How do you solve a problem like Bradford?

[nr758123]

The St James proposal is utterly bonkers nonsense from Bradford City Council, and if I was a ratepayer in the city centre I'd be starting petitions to recall every single councillor who's supports it.

Yes and no.

People like the idea of big investments taking place in their area, especially with the perception that for a very long time London gets all the money and places like Bradford get next to nothing. Even if they have no intention of using it, many will still like the idea that their city gets something good.

The council leader is not going to become popular by saying that Bradford doesn't want the big investment, in the form of Northern Powerhouse Rail with a new station in the city, and that the money should be spent elsewhere. If (when) it doesn't happen, she can blame the government.

It's only when you start looking more closely at the idea, with a new station nowhere near the city centre and not even connected to the existing rail network for the northern half of the city, and with eleven years having passed since the idea was first put forward by George Osborne but still no idea of how practicable it is to build it, that the whole NPR thing begins to look like a lot of wasted paper with no chance of it happening.

 

[YorksLad12]

When the original interchange was built, there was a bus depot underneath the bus station (and this is the cause of the structural issues) with the bus boarding bays above. The old bus station was much larger than the current one (which was built around the turn of the millennium) and had multiple islands of bays, with separate stairwells from the undercroft to each one. One advantage with having the bus bays (both current and original) at the higher level is that it removed the need for pedestrians to cross bus carriageways on the level. Having a new bus station at ground level would introduce a conflict there.

I remember it well... there were crossing points on the bus deck too, although people tended to walk willy-nilly.

A feature of the old bus deck was that it had more stands than could actually be used. It was designed for 10m-long buses; between design and opening, buses got longer. So instead of buses on stands A1, A2, A3, etc they had to go A1, A3, A5, etc. This is where the drive in-reverse out style works over the drive through style (Interchange currently has both, weirdly, one along each long side). But if not offices above a ground-level bus station, then perhaps some sort of staff parking area, if only in part? This would allow the existing area alongside P1 to be cleared for a new P0, which would suffice for an extension. Interchange has sort-of sidings on either side of P1 and P4, the latter with little chance of being converted into anything as it's right up against the retaining wall.

 

[MichaelTrains]

Once TRU is complete, is there scope to run more, possibly non-stop, services between Leeds and Sowerby Bridge via Dewsbury?

How does that benefit Bradford? It doesn't.

You'd be better off having a dedicated Heben Bridge to Leeds via Bradford Interchange service only calling at Halifax and Bradford.

I know we have the Wigan’s running fast at the moment but once they revert back there will be no fast Leeds-Bradford service.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The piers for the Croft Street bridge might be an issue if shuffling platforms around, but Interchange is where the Mass Transit route is supposed to call or pass by (last I saw), so space for a couple of tram platforms might be in order. Quicker and easier to kick Grand Central out though...

From a ‘benefits to Bradford’ perspective why would you want to get rid of Grand Central?

Is it just a decongestion/ better performance idea or would you replace the (intermittent) services with something else?

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Local authority data is best for growth rates because the boundaries don't change.

Really? Local Government boundaries frequently change, particularly when unitary authorities replace counties and districts.

 

[Magdalia]

Really? Local Government boundaries frequently change, particularly when unitary authorities replace counties and districts.

Yes. Until now new unitary authorities have used the district council boundaries, either one to one matches or new unitary authorities being amalgamations of existing districts.

 

[YorksLad12]

There's no need to kick GC out though. Extending the two shorter platforms to match the longer ones would give some much-needed flexibility.

From a ‘benefits to Bradford’ perspective why would you want to get rid of Grand Central?

Is it just a decongestion/ better performance idea or would you replace the (intermittent) services with something else?

Slightly, it was a wind up in that removing GC and having a two-car unit doing the Bradford-Pontefract route would be a cheaper option. If really desperate for platform space the unit could be moved to a siding somewhere (there must be one…). But does the rail part of Interchange need fixing? Updating, yes, but it still works well.

 

[Andyh82]

This is where the drive in-reverse out style works over the drive through style (Interchange currently has both, weirdly, one along each long side).

At the time it was being built, bendy buses were seen as being a thing, and indeed First Bradford did operate some on the 617/618 at the time, so some flat stands were built to accommodate them. As we know bendy buses were a short lived, so all stands are now used by normal single door buses.


In regards to the future of the bus station and now no proposals ever seem to talk about using the same site, I wonder if WYCA and the council know that demolishing it would be a massive undertaking, especially when you think about all the connecting buildings and the Santander building. Doing that and then building a new bus station on the same site may take far too long, and may have too big a price tag. Bus passengers would be waiting on the street for three years plus

 

[TheGrew]

Urban Cable Car?

