How do you solve a problem like Bradford?

[MichaelTrains]

Where is this 'newly electrified line' ?

All what seems to be proposed is a through station and the line up to it being electrified!

Apologies, the Leeds to Bradford bit would be electrified.

 

[Sonik]

Reasonable best case journey times for Manchester - Leeds and Manchester - Bradford will be extremely similar. Essentially, Huddersfield - Leeds via TRU and Huddersfield - Bradford via some sort of Pickle Bridge route are about the same.

There was a schematic map on the TV news, showing exactly this - a direct route from Bradford to Huddersfield (albeit this is apparently under 'ideas being explored')

IIRC Tracy Brabin also stated in an interview, that they want a commute to Manchester to be as quick from Bradford as it is from Leeds.

Note also that 'NPR' between Huddersfield and Manchester is planned to be done last, and pushing more trains via that way, will of course improve the case for a new tunnel.

 

[JR108]

As previously mentioned, I think it would be a good idea to run the WY tram scheme alongside the existing Leeds / Bradford railway where it used to be four tracked. This could possibly facilitate transferring, Bramley and possibly New Pudsey over to light rail operation with many new stops added. The existing railway would then be free for a regular electrified 'non-stop' heavy rail service to run between the two cities, possibly reduce the journey time to just over ten minutes. I'd scrap the St. James thru' station idea. As for the Interchange, I would support the fifth platform idea (which incidentally could give the city another Platform '0'). Another idea would be to reopen the Wortley Curve and transfer some LNER services back to the Interchange giving a faster service to the capital. I was recently in LDS and only counted only 21 people on the LNER train as it left Leeds towards BDQ, and that's not even factoring in how many may have got off at Shipley. Surely more people would use a direct & well timed Intercity service to BDI today, than in the in 80's.

 

[Grumpy]

'on the mainline' ? it's got direct London services (three routes), it's linked to Leeds and Manchester directly, along with direct to Airedale/Wharfdale and Huddersfield, and even Pontefract.. What mainline would you like it to be on?

Also hourly direct to Hull, York and Preston/Blackpool

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As previously mentioned, I think it would be a good idea to run the WY tram scheme alongside the existing Leeds / Bradford railway where it used to be four tracked. This could possibly facilitate transferring, Bramley and possibly New Pudsey over to light rail operation with many new stops added. The existing railway would then be free for a regular electrified 'non-stop' heavy rail service to run between the two cities, possibly reduce the journey time to just over ten minutes. I'd scrap the St. James thru' station idea. As for the Interchange, I would support the fifth platform idea (which incidentally could give the city another Platform '0'). Another idea would be to reopen the Wortley Curve and transfer some LNER services back to the Interchange giving a faster service to the capital. I was recently in LDS and only counted only 21 people on the LNER train as it left Leeds towards BDQ, and that's not even factoring in how many may have got off at Shipley. Surely more people would use a direct & well timed Intercity service to BDI today, than in the in 80's.

I'd previously been unsupportive of the Wortley Curve reopening (I'm sure it was heartbroken ) but I'm warming to the idea. My objection was that because Leeds is such a big market it makes more sense to reverse Bradford trains there if you're getting that close- that way you're adding Leeds to Bradford capacity and not depriving Leeds of a regular pattern service by using the path for a Bradford train instead. However running the service from Kings Cross as a 2x5 Azuma that splits at Wakefield could work- that's assuming the signalling there permits splitting and joining of course.

Certainly makes more sense than the Gateway station idea anyway!

