Reading Buses and Thames Valley

[Mark J]

Regarding Reading Buses route 12 (Reading to Twyford) and Thames Valley 227 (Twyford to Maidenhead).

Thames Valley have run the 127 for years on a Saturday. They've shown zero interest in the past in expanding the service to a weekday operation.

Low and behold, when someone else does (Carousel) , they then decide to do so to, with the 227 route.

The simple fact is that there is not enough bus passenger traffic to support two rival operators on the Twyford to Maidenhead (via the A4) corridor.

I've been on a 127 in the week to Maidenhead with only a couple of other people on board. On one occasion, I was the only person on the bus coming back!

If Thames Valley's actions result in Carousel withdrawing the weekday 127 service, and negative amendments to the 850; Then there will be complaints forthcoming, not only to Thames Valley management, but also local MPs. I know a number of people who are angry at Thames Valley's actions and are prepared to boycott their services as a result.

I'm personally a staunch supporter of Carousel in the East Reading area. They provide a good service up to Henley, Marlow and Wycombe. Plus they opened up the Maidenhead corridor to weekday traffic. I avoid the competing services by RB and TV.

It is the same with the recent 12 service. There is little justification for this additional service between Reading and Twyford.

If Reading Buses/Thames Valley want to start playing silly buggers, then maybe Carousel should start running buses on the old 800 route (Wycombe to Reading via Caversham).

As far as I can see, there was an informal agreement when Arriva pulled out of the 800/850 running.

Reading Buses would run the 800 (now 28 Aqua) without competition. Carousel, the 850 without competition.

It just seems RB/TV have gone against the spirit of this.

Reading Buses need to concentrate on their core network, rather than trying to pathetically compete on low traffic/profit routes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2025 ==

The Carousel 52 is another commercial venture that competes with a pre-existing Thames Valley contracted route, in this case the 53 (albeit only over a small section between Maidenhead and Holyport).

When I've seen a 12 go past, there has either been no one on it, or one/two passengers at best. They also stupidly run double deckers on the route - which is overkill.

It is a pointless service that serves little purpose, other than poke a stick at Carousel.

 

[cactustwirly]

Regarding Reading Buses route 12 (Reading to Twyford) and Thames Valley 227 (Twyford to Maidenhead).

Thames Valley have run the 127 for years on a Saturday. They've shown zero interest in the past in expanding the service to a weekday operation.

Low and behold, when someone else does (Carousel) , they then decide to do so to, with the 227 route.

The simple fact is that there is not enough bus passenger traffic to support two rival operators on the Twyford to Maidenhead (via the A4) corridor.

I've been on a 127 in the week to Maidenhead with only a couple of other people on board. On one occasion, I was the only person on the bus coming back!

If Thames Valley's actions result in Carousel withdrawing the weekday 127 service, and negative amendments to the 850; Then there will be complaints forthcoming, not only to Thames Valley management, but also local MPs. I know a number of people who are angry at Thames Valley's actions and are prepared to boycott their services as a result.

I'm personally a staunch supporter of Carousel in the East Reading area. They provide a good service up to Henley, Marlow and Wycombe. Plus they opened up the Maidenhead corridor to weekday traffic. I avoid the competing services by RB and TV.

It is the same with the recent 12 service. There is little justification for this additional service between Reading and Twyford.

If Reading Buses/Thames Valley want to start playing silly buggers, then maybe Carousel should start running buses on the old 800 route (Wycombe to Reading via Caversham).

As far as I can see, there was an informal agreement when Arriva pulled out of the 800/850 running.

Reading Buses would run the 800 (now 28 Aqua) without competition. Carousel, the 850 without competition.

It just seems RB/TV have gone against the spirit of this.

Reading Buses need to concentrate on their core network, rather than trying to pathetically compete on low traffic/profit routes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2025 ==


When I've seen a 12 go past, there has either been no one on it, or one/two passengers at best. They also stupidly run double deckers on the route - which is overkill.

