Reading Buses and Thames Valley

[nctd2306]

I notice that a number of vehicles that had semi recently been transferred to Newbury and District (the former Jet black 1 E400 MMCs) have now returned to Reading with one apparently on its way to Thames Valley. Is anyone able to shed some light on this?

 

[Lynford1976]

I notice that a number of vehicles that had semi recently been transferred to Newbury and District (the former Jet black 1 E400 MMCs) have now returned to Reading with one apparently on its way to Thames Valley. Is anyone able to shed some light on this?

Other than those vehicles becoming spare following a contract loss at Newbury, I don't know much more.

One has been rebranded for "White Knight" route 20.

 

[cactustwirly]

I notice that a number of vehicles that had semi recently been transferred to Newbury and District (the former Jet black 1 E400 MMCs) have now returned to Reading with one apparently on its way to Thames Valley. Is anyone able to shed some light on this?

They're surplus so coming back to Reading for the route 20, and extra spares

The E400s have limited time left, once the EVs arrive will just be the 26 branded ones left

 

[Flange Squeal]

It would appear Reading Buses are going to launch some competition from early November against Go-Ahead owned Carousel Buses, who won various contracted routes in the Royal Borough of Windsor & Maidenhead tendering earlier this year which saw Carousel arrive in Thames Valley territory (with some commercial competitive elements existing in some areas).

Reading Buses look set to be launching a new route 12 between Reading and Twyford via London Road, which will presumably compete with Carousel's weekday 127 and all-week 850. It is listed as "Shopper Service" though, so it will presumably launch only at limited times/days but time will tell.

12 - Reading to Twyford via London Road​

Registration numberPH0005856/234TypeNormal StoppingAuthoritiesReading Borough Council
Wokingham Borough Council

Variation history​

1. • Received19 Sep 25
   • Effective3 Nov 25
   • 
     
   • Shopper Service

Source: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PH0005856/234

The Thames Valley division have registered a new route 20 running Monday to Saturday between Maidenhead and High Wycombe via Bourne End, which sounds similar to a section of Carousel's Windsor - Maidenhead - Bourne End - High Wycombe 37.

20 - Frascati Way, Maidenhead to Hgh Wycombe Bus Station, Bridge Street, High Wycombe via Bourne End​

Registration numberPH0005994/159TypeNormal StoppingAuthoritiesRoyal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead

Variation history​

1. • Received17 Sep 25
   • Effective2 Nov 25
   • 
     
   • Monday to Saturday, Except Bank Holidays

Source: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PH0005994/159

 

[Fletcj10]

Incase anyone hasn't seen but the CEO posted on his forum about the latest changes (https://groups.google.com/g/buszone/c/YVosKy4pY8E)

Reading Buses

751 went away for repaint on 12 August, returning on 14 September in generic silver (orbits) in place of previous claret livery, and returning to service on 15 September.

445 entered service on 29 September in red Winnersh Triangle park&ride 500 livery.

449 entered service on 24 September in generic silver.

447 arrived from repaint and refurbishment by 30 September and is being prepared for service. 444, 446 and 451 are still outstanding.



789-793 are in the process of rejoining the fleet from N&D to enable the faster replacement of E400 classics and former hybrids. The official transfer date is regarded as Monday 22 September, although the physical transfers have been phased slightly.



791-793 are for White Knight 20. They are being re-vinyled on base N&D livery with an amended turquoise stripe. 792 went on 22 September, returning on 29 September.

789-790 are for use on school and college services. They will be revinyled for Reading Buses on base N&D livery once the White Knights are complete.



211 and 213 were withdrawn on 9 September, although 213 hasn’t been in service since 29 May due to the summer holidays. 212 is still in use to enable the rebranding work on 791-3, but will be withdrawn shortly. 211, 212, 213 have been advertised for sale.



The deployment of the electric vehicles is now expected to be sometime in December due to delays with SSE connecting the new charging infrastructure to the grid.





Newbury & District

650 re-entered service on 25 September in restored N&D black livery.



789-794 and 1406 have become surplus to requirements following school contract losses after Thursday 4 September. 789-93 are gradually being redeployed to Reading Buses and 794 to Thames Valley Buses as follows:



789 – still in use

790 – 22 September (used on loan to Reading on 20 September)

791 – 23 September

792 – 23 September

793 – 22 September

794 – 6 October



1406 has been advertised for sale (along with 1408 already for sale) but remains in use for the time being.