 

[Palmerston]

How do you solve a problem like Bradford?
There are multiple issues here: travel within Bradford, local transport to nearby towns, medium-distance services to northern cities e.g. Manchester/Newcastle, long distance travel to e.g. London/Scotland/Birmingham. Decide what is the biggest priority and then go from there, unless money is no object, in which case do everything all at once with as many crayons as necessary. Problems I can see are:
1. Two separate stations means you cannot have cross-city traffic. You probably would do this if you could, but given there is more population south and east, and not much due north, you don't solve much this way. A tram network might help a bit as Bradford has never had many suburban stations.
2. Leeds is bigger and nearby. This makes it uneconomic for much long distance traffic to go to Bradford, unless it also goes to Leeds. You can't change the geography but making to easier to get from Leeds to Bradford will help, because it makes through traffic more economic.
3. Reversing in and out of Exchange slows trains down and limits capacity. The fast route from Manchester to Leeds isn't via Bradford, but via Huddersfield.
4. Few cross country routes make sense to go to Bradford. London-Leeds trains can't easily be extended to Bradford.
5. Not all lines electrified. Electrifying would make sense.
6. Access to nearby places like Sheffield is very limited. Could this be easily rectified?

What does a through station further outside the centre help with? Not much as far as most comments go. If it was larger (but doesn't need to be a through station) and could be used to terminate most London to Leeds trains, that might be helpful. Solution is likely to involve increasing capacity around Leeds (as far as I can tell). It also provides for a futureproof station if some sort of HS3 tunnel was built that might give a fast route Manchester-Halifax-Bradford-Leeds. That would mean long distance traffic would go via the city too. I don't there are any plans for that any more. In summary, the new through station might help a bit, but not much and the location means it might not be worth it, unless you can commit to a lot more spending.

 

[Grumpy]

6. Access to nearby places like Sheffield is very limited. Could this be easily rectified?

In usual times there's a Northern 150 shuttles Bradford to Huddersfield. Similarly there's a Northern 150 shuttles between Bradford and Sheffield. Perhaps if they'd cross-linked these they could have saved some money providing a new bay at Huddersfield.

 

[LittleAH]

In usual times there's a Northern 150 shuttles Bradford to Huddersfield. Similarly there's a Northern 150 shuttles between Bradford and Sheffield. Perhaps if they'd cross-linked these they could have saved some money providing a new bay at Huddersfield.

Poor idea. What happens if there’s engineering work at Brighouse. Where do you spin the Sheffield service if Huddersfield has no capacity. A reminder that with NPR, Huddersfield will gain another bay platform due to passive provision.

 

[Tetchytyke]

In usual times there's a Northern 150 shuttles Bradford to Huddersfield. Similarly there's a Northern 150 shuttles between Bradford and Sheffield.

There aren’t any direct trains from Bradford to Sheffield.

You may be thinking of the Halifax to Hull train. But that is the fourth train per hour from Bradford Interchange to Leeds and they’re probably isn’t room for a fifth.

There is a reason why the ‘grand tour’, which used to run Selby-Leeds-Bradford-Huddersfield-Wakefield, was broken up.

ETA: you may also be thinking of Huddersfield to Sheffield via Penistone. That might work, although the long single track sections would require quite a lot of timetable re-jigging, but it is a slow train from Huddersfield to Sheffield and so it would have very limited utility from Bradford.

IIRC Tracy Brabin also stated in an interview, that they want a commute to Manchester to be as quick from Bradford as it is from Leeds.

There’s not that much in it now. The Fastest train does Bradford to Manchester in 53 minutes, compared to about 47 minutes from Leeds to Manchester.

Surely more people would use a direct & well timed Intercity service to BDI today

I don’t see why a train from London to Interchange would have any more people on it as through passengers than a train from London to Forster Square.

 

[Islandexpress]

FWIW, I believe that a new station and a through station, (ideallly connecting Airedale lines too but that’s probably unrealistic) is an incredibly positive albeit bold move. Bradford needs regeneration and change. Read about Bijlmer station in Amsterdam to see how a humble station can be a catalyst.

 

[The Pelican]

It seems to me the best "small-ish" investment would be tram tracks between the two Bradford stations and a small fleet of Cardiff style tram trains (or rent actuall Cardiff tram-trains- can they transfer daily from Taff's Well?) which could stop at existing stations on the railway and new, high floor tram stops in Bradford centre. The actual number of tram trains needed to cover a 15 minute shuttle between the two stations might be fairly small. The track would be expensive but would, like in Manchester, provide a core which could be used by other routes. These could include exclusive tram tracks to the St James or Henderson Street location.