 

[Grumpy]

At the time it was being built, bendy buses were seen as being a thing, and indeed First Bradford did operate some on the 617/618 at the time, so some flat stands were built to accommodate them. As we know bendy buses were a short lived, so all stands are now used by normal single door buses.

I'm not sure that's quite right. Articulated buses (carrying fare-paying passengers)weren't legal in this country until approx 1980. I remember being invited to a ride on the MAN demonstrator which I seem to recall needed a special permit.
The Interchange bus station brief was prepared several years before

 

[YorksLad12]

I'm not sure that's quite right. Articulated buses (carrying fare-paying passengers)weren't legal in this country until approx 1980. I remember being invited to a ride on the MAN demonstrator which I seem to recall needed a special permit.
The Interchange bus station brief was prepared several years before

Yes. but Interchange was rebuilt with a mix of DIRO and drive-through stands around 25 years ago, so after the bendy buses were introduced (service 72, Bradford-Leeds, was one route).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm not sure that's quite right. Articulated buses (carrying fare-paying passengers)weren't legal in this country until approx 1980. I remember being invited to a ride on the MAN demonstrator which I seem to recall needed a special permit.
The Interchange bus station brief was prepared several years before

You're thinking of the original Interchange bus station- @Andyh82 was talking about the current structure which was built around 25 years ago:

Yes. but Interchange was rebuilt with a mix of DIRO and drive-through stands around 25 years ago, so after the bendy buses were introduced (service 72, Bradford-Leeds, was one route).

Yes, the 72 ran with the Wright Streetcar "ftr" vehicles for a good few years.

 

[xotGD]

Hopefully closure of the bus station will not mean closure of the toilets. Or Greggs.

 

[Halifaxlad]

The closure is mooted for the Bradford Interchange bus station, which has just been closed for a year due to structural problems. The Combined Authority have recently put out a tender for a business study to decide what, if anything, replaces it.

The railway station isn’t affected. Indeed, the railway station predates the bus station, being built several years before the bus station as a replacement for the old Exchange station. When it opened it was even called Bradford Exchange.

People who bang on about tunnelling between Interchange and Forster Square are the sorts who look at a map and think it must be easy. Anyone who knows Bradford knows it won’t be. Tunnel underneath Forster Square and all you will get is wet feet because there’s a culverted river right where the crayonistas would put their tunnel and their central station.


It isn’t, because it’s not intended to replace the city centre stations, it is intended to be on Northern Powerhouse Rail. Clearly they don’t want that being tunnelled through the city centre so want to keep it off to one side.

And given that I’ve got more chance of marrying Keira Knightley than I have of seeing Northern Powerhouse Rail ever getting built…

Whilst it's claimed to be part of 'Northern Powerhouse Rail' this proposal is essentially a station as part of the existing rail network connected into it. NPR for some sections will merely be NPR services upon existing lines. The 'in full' version of NPR 'some' Bradford politicans are calling for involves an underground station for Bradford. Due to the track curvature of the proposed station will result in the existing interchange station having to be closed! So yes actually quite bonkers!

The pragmatic solution would be to construct a South to North East chord across where St Dunstans used to be then to build a new through station below Wakefield Rd.h That way the existing interchange wouldn't have to close and Grand Central would be able to remain.

Crossing Bradford wouldn't be a bad idea either although it would require a long viaduct, the trouble is when crossing Bradford is mooted the conversation is usually about North to South, but if it went West to North through the St James site then you could extend BFS terminators to Leeds. Yes it would have to go over the back of The Broadway shopping centre which is single storey and would probably warrant that part of be rebuilt but the centre could remain operating as it is at present minus a few shops in the short term.

With a North to East chord you could
run Carlisle and Morecambe services through Bradford and even freight services too. Couple that with the Wortley curve and you got more capacity between Leeds and Shipley junction. Who knows you could potentially even have SELRAP trains through Bradford if Skipton to Colne was reopened.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm not sure that's quite right. Articulated buses (carrying fare-paying passengers)weren't legal in this country until approx 1980.

Yes. but Interchange was rebuilt with a mix of DIRO and drive-through stands around 25 years ago, so after the bendy buses were introduced (service 72, Bradford-Leeds, was one route).

The original Interchange bus station was all drive-through. The ‘new’ bus station had a mix. Not sure it had anything to do with bendy buses, more to do with space on the site. There’s not the room for DIRO on both sides because of the office blocks.

If the bus station is replaced, I’d flatten the whole block including the Queens pub and the ex-Hilton hotel. What was Hall Ings is so much better without the multi-storey car park, we need to finish the job.

