situation.

I specifically said to them in the e-mail I sent on the 2nd December I wanted to get the petition to them before Christmas. But they are determined to disrespect my wishes and drag this over to 2026. Well if they aren’t gonna be co-operative and respectful two can play at that game…..

And the next time Pen Mill is unstaffed when it should be staffed I will be going down there and letting people know about the petition. I don’t care what anyone says. If the station is unstaffed when it should be staffed it’s fair game as far as I’m concerned.

Agreed. For what it's worth, if you organised a protest, I would attend (though not at short notice given how far away Pen Mill is from me!) GWR need to sort their act out.

Even GWR’s own social media team told me e-mails sent to the Managing Director or Accessibility Manager should be responded to within 48 - 72 hours. So two weeks is a disgrace. They didn’t even have the decency to send me an acknowledgment. I’m very tempted to make a complaint about how they are treating me. I am human. I have feelings.

I think 2 weeks for a full response is 'ok' (not ideal), but I would certainly expect an acknowledgement from a PA or somebody in the MD's or AM's team within a few working days tops.

I'm really sorry you're going through this Kath and the distress it's causing. I actually don't have an issue with the occasional unstaffing per se, if sickness etc happens for example; but that's why the Passenger Assistance scheme exists and you've made bookings and effectively had them not honoured and that to me is truly unacceptable and potentially unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act. It's one thing to say we can't reasonably offer assistance at this station next week because a lift has broken (for example); it's another to confirm an assistance booking then cancel it.

 

[MotCO]

that to me is truly unacceptable and potentially unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act. It's one thing to say we can't reasonably offer assistance at this station next week because a lift has broken (for example); it's another to confirm an assistance booking then cancel it.

I was just wondering if there was any legal address (yes, it can be a hassle, but there are some legally trained people on this forum who could give advice - maybe just the threat of legal action may be enough to spur them into action). You would probably need to list all the occasions you have been let down to build a case.

While looking into this option, I came across this page on the GWR website - I assume you have seen it. https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/passenger-assist

If we don’t give you the support you booked​

All individual train operating companies have their own recompense policies, which can be found within their own Accessible Travel Policies. If you travel with GWR and your booked assistance fails, you will be compensated. If GWR fails to provide your booked assistance this will be 100% of the cost of a single ticket, or 50% if a return ticket is held. If another train company was responsible for the failure, you can contact them directly, or we can liaise with them on your behalf and provide you with a full explanation in response, including why it happened and what mitigating actions we intend to take as a result.

Our Customer Support team are ready to help and can be contacted by completing our online contact form.

The compensation scheme set out above does not limit or exclude your other legal rights to compensation under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, or Equalities Act 2010. If you believe this applies to your journey, please contact our Customer Support team who will take each case on its merits and respond appropriately.

Where assistance has not been provided due to a delay, and both Delay Repay and Assisted Travel redress could apply, you will be entitled to whichever value is the highest but will not be able to claim both.

For information regarding your rights when you are travelling as a consumer, including under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, see www.gov.uk/consumer-protection-rights.

I've highlighted a section above which refers to you exercising legal rights under the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. If you have no luck with your petition, is this a potential way forward? Maybe you could be assisted by the RNIB?

 

[Watershed]

I was just wondering if there was any legal address (yes, it can be a hassle, but there are some legally trained people on this forum who could give advice - maybe just the threat of legal action may be enough to spur them into action). You would probably need to list all the occasions you have been let down to build a case.

While looking into this option, I came across this page on the GWR website - I assume you have seen it. https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/passenger-assist


I've highlighted a section above which refers to you exercising legal rights under the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. If you have no luck with your petition, is this a potential way forward? Maybe you could be assisted by the RNIB?

There's likely to be more recourse under the Equality Act than the Consumer Rights Act. Damaged for injury to feelings are available under the former, whereas the latter is broadly going to involve getting back a proportion of what was paid - i.e. what GWR already offer under their ATP.

 

[z444z]

I can recommend Ringrose Law for disability discrimination cases, particularly those involving transport.

 

[Rutland23]

https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-9690

For direct contact details.

Regards

Ian

 

[Kath123]

Hello All

Thank you for the replies. Apologies for the lateness responding again - this is the first time I’ve been back to this thread since mid December. As I think some of you correctly worked out I was overwhelmed and I’ve also been worried I might get in trouble with the Forum because I know I ranted quite a bit in my last post here and that is not what the Forum is for.