The trams could provide some services to Leeds via Shipley, and in future could go via an electrified Pudsey route.

 

[D6130]

There aren’t any direct trains from Bradford to Sheffield.

I think that's a typo for Huddersfield to Sheffield, given the context and f the rest are f the post.

 

[MichaelTrains]

I'd previously been unsupportive of the Wortley Curve reopening (I'm sure it was heartbroken ) but I'm warming to the idea. My objection was that because Leeds is such a big market it makes more sense to reverse Bradford trains there if you're getting that close- that way you're adding Leeds to Bradford capacity and not depriving Leeds of a regular pattern service by using the path for a Bradford train instead. However running the service from Kings Cross as a 2x5 Azuma that splits at Wakefield could work- that's assuming the signalling there permits splitting and joining of course.

Certainly makes more sense than the Gateway station idea anyway!

Perhaps also with Northern running four-car trains Wakefield to Sheffield with one starting at Bradford and the other Leeds giving Bradford a much-needed link to Sheffield.

 

[NCT]

The key problem with (1) is that passengers heading the other way across the Pennines don't want 2 of their 4 fast trains per hour to dump them in Bradford where they'll have to change to reach Leeds or York.

The vast majority of cross-Pennine passengers to Leeds and York don't come anywhere near Bradford. They go via Huddersfield. The Calder Valley / Copy Pit market to Leeds and York is small.

It's silly having two main lines both operating as mixed railways. Concentrate all the non-stop services into a new (substantially) tunnelled route and release the existing Dewsbury and Pudsey routes to serve as all-stations metros. You run the Copy Pit and Halifax expresses in the new tunnel alongside the Manchester - Leeds NPR services. Then there are no through flows that need to be routed via Bradford.

As for (2) you'd need to spend a fair bit optimising Leeds station to accommodate this metro service, ideally with some grade separation and even dedicated platforms in a "low level" Metro station... which would have to be quite deep thanks to the River Aire. If you're spending all that money you wouldn't then have Thorpe Park as your eastern terminus, when running through to York makes far more sense. Unfortunately you then run up against the issues of boundaries.

It'll take some investment, but it doesn't need to be that complicated. What's needed is service simplification. Stop all those nonsense LNER extensions beyond Leeds. Have all Harrogate, Airedale, Wharfedale and Bradford Interchange services terminate in the low numbered terminating platforms with segregated flows as much as possible. Expand western approaches and build two more platforms on the existing car park - should be relatively cheap as no demolitions of expensive properties. Organise the western approaches into the following independent systems:
- Harrogate, Airedale and Wharfedale share a two-track approach and 4 terminating platforms for 16-24 tph
- Bradford interchange come in as a self-contained two-track railway into 2 terminating platforms for 12tph
- West Riding line come in as a self-contained two-track railway into 3 terminating platforms
- Huddersfield and Hunslet come in as a two-track railway (long-term potentially four) going into the existing through platforms with most services running through towards York and Hull (Hunslet services probably terminate in platforms 13 and 17).

 

[Grumpy]

There aren’t any direct trains from Bradford to Sheffield.

You may be thinking of the Halifax to Hull train. But that is the fourth train per hour from Bradford Interchange to Leeds and they’re probably isn’t room for a fifth.

There is a reason why the ‘grand tour’, which used to run Selby-Leeds-Bradford-Huddersfield-Wakefield, was broken up.

ETA: you may also be thinking of Huddersfield to Sheffield via Penistone. That might work, although the long single track sections would require quite a lot of timetable re-jigging, but it is a slow train from Huddersfield to Sheffield and so it would have very limited utility from Bradford.

Tetcytyke
Yes I had a senior moment. I meant to refer to the Bradford to Huddersfield trains but typed in Sheffield by mistake.

 

[MichaelTrains]

The vast majority of cross-Pennine passengers to Leeds and York don't come anywhere near Bradford. They go via Huddersfield. The Calder Valley / Copy Pit market to Leeds and York is small.