Crossing Bradford wouldn't be a bad idea either although it would require a long viaduct

That would be an quite outstandingly terrible idea. A huge concrete viaduct looming over the city centre is the exact opposite of a good idea. We’ve just got rid of all the concrete looming over the city centre, we don’t need more.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Whilst it's claimed to be part of 'Northern Powerhouse Rail' this proposal is essentially a station as part of the existing rail network connected into it. NPR for some sections will merely be NPR services upon existing lines. The 'in full' version of NPR 'some' Bradford politicans are calling for involves an underground station for Bradford. Due to the track curvature of the proposed station will result in the existing interchange station having to be closed! So yes actually quite bonkers!

The pragmatic solution would be to construct a South to North East chord across where St Dunstans used to be then to build a new through station below Wakefield Rd.h That way the existing interchange wouldn't have to close and Grand Central would be able to remain.

Crossing Bradford wouldn't be a bad idea either although it would require a long viaduct, the trouble is when crossing Bradford is mooted the conversation is usually about North to South, but if it went West to North through the St James site then you could extend BFS terminators to Leeds. Yes it would have to go over the back of The Broadway shopping centre which is single storey and would probably warrant that part of be rebuilt but the centre could remain operating as it is at present minus a few shops in the short term.

With a North to East chord you could
run Carlisle and Morecambe services through Bradford and even freight services too. Couple that with the Wortley curve and you got more capacity between Leeds and Shipley junction. Who knows you could potentially even have SELRAP trains through Bradford if Skipton to Colne was reopened.

You're only one "Tweedbank to Carlisle" away from Speculative Discussion Bingo with that post!

 

[fishwomp]

That would be an quite outstandingly terrible idea. A huge concrete viaduct looming over the city centre is the exact opposite of a good idea. We’ve just got rid of all the concrete looming over the city centre, we don’t need more.

Isn't that the Bradford problem in a nutshell?

If Bradford were growing, concrete would be going up everywhere - like Leeds and Manchester. Then everyone would be crying out for cross city connections like a tram, a viaduct, a tunnel etc. as some way of de-snarling the traffic and bringing in workers.

But it's not .. and a rail link won't fix that by itself.

 

[Halifaxlad]

The original Interchange bus station was all drive-through. The ‘new’ bus station had a mix. Not sure it had anything to do with bendy buses, more to do with space on the site. There’s not the room for DIRO on both sides because of the office blocks.

If the bus station is replaced, I’d flatten the whole block including the Queens pub and the ex-Hilton hotel. What was Hall Ings is so much better without the multi-storey car park, we need to finish the job.


That would be an quite outstandingly terrible idea. A huge concrete viaduct looming over the city centre is the exact opposite of a good idea. We’ve just got rid of all the concrete looming over the city centre, we don’t need more.

I don't think a concrete viaduct, if it was to be a concrete viaduct as it could be made out of corten steel would drastically change the appeal of Bradford Forster Square retail Park.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If Bradford were growing, concrete would be going up everywhere - like Leeds and Manchester. Then everyone would be crying out for cross city connections like a tram, a viaduct, a tunnel etc. as some way of de-snarling the traffic and bringing in workers.

They really wouldn’t.

It is less than half a mile from the Interchange to Forster Square station, and that’s after they moved Forster Square station 400 yards up the line when they redeveloped it in the early 90s.

I don't think a concrete viaduct, if it was to be a concrete viaduct as it could be made out of corten steel would drastically change the appeal of Bradford Forster Square retail Park.

It would separate the city centre from Little Germany and it would be a wall of concrete/steel/whatever. It would be as bad as, and probably worse than, the old Forster Square/Petergate/Hall Ings.

As a proud Bradfordian, I really don’t get why so many people get their crayons out with grandiose plans to destroy the city centre. The two stations do not need to be linked. They have never needed to be linked. They will never need to be linked. The end.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2025 ==

You're only one "Tweedbank to Carlisle" away from Speculative Discussion Bingo with that post!

Nobody’s demanded we re-open the Shipley to Laisterdyke line yet. Give it time…

 

[fishwomp]

They really wouldn’t.

It is less than half a mile from the Interchange to Forster Square station, and that’s after they moved Forster Square station 400 yards up the line when they redeveloped it in the early 90s.

not to mention when they moved Exchange to Interchange.. If both were restored to their original location, the gap buffer stop to buffer stop looks to be around about 400 metres, about the length of a Eurostar train ..

As a proud Bradfordian, I really don’t get why so many people get their crayons out with grandiose plans to destroy the city centre. The two stations do not need to be linked. They have never needed to be linked. They will never need to be linked. The end.

As I said, a tram link would also be the sign of a more booming demand..

In the days of trams, they were probably too close to directly linked, but 1970s and 1980s planning vandalism changed that.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As a proud Bradfordian, I really don’t get why so many people get their crayons out with grandiose plans to destroy the city centre. The two stations do not need to be linked. They have never needed to be linked. They will never need to be linked. The end.

I've mentioned before that the oft-suggested cross-city link wouldn't do much to help the city itself, as it always seems to be about the handful of Brighouse to Keighley passengers or about sending everything to Leeds. Either that or "buffer-stop-phobia".