Thames Valley Buses

The new vehicles entered service as follows:

Fleet	Registration	Chassis No	Body No	Delivered	Entered Service
171	YX75 LCY	SFD9TAFRBSGYA9267	R208/1	20/08/2025	23/09/2025
690	YX75 LCZ	SFDCTAFRBSGYA9263	R209/1	20/08/2025	01/09/2025
691	YX75 LDA	SFDCTAFRBSGYA9264	R209/2	21/08/2025	02/09/2025
692	YX75 LDC	SFDCTAFRBSGYA9265	R209/3	21/08/2025	12/09/2025
693	YX75 LDD	SFDCTAFRBSGYA9266	R209/4	22/08/2025	09/09/2025
694	YX75 LDE	SFDCTAFRBSGYA9262	R209/5	22/08/2025	01/09/2025
695	YX75 LDF	SFDCTAFRBSGYA9270	R209/6	03/09/2025	18/09/2025
696	YX75 LDJ	SFDCTAFRBSGYA9271	R209/7	04/09/2025	17/09/2025

689 is still pending entry into service, so 1009 continues in short term use.



794 transferred in from N&D on 6 October to replace 1209 which has been advertised for sale, 794 went straight to re-vinyl. 1209 remains in service pending the branding on 794 being updated.



Buses have been withdrawn as follows:

126 – 16 September

129 – 2 September (last in service 12 August)

130 – 2 September

659 – 12 September

660 – 19 September

661 - imminent

662 – 17 September

663 – 15 September



126, 129, 130 have been advertised for sale. 659-63 are being prepared for return to Dawson Rentals.

192 returned to Dawson Rentals on 1 October, and 191 shortly after.

 

[Flange Squeal]

It would appear Reading Buses are going to launch some competition from early November against Go-Ahead owned Carousel Buses, who won various contracted routes in the Royal Borough of Windsor & Maidenhead tendering earlier this year which saw Carousel arrive in Thames Valley territory (with some commercial competitive elements existing in some areas).

Reading Buses look set to be launching a new route 12 between Reading and Twyford via London Road, which will presumably compete with Carousel's weekday 127 and all-week 850. It is listed as "Shopper Service" though, so it will presumably launch only at limited times/days but time will tell.


Source: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PH0005856/234

The Thames Valley division have registered a new route 20 running Monday to Saturday between Maidenhead and High Wycombe via Bourne End, which sounds similar to a section of Carousel's Windsor - Maidenhead - Bourne End - High Wycombe 37.


Source: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PH0005994/159

Further to this post, the Reading Buses 12's timetable has been uploaded to the website and a small mention on the 20 on Thames Valley's website.

The following is quoted from the Hants & Surrey Bus News Facebook page:

Further to this post, the 12 (Reading to Twyford) has appeared on the Reading Buses website's route listing and selecting 3rd November onwards gives us an idea of what provision will be. It looks to me like it will indeed follow the Carousel 127/850 between Reading and Twyford town centre, from where it will head northwards along the 850's route as far as the Carlile Lane bus stop (then presumably turn at the A4 roundabout to head back).

The route's colour on the website is the same dark orange colour as circular routes 13/14 (albeit without the 'Orange' label), which look to share the future 12's route along the London Road between Reading and the Shepherds Hill Top timing point. The 12 is (unsurprisingly) shown as starting/terminating on Friar Street like Carousel's 127/850, rather than Blagrave Street like the 13/14, though.

Weekdays look to be a daytime 'between schools' type operation, hence the 'Shopper Service' description I suppose, with Saturdays having later journeys. Departures from Reading to Twyford are shown at 0827 then half-hourly 0907-1407, plus a 1437 Reading to Shepherds Hill Top short (half-hourly right through until 1707 on Saturdays). In the other direction, departures from Twyford (Carlile Gardens) to Reading are shown as 0900 then half-hourly 0935-1435 (1735 on Saturdays).

To see where the Reading Buses will 12 slot in between Carousel's 127/850 departures, typical off-peak departure times will be...

- Reading to Twyford: xx00(127), xx07(12), xx15(850), xx37(12), xx45(850)

- Twyford (Waitrose) to Reading: xx12(12), xx15(850), xx30(127), xx42(12), xx45(850)

- Twyford (Carlile Gardens/Corner): xx05(12), xx08(850), xx35(12), xx38(850)

The Thames Valley website doesn't show the 20 (Maidenhead to High Wycombe) yet, however the route 7 page does show a message that from 3rd November the 7 will no longer extend to St Marks Hospital, but that the link will be maintained by one bus per hour changing to route 20. The 7 is a local route in Maidenhead running half-hourly, with one journey per hour already continuing as route 16 to Windsor, so a similar arrangement looks set to see the remaining journeys continue as route 20 to High Wycombe.