It is a pointless service that serves little purpose, other than poke a stick at Carousel.

I agree 100%

Reading buses have not been remotely interested in running any buses in Twyford for 20 years.
They inherited the 127, 128 and 129 from Courtney who got it from Thames Travel.

We have an operator who has taken the financial risk and genuinely improved the bus services.
It looks very hypocritical of Reading Council who are always moaning too many cars in Reading, so they should be encouraging buses rather trying to stamp them out

I know people in the area are encouraging others to take the carousel bus over the 12

 

[Flange Squeal]

It is a pointless service that serves little purpose, other than poke a stick at Carousel.

You could just as easily be describing Carousel's 52, which runs along a section of Thames Valley's pre-existing 53 and only offers a handful of trips between around 9am and 2pm, and which was launched before Reading Buses/Thames Valley came up with their 12/20. Similar situation with Carousel's 7A, which runs over part of Thames Valley's established 7, albeit that competes for a longer period of the day.

Although I note from Carousel's website that they have finally seen sense and are admitting defeat on their pointless 52, which did nothing but compete with Thames Valley for a few hours a day between Maidenhead and Stroud Farm Estate. They look to be launching a couple of new routes in Maidenhead in the New Year though, but as yet no publicity for these bar the following appearing on their list of routes on the website (linked to below). They have now uploaded details of the Slough to Uxbridge 458 route that they are launching on First's established corridor from 4th January though.

4A (from 4th January 2026)​

Maidenhead to Summerleaze

8 (from 4th January 2026)​

Maidenhead to Halifax Road
via St Mark's Hospital

52 (until 23rd December 2025)​

Maidenhead to Holyport
via Bray Wick

Source: https://www.carouselbuses.co.uk/services

 

[Mark J]

I agree 100%

Reading buses have not been remotely interested in running any buses in Twyford for 20 years.
They inherited the 127, 128 and 129 from Courtney who got it from Thames Travel.

We have an operator who has taken the financial risk and genuinely improved the bus services.
It looks very hypocritical of Reading Council who are always moaning too many cars in Reading, so they should be encouraging buses rather trying to stamp them out

I know people in the area are encouraging others to take the carousel bus over the 12

Yes, I know a few people like that.

One lives near Palmer Park, and will only take the 127 and 850 into town, and in the opposite direction. As he feels those services need the custom more than Reading Buses/Thames Valley. Plus as you say, Carousel have taken the financial risk (without subsidy) to provide an improved 850 and the 127 to Maidenhead in the week.

What annoys me with the 227, is that it is deliberately run a few minutes before the 127. Clearly to try and nab the passengers waiting for the 127. There are also long gaps between services.

I really cannot see what is to be gained from all this, other than Reading Buses desire to see Carousel out of the Reading area.

Around a year ago I attended the retirement party of a long standing member of Reading Buses.

One of the Managers of Reading Buses was in attendance. I overheard him say 'we don't want Carousel in the area.'

All well and good for them, but will Reading Buses then provide the exact same services, for the same fares. If they succeed in eliminating Carousel.

Of course not.

At present I can do Reading to Maidenhead for £4.40 return with a Carousel Zone C ticket. The same journey using Reading Buses would cost £12 with singles (due to having to change buses at Twyford), or £8.50 with a Simply Network all day ticket.

I stopped using the train to Maidenhead, due to the now ridiculous undiscounted fare (unable to get network RC discount in the week).

 

[Flange Squeal]

Regarding Reading Buses route 12 (Reading to Twyford) and Thames Valley 227 (Twyford to Maidenhead).

Thames Valley have run the 127 for years on a Saturday. They've shown zero interest in the past in expanding the service to a weekday operation.

Low and behold, when someone else does (Carousel) , they then decide to do so to, with the 227 route.

The simple fact is that there is not enough bus passenger traffic to support two rival operators on the Twyford to Maidenhead (via the A4) corridor.

The 227 isn't just some commercial competitive route Thames Valley set up - it was awarded to them by Royal Borough of Windsor & Maidenhead Council as part of the tendering exercise.