I can recommend Ringrose Law for disability discrimination cases, particularly those involving transport.

Regarding Ringrose Law I contacted them in 2024 after the station was left unstaffed and I had booked assistance. A wheelchair user on social media had recommended them to me. The response of Ringrose Law was they would struggle to prove I was put at detriment as I was not prevented from accessing the train service.

I might have managed to still access the train service but for them to say I was not put at detriment that day shows they have very poor understanding of severe visual impairment. And I think they operate something like no win no fee so seems they are just basically after the easy wins with the wheelchair users not something which will require a little more work.




I posted the petition and signatures to GWR as requested (this took me a bit of time as I had to wait until I had the money to get it printed and posted).

The response I have received from the Managing Director of GWR is below:

Dear Kath

Thank you for your letter and forwarding me your petition re Yeovil Pen Mill station. I have replied by e-mail as suggested so you are able to increase the size of print to suit your needs.

I know you have met with both X (Accessibility Manager) and X (Yeovil Pen Mill Station Manager based at Westbury) to discuss staffing the station and your concerns re accessibility.

Yeovil Pen Mill is important, and we take accessibility very seriously. This is why it is a staffed station, when the majority of stations in the local area are unstaffed.

There are times when the permanent staff are not available such as holidays, and our practice then is to use spare staff to cover. This has not always worked as well as you or I would like.

We have therefore authorised the employment of two additional staff for X’s team (they are referring to the cover/relief staff team for the region). This will mean that we have the greater cover you have campaigned for.

They will not be permanently based at Yeovil Pen Mill but will give X (Yeovil Pen Mill station manager based at Westbury) the added flexibility he needs to provide consistent cover for the station should our permanent team be away.

The first of the new staff start on 3 March and we are interviewing next week for the second vacancy. This should mean that Yeovil Pen Mill has better cover in future. It isn’t a guarantee, and if colleagues leave it does present a challenge, but we are very keen to get better levels of coverage and the additional staff should help.

Having spoken to (Accessibility Manager), I know you are aware that if you ever wish to travel and there is an issue at the station (for whatever reason) that means we cannot help you board, we will pay for a taxi to take you to the next staffed station where we will help you board your train.

We will therefore always make sure you have help to travel, whether from the extra cover the additional staff give, or through complimentary taxis.

I do hope that you will feel re-assured and able to travel by rail from Yeovil Pen Mill again.

Thank you again for writing, and for your persistence, it is important that we listen and I am pleased that we have been able to take action.

Best wishes
X (Name redacted)
Managing Director
Great Western Railway

Now obviously there is some positive news in this which I’m grateful for and leaves me cautiously optimistic. Obviously it’s not totally what I was hoping for but I’m very aware that I can’t force GWR to do things.

I’m not sure the outcome is due to the petition because GWR mentioned possibly increasing cover for the region when I and Caseworkers from my MP’s office met with them last year before the petition was started but hopefully it has helped to move things along

I am not sure how to respond to GWR? I was thinking of maybe sending a short reply thanking them for the news which makes me cautiously optimistic and asking them to maybe let me know when both of the additional cover staff are in place and have finished their training so that then I could consider maybe planning a few journeys? Though I am worried whether I really will be welcome back at the station and on GWR after speaking out. Does anyone on here know how long the training will be for the two new cover/relief members of staff for the region?

Thanks again for any support. Always really appreciate any thoughts, support or feedback given here.

PS I do remain worried as I know one of the two permanent members of staff at Yeovil Pen Mill is highly likely to retire soon (the Station Manager agreed with me thinking this when we met last year) and obviously they have said in their e-Mail there will be a challenge if staff leave.

 

[Haywain]

I am worried whether I really will be welcome back at the station and on GWR after speaking out.

GWR have far bigger things to worry about than one customer making complaints. Station staff are employed to do a job and should do that without detriment to anyone who has felt that the overall service has been below the standard required.

they have said in their e-Mail there will be a challenge if staff leave.

There will always be a challenge because the time taken to recruit and train new staff can be longer than desired, and potentially longer than the notice period given by someone who is leaving. That means periods where there might be a shortfall in numbers. This isn't specifically a railway problem, it can happen to any business.