The new route 12's peak vehicle requirement would look to be two vehicles.

The current 7/16 interworked operation looks to be workable using three vehicles on paper - two doing 7+16 and one solely on the 7. Assuming similar running times to the Carousel 37, the future 7+20 interworking could potentially be done using the existing solely 7 vehicle plus two extras (albeit with tightish layovers). So, a combined 7/16/20 operation of potentially five vehicles, meaning an increase of two from the current three used for the 7+16. These are purely me playing around and not based on any actual knowledge, mind!

12 timetable: https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/services/RBUS/12?date=2025-11-03&direction=outbound

Source: https://www.facebook.com/hsbusnews

 

[cactustwirly]

Further to this post, the Reading Buses 12's timetable has been uploaded to the website and a small mention on the 20 on Thames Valley's website.

The following is quoted from the Hants & Surrey Bus News Facebook page:


Source: https://www.facebook.com/hsbusnews

So pointless I don't get it. I thought Reading council was all about getting cars off the roads.

If they drive Carousel off the roads, the 12 isn't viable on its own so will reduce the bus services from the eastern peripheries.
Carousel took a big risk to increase the 850 service, Reading buses were never bothered in the slightest for the 25 years Arriva operated the 850

Wish they spent as much effort improving the buses actually in Reading, such as the Sky Blue 15 which is completely useless and unreliable, or reducing the fares to make bus travel more competitive

 

[Jimini]

If they drive Carousel off the roads, the 12 isn't viable on its own so will reduce the bus services from the eastern peripheries.
Carousel took a big risk to increase the 850 service, Reading buses were never bothered in the slightest for the 25 years Arriva operated the 850

This seems a very valid point: when Arriva(?) pulled the 800 / 850 routes, Carousel did a great job of replacing the Reading <> High Wycombe route. Reading Buses have enjoyed success through the Aqua route to Henley, but not to the detriment of the original through service.

I remember using this service back in 2003 when it was the 328 / 329 service

 

[Flange Squeal]

Reading buses were never bothered in the slightest for the 25 years Arriva operated the 850

Maybe part of it is a bit of retaliation for Carousel starting some commercial competition with Reading Buses' Thames Valley Buses subsidiary on the Maidenhead to Cox Green and Maidenhead to Stroud Farm Estate routes, following their win of Royal Borough of Windsor & Maidenhead Council routes in areas formerly primarily under Thames Valley's control?

That said, I'm really not sure I can see the Reading Buses 12 or Thames Valley 20 likely to actually kill off the Carousel 127/850 or 37 as they seem too well established. Maybe more just abstract some revenue, perhaps in the hope Carousel pull their 7A and 52 and Reading Buses then retreat.

Carousel set-up their commercial weekday 127 between Reading - Twyford - Maidenhead, which Thames Valley only run under contract on Saturdays but do have a Mon-Sat 128 between Reading and Twyford (then on to Wokingham). Maybe they have a fear Carousel may win these when Wokingham Borough Council next retender, so are trying to establish themselves on the Reading to Twyford corridor in advance?

 

[johnsy112]

Unsure if I am confused here but the hours that Reading buses 12 is running looks very limited? Not sure what the point is there unless they have secured some form of council funding which again, struggle to understand how. As for Thames Valley 20, they never competed with the Wycombe to Maidenhead route when Arriva operated it. I even emailed them a few years ago suggesting an express service between the two towns (First Berkshire gave it a very brief attempt many years ago) and they had no interest whatsoever.

 

[Bwsbro]

More competition against Carousel have been announced with the 702 London Line introducing new hourly short journeys between Windsor and Slough on weekdays, giving a combined service every 15 minutes alongside the 703.

New 702 Timetable

More buses for the London Line 702​

From Monday 3 November, they’ll be even more buses running between Windsor and Slough! We’re increasing the number of buses which run during Monday to Friday daytime on the London Line 702 between Slough and Windsor.