It's silly having two main lines both operating as mixed railways. Concentrate all the non-stop services into a new (substantially) tunnelled route and release the existing Dewsbury and Pudsey routes to serve as all-stations metros. You run the Copy Pit and Halifax expresses in the new tunnel alongside the Manchester - Leeds NPR services. Then there are no through flows that need to be routed via Bradford.



It'll take some investment, but it doesn't need to be that complicated. What's needed is service simplification. Stop all those nonsense LNER extensions beyond Leeds. Have all Harrogate, Airedale, Wharfedale and Bradford Interchange services terminate in the low numbered terminating platforms with segregated flows as much as possible. Expand western approaches and build two more platforms on the existing car park - should be relatively cheap as no demolitions of expensive properties. Organise the western approaches into the following independent systems:
- Harrogate, Airedale and Wharfedale share a two-track approach and 4 terminating platforms for 16-24 tph
- Bradford interchange come in as a self-contained two-track railway into 2 terminating platforms for 12tph
- West Riding line come in as a self-contained two-track railway into 3 terminating platforms
- Huddersfield and Hunslet come in as a two-track railway (long-term potentially four) going into the existing through platforms with most services running through towards York and Hull (Hunslet services probably terminate in platforms 13 and 17).

What a ridiculous and selfish response.

The fact a new gateway station is being built in Bradford is exactly to cater for the demand of those through flows.

The fact that many trains arrive and leave Bradford Interchange full and standing in the peaks and at weekends is proof enough.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Perhaps also with Northern running four-car trains Wakefield to Sheffield with one starting at Bradford and the other Leeds giving Bradford a much-needed link to Sheffield.

It's one thing splitting a 10-car service to serve Leeds and Bradford, as that still gives a 5-car service into Leeds which is the far bigger destination- with there also being another service each hour to Leeds anyway.
Splitting a Sheffield service though, means only 2 cars running to Leeds- which rather defeats the object of the new semi-fast Sheffield to Leeds service.

The vast majority of cross-Pennine passengers to Leeds and York don't come anywhere near Bradford. They go via Huddersfield. The Calder Valley / Copy Pit market to Leeds and York is small.

It's silly having two main lines both operating as mixed railways. Concentrate all the non-stop services into a new (substantially) tunnelled route and release the existing Dewsbury and Pudsey routes to serve as all-stations metros. You run the Copy Pit and Halifax expresses in the new tunnel alongside the Manchester - Leeds NPR services. Then there are no through flows that need to be routed via Bradford.



It'll take some investment, but it doesn't need to be that complicated. What's needed is service simplification. Stop all those nonsense LNER extensions beyond Leeds. Have all Harrogate, Airedale, Wharfedale and Bradford Interchange services terminate in the low numbered terminating platforms with segregated flows as much as possible. Expand western approaches and build two more platforms on the existing car park - should be relatively cheap as no demolitions of expensive properties. Organise the western approaches into the following independent systems:
- Harrogate, Airedale and Wharfedale share a two-track approach and 4 terminating platforms for 16-24 tph
- Bradford interchange come in as a self-contained two-track railway into 2 terminating platforms for 12tph
- West Riding line come in as a self-contained two-track railway into 3 terminating platforms
- Huddersfield and Hunslet come in as a two-track railway (long-term potentially four) going into the existing through platforms with most services running through towards York and Hull (Hunslet services probably terminate in platforms 13 and 17).

Both routes have a mixture of short and longer-distance flows, so you can't entirely separate them out without either closing the local stations (good luck with that!) or building a new route (where's that magic money tree?).
Putting away the crayons both routes will have to continue operating a mixed pattern, it isn't perfect but it's what we've got to work with.

Separating the Bradford Interchange lines away from what you're calling the "West Riding" line (by which I assume you mean the line to Wakefield Westgate) would need more than just rebuilding the immediate Western throat- those routes currently share two tracks up to Armley junction, and separating them out would mean a complete rebuild of the Armley gyratory which the current formation straddles. That might well be a good thing once you've finished, but getting there would be extremely difficult and disruptive for the best part of a decade.