 

[Kath123]

@Haywain You have only quoted part of my sentence in your second quote and your response does not take into account the context of the situation explained where GWR are fully aware there will be a retirement in the near future at a station which has only two permanent members of staff.

 

[MotCO]

Hello All

Thank you for the replies. Apologies for the lateness responding again - this is the first time I’ve been back to this thread since mid December. As I think some of you correctly worked out I was overwhelmed and I’ve also been worried I might get in trouble with the Forum because I know I ranted quite a bit in my last post here and that is not what the Forum is for.



Regarding Ringrose Law I contacted them in 2024 after the station was left unstaffed and I had booked assistance. A wheelchair user on social media had recommended them to me. The response of Ringrose Law was they would struggle to prove I was put at detriment as I was not prevented from accessing the train service.

I might have managed to still access the train service but for them to say I was not put at detriment that day shows they have very poor understanding of severe visual impairment. And I think they operate something like no win no fee so seems they are just basically after the easy wins with the wheelchair users not something which will require a little more work.




I posted the petition and signatures to GWR as requested (this took me a bit of time as I had to wait until I had the money to get it printed and posted).

The response I have received from the Managing Director of GWR is below:

Dear Kath

Thank you for your letter and forwarding me your petition re Yeovil Pen Mill station. I have replied by e-mail as suggested so you are able to increase the size of print to suit your needs.

I know you have met with both X (Accessibility Manager) and X (Yeovil Pen Mill Station Manager based at Westbury) to discuss staffing the station and your concerns re accessibility.

Yeovil Pen Mill is important, and we take accessibility very seriously. This is why it is a staffed station, when the majority of stations in the local area are unstaffed.

There are times when the permanent staff are not available such as holidays, and our practice then is to use spare staff to cover. This has not always worked as well as you or I would like.

We have therefore authorised the employment of two additional staff for X’s team (they are referring to the cover/relief staff team for the region). This will mean that we have the greater cover you have campaigned for.

They will not be permanently based at Yeovil Pen Mill but will give X (Yeovil Pen Mill station manager based at Westbury) the added flexibility he needs to provide consistent cover for the station should our permanent team be away.

The first of the new staff start on 3 March and we are interviewing next week for the second vacancy. This should mean that Yeovil Pen Mill has better cover in future. It isn’t a guarantee, and if colleagues leave it does present a challenge, but we are very keen to get better levels of coverage and the additional staff should help.

Having spoken to (Accessibility Manager), I know you are aware that if you ever wish to travel and there is an issue at the station (for whatever reason) that means we cannot help you board, we will pay for a taxi to take you to the next staffed station where we will help you board your train.

We will therefore always make sure you have help to travel, whether from the extra cover the additional staff give, or through complimentary taxis.

I do hope that you will feel re-assured and able to travel by rail from Yeovil Pen Mill again.

Thank you again for writing, and for your persistence, it is important that we listen and I am pleased that we have been able to take action.

Best wishes
X (Name redacted)
Managing Director
Great Western Railway

Now obviously there is some positive news in this which I’m grateful for and leaves me cautiously optimistic. Obviously it’s not totally what I was hoping for but I’m very aware that I can’t force GWR to do things.

I’m not sure the outcome is due to the petition because GWR mentioned possibly increasing cover for the region when I and Caseworkers from my MP’s office met with them last year before the petition was started but hopefully it has helped to move things along

I am not sure how to respond to GWR? I was thinking of maybe sending a short reply thanking them for the news which makes me cautiously optimistic and asking them to maybe let me know when both of the additional cover staff are in place and have finished their training so that then I could consider maybe planning a few journeys? Though I am worried whether I really will be welcome back at the station and on GWR after speaking out. Does anyone on here know how long the training will be for the two new cover/relief members of staff for the region?

Thanks again for any support. Always really appreciate any thoughts, support or feedback given here.

PS I do remain worried as I know one of the two permanent members of staff at Yeovil Pen Mill is highly likely to retire soon (the Station Manager agreed with me thinking this when we met last year) and obviously they have said in their e-Mail there will be a challenge if staff leave.

Well done for your persistence, and I feel you have got a good result. The fact that the response was from the Managing Director speaks volumes. Obviously, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, but they have pledged to provide additional absence cover which, if I recall, was one of the problems.