 

[Mark J]

The 227 isn't just some commercial competitive route Thames Valley set up - it was awarded to them by Royal Borough of Windsor & Maidenhead Council as part of the tendering exercise.

It is still a pointless route.

There is not the traffic between Twyford and Maidenhead to justify two competing services.

The 127 largely runs empty between Twyford and the edge of Maidenhead. The most I've seen on the 127 between these destinations has been seven people.

 

[Flange Squeal]

It is still a pointless route.

There is not the traffic between Twyford and Maidenhead to justify two competing services.

The 127 largely runs empty between Twyford and the edge of Maidenhead. The most I've seen on the 127 between these destinations has been seven people.

It may well not be necessary capacity over the corridor, but the council tendered for it and Thames Valley won it. They didn't just "decide to do so" as you claim. The 227/227A also offers a bus service to the residents of Waltham St Lawrence and Shurlock Row.

If Carousel's commercial 127 "largely runs empty between Twyford and the edge of Maidenhead" as you say, then maybe it is the commercial service that is unnecessary?

I just don't understand how you can put the blame on Thames Valley for perceived over bussing on that corridor, when they are merely operating a tendered service on behalf of the council!

 

[nctd2306]

Whilst looking on the bustimes.org map I noticed a that a certain YN54 AEX appeared to be tracking, despite having been retired a year ago
But I'm also aware that it was never disposed of and was retained by Reading buses as a heritage vehicle, so my question is, how likely is it that this is real? My guess would be a ticket machine swap but if anyone can look out for whatever vehicle it's tracking as and confirm one way or the other, that would be appreciated

 

[Mark L]

Whilst looking on the bustimes.org map I noticed a that a certain YN54 AEX appeared to be tracking, despite having been retired a year ago
But I'm also aware that it was never disposed of and was retained by Reading buses as a heritage vehicle, so my question is, how likely is it that this is real? My guess would be a ticket machine swap but if anyone can look out for whatever vehicle it's tracking as and confirm one way or the other, that would be appreciated

It’s real! There are extra buses running in connection with graduation day at the university so it’s been pressed into service.

 

[nctd2306]

It’s real! There are extra buses running in connection with graduation day at the university so it’s been pressed into service.

Awesome! I'll definitely be seeking it out for a ride at the weekend if it's still out.
I am surprised though that they've put it on one of the regular "town" routes and not the actual uni shuttle!

 

[Mark L]

Awesome! I'll definitely be seeking it out for a ride at the weekend if it's still out.
I am surprised though that they've put it on one of the regular "town" routes and not the actual uni shuttle!

The graduation days are today, tomorrow and Friday. I doubt it’ll be in service after that but who knows? That said, Reading are playing away on Saturday so there won’t be any football services.

 

[Beemax]

Saw it in Town this afternoon and assumed it was a staff-only goodbye special. I think the plan is to get rid of it or use it for spares for the preserved 805

 

[MaidaVale]

I'll be honest, I really don't get the whole anti-Readingbuses pro-Carousel spiel that's been going on above at all.

I don't think the 12 was the best move commercially, and was a very odd move from RB, but Carousel have been known to do very similar things (some outlined by others above) in a number of areas, not just Reading. Their recent expansions into the Reading and Maidenhead areas (Commercially, not counting the council tenders) have been just as 'predatory' so to speak and appear to be just as set on provoking RB/TV as the 12 is to Carousel. I don't really see the need for a direct Reading to Maidenhead bus all that much in it's current form anyway (apart from to serve the villages in-between). It's nice to have, but the train is 5x faster and 5x more frequent, as well as operating from very early into the morning into the late evening (and all night every night apart from Saturdays). Also only costs £4.70 with contactless, and that's without a railcard. Whereas it's a decent bit more expensive than the bus, it pays for itself in convenience, frequency and speed.