 

[Mr. SW]

I'm very much reminded of this:

Photo of a diagram showing the western approaches to Leeds (from Railways in West Yorkshire, A New Edition, A. Haigh, Dalesman 1978)
This diagram for a flyover presumably partially uses the GNR approaches to Leeds. How they would have fitted this all in is anyone's guess

 

[HSTEd]

The vast majority of cross-Pennine passengers to Leeds and York don't come anywhere near Bradford. They go via Huddersfield. The Calder Valley / Copy Pit market to Leeds and York is small.

It's silly having two main lines both operating as mixed railways. Concentrate all the non-stop services into a new (substantially) tunnelled route and release the existing Dewsbury and Pudsey routes to serve as all-stations metros. You run the Copy Pit and Halifax expresses in the new tunnel alongside the Manchester - Leeds NPR services. Then there are no through flows that need to be routed via Bradford.

I must admit I agree.
Little point running end to end traffic on the old railways when the new one is right there with higher performance and other advantages in operating cost and reliability terms.

I think I'd go one step further. If the new line stops at Huddersfield (which I feel it should if you want to get close to filling it) then the line west of Marsden is probably surplus to requirements - indeed the section between Marsden and Huddersfield becomes a sleepy backwater.

The railway could rid itself of the whole lot all the way back to Guide Bridge or even further in on the other route, and release any bits that TfGM want for conversion to Metrolink. Metrolink up to Diggle or whatnot. Marsden traffic to Manchester would in most cases be quicker with a double back via Huddersfield

The line via Halifax and Bradford can be dedicated solely for intermediate traffic and residual freight, which would give Bradford way more capacity to play with.

 

[NCT]

I think I'd go one step further. If the new line stops at Huddersfield (which I feel it should if you want to get close to filling it) then the line west of Marsden is probably surplus to requirements - indeed the section between Marsden and Huddersfield becomes a sleepy backwater.

The railway could rid itself of the whole lot all the way back to Guide Bridge or even further in on the other route, and release any bits that TfGM want for conversion to Metrolink. Metrolink up to Diggle or whatnot. Marsden traffic to Manchester would in most cases be quicker with a double back via Huddersfield

The line via Halifax and Bradford can be dedicated solely for intermediate traffic and residual freight, which would give Bradford way more capacity to play with.

Needn't be that drastic. Let's be clear, we will not be Beechinging anything - it's a complete non-starter. The post-NPR (in whatever guise) classic line via Stalybridge and Marsden is still a heavy-rail distance one and will be a key TransPennine freight corridor, and indeed current plan sees NPR services using the existing Marsden - Huddersfield line (only intermediate stop, relatively well aligned), and it's not even a given that Standedge tunnels will be duplicated. The geography of Mossley and Greenfield lends itself to 2-4tph heavy rail reasonably long trains, not a lot of little hunting trams. I agree with converting Guide Bridge local routes to Metrolink (tram train due to freight).

I know you don't like freight, but the government is spending £bns electrifying and gauge clearing the line to run all-day freight, for which the demand forecasts are reasonably solid.

 

[Sonik]

There’s not that much in it now. The Fastest train does Bradford to Manchester in 53 minutes, compared to about 47 minutes from Leeds to Manchester.

What wasn't said (directly) is that the best Leeds-Manchester time will be improved by TPU, I recall 40 mins was quoted (annoyingly I can't find the clip now!)

What was said is that they want the Bradford-Manchester time to be similar, which clearly would need a new, more direct route, between Bradford and Huddersfield.

This is obviously all quite speculative, but it does give some insight into the possible overall thinking here:

i.e. New Pudesy & Bramley served by the new Tram route; Calder Valley services terminating at Bradford's new station. Thus leaving Leeds-Bradford-Huddersfield to be used mostly as a limited stop route for longer distance trains, providing additional (albeit slightly less direct) Leeds-Manchester capacity over the two track Morley route.