With regards to whether or not you will be welcomed back at the station, I would be surprised if the staff themselves do not feel sorry that, for whatever reason, they were unable to provide the service you should expect; it wasn't their fault if there was insufficient staff cover, nor if they wanted to take leave, and they may be happy that additional resources are being made available. So don't have any worry about using the station again.

Again well done!

 

[Haywain]

@Haywain You have only quoted part of my sentence in your second quote and your response does not take into account the context of the situation explained where GWR are fully aware there will be a retirement in the near future at a station which has only two permanent members of staff.

Indeed, the part of the sentence that I have not quoted does not affect my comments. Someone being "highly likely" to retire will not allow a replacement to be recruited until they have actually given a date for their retirement. I am afraid this is a reality of how the cost controls currently imposed on the railway companies have an effect.

 

[LowLevel]

To tell you a brief story Kath to hopefully reassure you some years ago I was working as station staff at a busy city centre Intercity station. We had a regular customer who in this case was a wheelchair user.

She was also a solicitor and had no qualms with taking the train operator to court if things went wrong which she did on several occasions.

Despite her being a bit of a thorn in the side of the management she had a perfectly cordial relationship with front line staff and I genuinely enjoyed helping her and hearing her perspective on things.

GWR are effectively controlled by the state to provide a service. It goes without saying that not everyone will always be happy.

Perhaps if it makes you feel a bit more confident about perception, if you receive genuinely good service whether it is from the station staff at Yeovil or elsewhere or the train crew you could send a quick email with some praise? There is nothing more powerful than a customer who delivers honest feedback both positive and negative.

 

[John R]

Indeed, the part of the sentence that I have not quoted does not affect my comments. Someone being "highly likely" to retire will not allow a replacement to be recruited until they have actually given a date for their retirement. I am afraid this is a reality of how the cost controls currently imposed on the railway companies have an effect.

Not only in the railway. In many businesses you can't recruit until a vacancy becomes available by virtue of a resignation letter, as people can, and do, change their mind.

 

[Belperpete]

Hello All

Regarding Ringrose Law I contacted them in 2024 after the station was left unstaffed and I had booked assistance. A wheelchair user on social media had recommended them to me. The response of Ringrose Law was they would struggle to prove I was put at detriment as I was not prevented from accessing the train service.

I might have managed to still access the train service but for them to say I was not put at detriment that day shows they have very poor understanding of severe visual impairment. And I think they operate something like no win no fee so seems they are just basically after the easy wins with the wheelchair users not something which will require a little more work.

I think that you are being a little harsh about Ringrose. They are not a charity. Any legal firm has to pay its staff and expenses, and those offering "no win no fee" will only survive by taking on cases that stand a reasonable chance of winning, and getting awarded costs. They wouldn't have been put off by "a little more work", as any work put in would be covered by the costs awarded provided you won. They would have been put off by them considering you to have a poor chance of winning.

To win a case, you would need to prove that you were put at detriment, and be able to put a financial cost on that detriment. Someone who was unable to catch the train would be able to demonstrate the delay that they suffered, and the impacts it might have had, and financial costs could be put on those. However, your admission that you might still have managed to access the train effectively pulls the rug from under that argument. Were you able to provide Ringrose with any evidence of how you were put at detriment, and its financial impact on you?

 

[z444z]

To win a case, you would need to prove that you were put at detriment, and be able to put a financial cost on that detriment. Someone who was unable to catch the train would be able to demonstrate the delay that they suffered, and the impacts it might have had, and financial costs could be put on those. However, your admission that you might still have managed to access the train effectively pulls the rug from under that argument. Were you able to provide Ringrose with any evidence of how you were put at detriment, and its financial impact on you?

Detriment does not require financial loss. Having to force your way onto a train does not mean you didn’t suffer a detriment.

 

[AlterEgo]

Detriment does not require financial loss. Having to force your way onto a train does not mean you didn’t suffer a detriment.

Yes, but the point is - how much compensation is that likely to bring, and would that cover the legal firm's costs?

 

[35B]

Detriment does not require financial loss. Having to force your way onto a train does not mean you didn’t suffer a detriment.

Yes, but the test is also a legal one - and part of lawyers’ job is to be straight with people’s expectations if what they believe and what the law will support don’t align.

 

[ic31420]

Quite. I could not agree more. It is very bad that disabled people have to be this assertive but it is where we are and we can only play the field as it lies.