There's no doubt that for the most part, Readingbuses also provide a much more premium and more consistent service than Carousel do. Readingbuses routes are well branded, with well presented vehicles that are consistent in appearance and often have pretty comfortable seats suitable for longer journeys as well as other onboard amenities. The buses branded for the 12 are admittedly just some old JetBlack buses from 2016 with some paint slapped on, but they do at least have USB chargers and high back seats, as well as a consistent brand. TV are however less consistent and well presented on their Twyford-area routes.

Carousel mostly operates an eclectic mix of random guff on the 850, the average vehicle age on a normal day being 15 years old in a random assortment of liveries (a number of which aren't even their own), a random number of decks and mostly with low-specification interiors (again, a number of which are from other random operators). The 127 operates with new but pretty bog standard near dealer-spec E200MMCs, which are no better than what Thames Valley offer on their routes.

 

[hornbeam]

Really agree with you MaidaVale. Go ahead have been poking at Reading transport for a while. Another example is extending their 33 into shiplake running just ahead of Reading’s 28. Go ahead seem to have become a little more aggressive and I suspect, unlike in other areas, Reading transport is not just going to do nothing and are rightly protecting their business. We have a big group that are privately owned nipping away at a much smaller quality well run publicly owned company- I know which I’d rather see survive and grow.

 

[cactustwirly]

I'll be honest, I really don't get the whole anti-Readingbuses pro-Carousel spiel that's been going on above at all.

I don't think the 12 was the best move commercially, and was a very odd move from RB, but Carousel have been known to do very similar things (some outlined by others above) in a number of areas, not just Reading. Their recent expansions into the Reading and Maidenhead areas (Commercially, not counting the council tenders) have been just as 'predatory' so to speak and appear to be just as set on provoking RB/TV as the 12 is to Carousel. I don't really see the need for a direct Reading to Maidenhead bus all that much in it's current form anyway (apart from to serve the villages in-between). It's nice to have, but the train is 5x faster and 5x more frequent, as well as operating from very early into the morning into the late evening (and all night every night apart from Saturdays). Also only costs £4.70 with contactless, and that's without a railcard. Whereas it's a decent bit more expensive than the bus, it pays for itself in convenience, frequency and speed.

There's no doubt that for the most part, Readingbuses also provide a much more premium and more consistent service than Carousel do. Readingbuses routes are well branded, with well presented vehicles that are consistent in appearance and often have pretty comfortable seats suitable for longer journeys as well as other onboard amenities. The buses branded for the 12 are admittedly just some old JetBlack buses from 2016 with some paint slapped on, but they do at least have USB chargers and high back seats, as well as a consistent brand. TV are however less consistent and well presented on their Twyford-area routes.

Carousel mostly operates an eclectic mix of random guff on the 850, the average vehicle age on a normal day being 15 years old in a random assortment of liveries (a number of which aren't even their own), a random number of decks and mostly with low-specification interiors (again, a number of which are from other random operators). The 127 operates with new but pretty bog standard near dealer-spec E200MMCs, which are no better than what Thames Valley offer on their routes.

A more "premium" service is useless if it doesn't operate evenings or Sundays. I don't care about the USB sockets etc

The buses on the 850 are consistently the same double deckers, some with high back seats, the outside liveries are a bit tatty I understand that.

 

[Thames99]

This Facebook group has photos of electric buses 1 and 3 being used on University graduation day shuttles. The depot chargers are still waiting to be connected by the electricity board it seems, so we are still waiting for a more general entry into service.

 

[cactustwirly]

New ticket machines have rolled out
They don't scan mobile tickets very well compared to the other ones, takes a good few attempts at different angles

 

[Non Multi]

New ticket machines have rolled out
They don't scan mobile tickets very well compared to the other ones, takes a good few attempts at different angles

I found that the stickers showing you where to position your QR code isn't in the right place. It's too far back under the scanner. The driver had to hold the ticket in the correct one for it to scan on my last journey.

 

[Thames99]

New the new machines seem to read cards much faster than the old ones.