 

[Halifaxlad]

As a proud Bradfordian, I really don’t get why so many people get their crayons out with grandiose plans to destroy the city centre. The two stations do not need to be linked. They have never needed to be linked. They will never need to be linked. The end.

Yet Little Germany is already disjointed from the City Centre by the Broadway Shopping Centre.

FYI I do not support converting Forster Square into a through station or Bradford Interchange for that matter as both are useful temini.

 

[cle]

Additional signals, approach lines or platforms for increasing service at Interchange would be the best solution - or an avoiding curve and a new through station - with plenty of development around it - might enable higher frequency.

I definitely think a second service to Preston would be of value, although I think that really has to get to Leeds also.

More Bradford-Manchester service is always welcome too. The fastest journey I can see is 53 mins, which is a little long for daily commuting. Especially up north! Getting to 40 or 45 mins might see a lot more opportunities for the people of Bradford to take on Manchester roles more sustainably. It's a very windy railway - I'd think the Victoria-Rochdale stretch, maybe to Tod - would be the best place for speeding up. Or Bradford-Halifax.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A third station on an avoiding curve (whether at Bowling or at Mill Lane) would be a stupid idea. The one positive about the idea of linking the two lines would be replacing the two stations with one single one. There's no point in further splitting the service to Leeds (by far the main destination) to a third station that's some distance from the city centre. If capacity at Interchange needs increasing further, then Interchange should be expanded. The reversals are only a problem that needs to be solved in some people's heads, not in reality.

 

[HSTEd]

Urban Cable Car?

Well there is a route between the two Bradford stations that doesn't pass over many (or any) domestic properties. So it could probably be done.

I suppose you could create a route that runs between Bradford Forster Square, Bradford Interchange and a new southern station on a restored through chord - allowing the reversal to be eliminated.

Indeed, for a total length of ~5.4km (~12 minutes or so), you could replace the entire line from Shipley with an urban ropeway.

With cabins every 20 seconds or less the interchange wouldn't be too onerous and it would make the operational headache go away.

 

[Bantamzen]

A third station on an avoiding curve (whether at Bowling or at Mill Lane) would be a stupid idea. The one positive about the idea of linking the two lines would be replacing the two stations with one single one. There's no point in further splitting the service to Leeds (by far the main destination) to a third station that's some distance from the city centre. If capacity at Interchange needs increasing further, then Interchange should be expanded. The reversals are only a problem that needs to be solved in some people's heads, not in reality.

It would be, especially given that said station would be even further away & higher up from the city centre than the proposed NPR one. Who wants to be despotised in an industrial area 20-25 mins from the centre, especially after dark?

 

[YorksLad12]

A third station on an avoiding curve (whether at Bowling or at Mill Lane) would be a stupid idea. The one positive about the idea of linking the two lines would be replacing the two stations with one single one. There's no point in further splitting the service to Leeds (by far the main destination) to a third station that's some distance from the city centre. If capacity at Interchange needs increasing further, then Interchange should be expanded. The reversals are only a problem that needs to be solved in some people's heads, not in reality.

If I was crayoning, I‘d suggest turning the station 45° anticlockwise so that you could approach the station from the former Adolphus Street site, thus cutting out the large curve and saving a minute or two… yeah, right…

Ultimately, we’re trying to solve a problem that isn’t a problem; not for the railway nor the millions of passengers who use both stations every year.

 

[fishwomp]

Ultimately, we’re trying to solve a problem that isn’t a problem; not for the railway nor the millions of passengers who use both stations every year.

Hang on though.. if millions of passengers means that there is no problem.. then surely a lack of passengers means that there is a problem? In which case, should we not be getting the crayons out for Pontefract? Surely Baghill to Monkhill is crying out for a solution??

 

[YorksLad12]

Hang on though.. if millions of passengers means that there is no problem.. then surely a lack of passengers means that there is a problem? In which case, should we not be getting the crayons out for Pontefract? Surely Baghill to Monkhill is crying out for a solution??

There was a solution - it got canned under Beeching, and half of the curve now has a low-rise warehouse-style building on it. The bridge over the A645 is still there though. If the link was still there, York-Sheffield services could divert via Castleford. But it isn't, so they can't.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Regardless as to our opinions on Bradford.

I think we all need reminding that it's politicans now who are pushing for a through stations, it's politicans with 'reversal anxiety', it's politicans claiming there is no capacity.

The goverment will be keen to demonstrate investment in Bradford and if the Council gets their way it will likely see the closure of the existing Interchange station which I don't believe is a good idea.

To those criticising the location of a through station upon the existing line, you may be interested to know that one of the NPR options for a new line was to bypass Bradford and have a sort spur to a terminus which would be even further away.