Assertive, perhaps not. But clear and straightforward. The customer service bod answering the call will deal with many enquiries from many many people with diverse needs, requirements and desires. Add into that the many many peculiarities and unique features of the stations, trains, staff and days event makes what at first might seems a simple job much harder.

A person's profile may pop up on a system when they call, but there is rarely time to fully read notes, certainly on the (non railway systems I use)

It just all goes wrong if the person expects the advisor to have in-depth prior knowledge when they could say.

"Hi It's Mr Jones from Yeovil, I'm severely visually impaired and need to get From Yeovil Penn Mill to XYZ. I need to book assistance with XYZ. If the station isnt manned can you please book me a taxi from XYZ to Named Station. It should all be covered in the notes on my file..."

Having previously been responsible for managing station staffing I am well aware that some jobs are ‘hard to fill’ for various reasons.

Agreed, I used to manage a small chain of shops, by far the biggest headache was the staff. It used to drive me to distraction. it seems like a really sensible proposition to set up, but then you throw in leave, pregnancy, sickness, long term sickness, seasonal peaks in sickness, staff deciding not to come in, leavers, new starters. To put it into perspective we worked on an additional staff costing £50k a year. So that would be we'd need to take another £120k a year to pay for it.
Ultimately the resilience wasnt worth it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Assertive, perhaps not. But clear and straightforward. The customer service bod answering the call will deal with many enquiries from many many people with diverse needs, requirements and desires. Add into that the many many peculiarities and unique features of the stations, trains, staff and days event makes what at first might seems a simple job much harder.

A person's profile may pop up on a system when they call, but there is rarely time to fully read notes, certainly on the (non railway systems I use)

It just all goes wrong if the person expects the advisor to have in-depth prior knowledge when they could say.

"Hi It's Mr Jones from Yeovil, I'm severely visually impaired and need to get From Yeovil Penn Mill to XYZ. I need to book assistance with XYZ. If the station isnt manned can you please book me a taxi from XYZ to Named Station. It should all be covered in the notes on my file..."

You're explaining this to the only person on the forum (edit: one of the only people!) who has actually worked this job. (XC, TFW, LO Journeycare bookings by phone)

There is really no excuse for not reading notes, or for asking if there is any other help that might be offered. This is really call handling 101. If people are less straightforward there might be good reason for that - especially on an accessibility line! - and you need to deal with them sympathetically and patiently, to ensure they are not disadvantaged compared to someone who is perfectly able and does not need assistance.

Inevitably there were some people who called nearly daily who you'd get to know personally, and who were incredibly clear and straightforward, and then there were those that were one-offs or had conditions which made them much less easy to handle. But they all need to have the same outcome. It wasn't a hard job.

 

[Segedunum]

Like @AlterEgo I have done this job. Either you know a station will be unmanned or you don't. If you're unsure, you check. If you're 99% sure, you still check.

You then ask the customer where they need the assistance. If they need to be guided through a station and the station is unmanned, then the next question you should be asking is if they would prefer a taxi to the nearest staffed station.

Not doing these things (and just booking an impossible assist at an unstaffed station) will eventually see someone out of a job (or moved to another department) if done one too many times.

When booking assistance, anyone who's booked in the past five or so years will have a profile that will come up when you enter their details. That in itself will tell you most of what you need to know, but you always clarify it with the customer.

 

[BurtonM]

I think it's a fantastic result, if it's resulted in GWR hiring more cover staff as that's clearly a considerable expense! I'd definitely be optimistic and give them a chance to prove themselves - if you felt anything less than welcome back at Pen Mill ever, I'd discuss that with the MD as he clearly wants you to be welcome there, and indeed everywhere on GWR by assuring that you'll always get where you need to go.
I sincerely hope these measures play out and you have less issues travelling.
Remember - you have made a change

 

[Horizon22]

@Haywain You have only quoted part of my sentence in your second quote and your response does not take into account the context of the situation explained where GWR are fully aware there will be a retirement in the near future at a station which has only two permanent members of staff.

It says "highly likely". GWR cannot hire for a vacancy that may or may not exist. The person would have to hand in their notice before the recruitment process could begin.