 

[MaidaVale]

The buses on the 850 are consistently the same double deckers

As well as the addition of ex-NXWM Eclipse 2s relatively often which have tatty low back seats.

I'd use the 850 between Reading and Twyford over the 12 out of convenience, I agree with you there, and Sunday/Evening service is obviously an advantage, but my main point was against the odd anti-Readingbuses stance that MarkJ was eluding to from people living in East Reading around Palmer Park, Newtown, London Road and Shepherds Hill, in which Readingbuses provide an obviously much more consistent, higher level and higher quality of service with the 13/14 (and of course the 17 and 4/4a for people living around Palmer Park).

Avoiding Readingbuses for those sorts of journeys in order to take Carousel's objectively much less frequent, lower quality and less consistent services is simply irrational and an incredibly strange sentiment to hold, especially if your reasoning is "I think Readingbuses are being to over-competitive with Carousel" when again Carousel are objectively doing the same things back.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Following First's recent network changes in Slough, Thames Valley's contracted Sunday and Public Holiday (and single evening trip) service on the 12 between Slough and Burnham is being renumbered 6 and re-routed to match the First-operated Mon-Sat service.

There's been no word yet on whether they are considering adding a Sunday service to their 704 (Maidenhead - Slough - Heathrow) in response to First withdrawing from the Maidenhead to Slough corridor.

Service 12 to become Service 6 from Sunday 4th January​

Yesterday Fri 2nd Jan 2026

Our service to Burnham is funded by Slough and Buckinghamshire local authorities to supplement the commercial service operated by First Bus.
Recently, First Bus made some changes to the route and timetable, and also renumbered their service 12 to a revised service 6.
To keep things simple for customers, from Sunday 4th January we are changing our Service 12 also, to Service 6 taking the same route as that taken by First, which includes a revised route along Stoke Poges Lane. We are also changing our times on Monday to Saturday evenings to depart Slough at 20:20 so that we are not running at similar times to the First Bus service.
Buses will start from Stop E on Wellington Street, and will no longer serve Brunel Way.
On Sundays, our Service 6 will be timed to connect in Slough with service 703 to/from Heathrow, so most buses will start from Queensmere Stop H, before continuing to Stop E.
The full timetable is showing in our online timetable.

Source: https://www.thamesvalleybuses.com/service-12-become-service-6-sunday-4th-january

 

[MaidaVale]

Some casual observations I've had following the roll-out of the new TransMach ticket machines throughout December and into the new year...

1. As mentioned by someone in their first few days of operation, the QR code scanning is consistently less reliable and often takes longer to scan (and crucially longer to find the right position) when boarding. I imagine this might improve going forward once people have gotten used to the new position, but it still seems a bit slow to adjust.

2. Unless you're really listening, it's actually quite difficult to understand when your QR code has been successfully scanned. Unlike on a Ticketer, it doesn't show any change on the customer display after you've scanned on, simply just remaining on the welcome screen. The QR code accepted sound is also considerably quieter and more subtle than the Ticketer one, so I've personally experienced (and seen a few others experience) issues or confusion as to whether my ticket has actually successfully scanned especially when wearing airpods/earphones. I'm yet to hear what the rejected sound is like.

3. Contactless tap-on tap-off does seem slightly quicker than with the Ticketers, only by a little bit though. The new location to scan does also seem a bit more intuative than having to lay your card flat on the Ticketers.

4. Drivers seem to be a bit more lenient on just signalling people to take a seat if their QR code hasn't scanned properly within the first couple of seconds. I've been waved through a couple of times since the roll-out when the machine was taking a while to read my code.

 

[Thames99]

According a post on this Facebook group electric buses will enter service on February 6th.

 

[Fletcj10]

I don't wish to push people from one group to another! But this does sound interesting! https://tangytango.proboards.com/post/936733/thread

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2026 ==

Braking the comment down...