 

[D6130]

Calder Valley services terminating at Bradford's new station. Thus

That'll go down like a lead balloon with the hundreds - if not thousands - of people who commute to Leeds from the Calder Valley every day.

 

[al78]

How do you solve a problem like Bradford?

 

[MichaelTrains]

That'll go down like a lead balloon with the hundreds - if not thousands - of people who commute to Leeds from the Calder Valley every day.

Yeah, I don’t think terminating anymore trains at Bradford anymore is the answer.

Interestingly, I bumped into Alex Ross Shaw earlier, and he said they were considering four to six platforms for the new Bradford station, with adjacent room for tram access similar to Manchester Victoria.

I know there are a lot of comments regarding the location of the new station but if linked by the new tram network then maybe it could work.

 

[D6130]

Yeah, I don’t think terminating anymore trains at Bradford anymore is the answer.

Interestingly, I bumped into Alex Ross Shaw earlier, and he said they were considering four to six platforms for the new Bradford station, with adjacent room for tram access similar to Manchester Victoria.

I know there are a lot of comments regarding the location of the new station but if linked by the new tram network then maybe it could work.

....if the new team network is ever built!

 

[xotGD]

Increasing the distance and hence minimum connection time between the two Bradford stations will make cross Bradford connections even less attractive and funnel even more passengers through Leeds.

 

[MichaelTrains]

Increasing the distance and hence minimum connection time between the two Bradford stations will make cross Bradford connections even less attractive and funnel even more passengers through Leeds.

The train side of the interchange isn't shutting. Only the bus station is as far as we know.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2026 ==

....if the new team network is ever built!

Yes, there is that uncertainty that needs a guarantee.

It would be the most Bradford thing to build the new station with no tram link to the Interchange and town centre.

 

[Sonik]

Increasing the distance and hence minimum connection time between the two Bradford stations will make cross Bradford connections even less attractive and funnel even more passengers through Leeds.

The proposed tram route goes between Foster Square and Leeds, with a direct connection at Foster Square. Passengers wishing to go south (e.g. Huddersfield) use the tram between Foster Sq and St James.

That'll go down like a lead balloon with the hundreds - if not thousands - of people who commute to Leeds from the Calder Valley every day.

They can change at St James; terminating Calder Valley trains here will relieve bays at Leeds. And since the turn-back & tight curve at Interchange are eliminated, it's not likely to be significantly slower.

For many passengers, the Tram route(s) will go closer to their final destination than Leeds station, so a change (to tram) at St James is not necessarily an inconvenience.

It would be the most Bradford thing to build the new station with no tram link to the Interchange and town centre.

Which is perhaps the whole point of choosing this order of work. It will become much harder to cancel the tram, once St James station is built, because a multitude of through connections will depend on the tram being there.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The proposed tram route goes between Foster Square and Leeds, with a direct connection at Foster Square. Passengers wishing to go south (e.g. Huddersfield) use the tram between Foster Sq and St James.


They can change at St James; terminating Calder Valley trains here will relieve bays at Leeds. And since the turn-back & tight curve at Interchange are eliminated, it's not likely to be significantly slower.

For many passengers, the Tram route(s) will go closer to their final destination than Leeds station, so a change (to tram) at St James is not necessarily an inconvenience.



Which is perhaps the whole point of choosing this order of work. It will become much harder to cancel the tram, once St James station is built, because a multitude of through connections will depend on the tram being there.

This is still a very silly idea with lots of downsides and very few tenuous upsides. We've gone from "it'll cut Calder Valley journey times" to "Calder Valley to Leeds passengers will have to change, but it'll be okay because at least there's no slow approach to Interchange".

Shafting Bradford passengers wanting the city centre (and Calder Valley to Leeds commuters too) just to "force the hand" of Central Government into funding the tram is frankly, complete and utter guano.

 

[xotGD]

The train side of the interchange isn't shutting. Only the bus station is as far as we know.

That's what I thought, but other posters have corrected me.

The new station will replace Interchange according to announcements.