The fact they've made concessions to hire more staff is a good win and you should be proud of your efforts to help make this happen, even if this isn't the end of the story.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello All

Thank you for the replies. Apologies for the lateness responding again - this is the first time I’ve been back to this thread since mid December. As I think some of you correctly worked out I was overwhelmed and I’ve also been worried I might get in trouble with the Forum because I know I ranted quite a bit in my last post here and that is not what the Forum is for.



Regarding Ringrose Law I contacted them in 2024 after the station was left unstaffed and I had booked assistance. A wheelchair user on social media had recommended them to me. The response of Ringrose Law was they would struggle to prove I was put at detriment as I was not prevented from accessing the train service.

I might have managed to still access the train service but for them to say I was not put at detriment that day shows they have very poor understanding of severe visual impairment. And I think they operate something like no win no fee so seems they are just basically after the easy wins with the wheelchair users not something which will require a little more work.




I posted the petition and signatures to GWR as requested (this took me a bit of time as I had to wait until I had the money to get it printed and posted).

The response I have received from the Managing Director of GWR is below:

Dear Kath

Thank you for your letter and forwarding me your petition re Yeovil Pen Mill station. I have replied by e-mail as suggested so you are able to increase the size of print to suit your needs.

I know you have met with both X (Accessibility Manager) and X (Yeovil Pen Mill Station Manager based at Westbury) to discuss staffing the station and your concerns re accessibility.

Yeovil Pen Mill is important, and we take accessibility very seriously. This is why it is a staffed station, when the majority of stations in the local area are unstaffed.

There are times when the permanent staff are not available such as holidays, and our practice then is to use spare staff to cover. This has not always worked as well as you or I would like.

We have therefore authorised the employment of two additional staff for X’s team (they are referring to the cover/relief staff team for the region). This will mean that we have the greater cover you have campaigned for.

They will not be permanently based at Yeovil Pen Mill but will give X (Yeovil Pen Mill station manager based at Westbury) the added flexibility he needs to provide consistent cover for the station should our permanent team be away.

The first of the new staff start on 3 March and we are interviewing next week for the second vacancy. This should mean that Yeovil Pen Mill has better cover in future. It isn’t a guarantee, and if colleagues leave it does present a challenge, but we are very keen to get better levels of coverage and the additional staff should help.

Having spoken to (Accessibility Manager), I know you are aware that if you ever wish to travel and there is an issue at the station (for whatever reason) that means we cannot help you board, we will pay for a taxi to take you to the next staffed station where we will help you board your train.

We will therefore always make sure you have help to travel, whether from the extra cover the additional staff give, or through complimentary taxis.

I do hope that you will feel re-assured and able to travel by rail from Yeovil Pen Mill again.

Thank you again for writing, and for your persistence, it is important that we listen and I am pleased that we have been able to take action.

Best wishes
X (Name redacted)
Managing Director
Great Western Railway

Now obviously there is some positive news in this which I’m grateful for and leaves me cautiously optimistic. Obviously it’s not totally what I was hoping for but I’m very aware that I can’t force GWR to do things.

I’m not sure the outcome is due to the petition because GWR mentioned possibly increasing cover for the region when I and Caseworkers from my MP’s office met with them last year before the petition was started but hopefully it has helped to move things along

I am not sure how to respond to GWR? I was thinking of maybe sending a short reply thanking them for the news which makes me cautiously optimistic and asking them to maybe let me know when both of the additional cover staff are in place and have finished their training so that then I could consider maybe planning a few journeys? Though I am worried whether I really will be welcome back at the station and on GWR after speaking out. Does anyone on here know how long the training will be for the two new cover/relief members of staff for the region?

Thanks again for any support. Always really appreciate any thoughts, support or feedback given here.

PS I do remain worried as I know one of the two permanent members of staff at Yeovil Pen Mill is highly likely to retire soon (the Station Manager agreed with me thinking this when we met last year) and obviously they have said in their e-Mail there will be a challenge if staff leave.

I’d use receiving that as an excuse to drop your MP a short message, enclose the response from the GWR MD, say you wanted keep the MP informed, say you are cautiously optimistic and end by asking the MP to keep an eye on the situation.

Basically an excuse to keep the MP engaged with a topic that’s important to you and other constituents.

You have worked hard for this. Well done indeed.

 

[BazingaTribe]

You have worked hard for this. Well done indeed.

Absolutely. As disabled myself, thanks for doing the hard work.