A) Personally moving the bus station from where it is now i don't think makes much sense, its ideal for rail passengers, i just think they need to rebuild it on the same site and maybe take some land from the so called car park behind maybe allowing coaches say to use this bus station, which i believe the current can not allow

B) Having spoke with driver's & cleaners at Slough bus depot it seams they now have run out of space and often park buses outside in Stanley Cottages, so again i can't see how anyone else would fit their

C) With the way Carousel are at the moment with Reading it might then turn into a further war or even one might try buy out the other's slough work, which then begs the question who would be the better winner

 

[Deerfold]

C) With the way Carousel are at the moment with Reading it might then turn into a further war or even one might try buy out the other's slough work, which then begs the question who would be the better winner

Either seems better that First's managed decline.

 

[Andyh82]

I don't wish to push people from one group to another! But this does sound interesting! https://tangytango.proboards.com/post/936733/thread

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2026 ==

Braking the comment down...

A) Personally moving the bus station from where it is now i don't think makes much sense, its ideal for rail passengers, i just think they need to rebuild it on the same site and maybe take some land from the so called car park behind maybe allowing coaches say to use this bus station, which i believe the current can not allow

B) Having spoke with driver's & cleaners at Slough bus depot it seams they now have run out of space and often park buses outside in Stanley Cottages, so again i can't see how anyone else would fit their

C) With the way Carousel are at the moment with Reading it might then turn into a further war or even one might try buy out the other's slough work, which then begs the question who would be the better winner

The saga has dragged on so long, anything is probably better than the current situation. I can’t believe a fire damaged bus station being the first thing people see when they leave the rail station has been acceptable so long

 

[Deerfold]

The saga has dragged on so long, anything is probably better than the current situation. I can’t believe a fire damaged bus station being the first thing people see when they leave the rail station has been acceptable so long

Its probably being sold, probably for development (but not as a bus station).

Slough bus station could be sold off after being deemed 'surplus to requirements'

The site of a landmark bus station in Slough which has stood empty since being ravaged by fire could be sold off after it was deemed surplus to…

www.sloughobserver.co.uk

A report which went before cabinet members recommended that the site be declared ‘surplus’ – paving the way for a potential sale of the site.

However, the meeting at Observatory House heard this decision would be ‘the first step’ in a ‘long process’.

Councillor Wal Chahal (Con, Langley Marish), the council’s lead member for assets and transformation, said this will allow the council to ‘properly engage with the market’ and explore different options for what the site could become in the future.

 

[LUYMun]

I detect brown envelopes being handed around...

 

[Goldfish62]

I detect brown envelopes being handed around...

Eh?

 

[markymark2000]

A) Personally moving the bus station from where it is now i don't think makes much sense, its ideal for rail passengers, i just think they need to rebuild it on the same site and maybe take some land from the so called car park behind maybe allowing coaches say to use this bus station, which i believe the current can not allow

They could have easily gone the same way at Cardiff Bus Station and Nottingham Broadmarsh and done a bus station on the ground floor then built wonderful things on higher floors such as housing, offices, shops. Whatever they feel the town needs and still benefitted from having multiple uses for the land.
That said the issue with Slough though too is any movement of buses towards the train station, tends to lead to them not serving the town as well. You end up too with the situation Swindon had with the bus station and then people connecting onto other buses having to walk a few minutes to essentially a second interchange on Fleming Way. Given most routes are through routes, either by design or through interworking, a drive on reverse off bus station is probably not the best layout there anyway.

I think you could invest in the Wellington Street stops quite a bit by having 4 high quality stops, with a saw tooth design, in each direction. Make all of Brunel Way one way towards Slough Station and then the current southbound lane there can become bus layovers (to keep Wellington Street free). That'd be sufficient for them to split up services a little bit more (less congestion on each stop) and still be a decent interchange.

B) Having spoke with driver's & cleaners at Slough bus depot it seams they now have run out of space and often park buses outside in Stanley Cottages, so again i can't see how anyone else would fit their

I don't know how they fit everything in now. 60 odd buses in that depot does not look easy, not when you want to get all of the buses back out again.