Every 15 minutes throughout the day between Slough and Windsor​

The extra buses on the London Line 702 will combine with flightline 703 to give you a fifteen minute frequency during the day* between Windsor, Knights Place and Slough, Queensmere.
This gives you nearly double the number of buses to choose from during the day time.
*frequency based on 4 buses per hour. Buses may not be spaced 15 minutes apart.

additional London Line 701 services linking Reading, Bracknell and London​

As well as the increased frequency between Slough and Windsor, we’re also connecting Reading with London through additional journeys!
On weekday afternoons, an additional London Line 701 service will leave Reading at 2.05pm, giving leisure travellers more options to get to London.
There will also be a morning service from London Victoria, departing at 11.00am which runs through to Bracknell and Reading – meaning a stay over in London doesn’t have to mean a morning rush to get the train! https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/more-buses-london-line-702

 

[Rebel Viking]

Is that 9 buses per hour now running Windsor to Slough?

London Line/Flight Line
702 x2
703 x2

Thames Valley
2 x1 (Indirect via Dedworth)

Carousel
103 x2

First
8 x2

 

[markymark2000]

More competition against Carousel have been announced with the 702 London Line introducing new hourly short journeys between Windsor and Slough on weekdays, giving a combined service every 15 minutes alongside the 703.

New 702 Timetable

I can't understand why Reading choose such a needlessly confusing way of doing timetables. The 702 has some trips which continue as a 701 to/from Reading. These extensions vary from running none stop Reading to Slough, none stop Reading to Windsor, and others running via Bracknell and Legoland. The 702 is also known as 'The London Line' and yet now has silly little Windsor to Slough trips. Surely these little shorts should be on the 703 instead which is more known for having lots of variations? An operator as well regarded as Reading, and the 702 timetable keeps coming out looking more and more of a mess with more and more variations.

 

[richard13]

I can't understand why Reading choose such a needlessly confusing way of doing timetables. The 702 has some trips which continue as a 701 to/from Reading. These extensions vary from running none stop Reading to Slough, none stop Reading to Windsor, and others running via Bracknell and Legoland. The 702 is also known as 'The London Line' and yet now has silly little Windsor to Slough trips. Surely these little shorts should be on the 703 instead which is more known for having lots of variations? An operator as well regarded as Reading, and the 702 timetable keeps coming out looking more and more of a mess with more and more variations.

It is an interesting split.
Thames Valley makes no mention of the 701/702 only 703/704 - a company split.
The 701 is a positioning connection from Reading to a starting point of the 702.
The 16:01 and 17:01 arrivals in Victoria currently start at Slough. (empty from Reading?)
One service will in future start at Reading as the 08:17 to then provide the Windsor - Slough shuttle until 14:21 when it goes to London as now.
The other will start in Reading and run via Bracknell and then as now. They both return to Reading via Bracknell as currently.

So the shuttles are using a bus from the commuter extra service all day.

 

[markymark2000]

It is an interesting split.
Thames Valley makes no mention of the 701/702 only 703/704 - a company split.
The 701 is a positioning connection from Reading to a starting point of the 702.
The 16:01 and 17:01 arrivals in Victoria currently start at Slough. (empty from Reading?)
One service will in future start at Reading as the 08:17 to then provide the Windsor - Slough shuttle until 14:21 when it goes to London as now.
The other will start in Reading and run via Bracknell and then as now. They both return to Reading via Bracknell as currently.

So the shuttles are using a bus from the commuter extra service all day.

The positioning runs are really good and I support them, I also support the extra little shuttles (even though I think in reality they may be a bit useless, but it's good to see the bus network expanding). I just think the timetable should be made simpler by moving the shuttles onto the 703 timetable (nothing stops the bus interworking back onto the 702 in the evening), and have any Reading - Slough - London trips numbered as 701 throughout, and have the 702 numbered throughout on the Reading- Legoland - London trips. Changing numbers mid trip, without a really good reason, is just daft and adds needless confusion.

 

[Fletcj10]

Route 12 seams to be using one of if not 2 of the ex Newbury & District MMCs..... as a user of Reading i personally can't see why the route 12 was needed, and even so using a DD on that route again seams mad, can't see that it will ever be full, but i guess their trying it.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Route 12 seams to be using one of if not 2 of the ex Newbury & District MMCs..... as a user of Reading i personally can't see why the route 12 was needed, and even so using a DD on that route again seams mad, can't see that it will ever be full, but i guess their trying it.


View attachment 190989

Presumably the peak work the bus does will justify the capacity.

 

[Thames99]

Is that route 12 graphic from RB though? I think it is someone having fun mocking up images of buses in different liveries. I can't see it needing anything other than generic single deckers apart from the afternoon bus that goes on to run a school service.

 

[duncombec]

Is that route 12 graphic from RB though? I think it is someone having fun mocking up images of buses in different liveries. I can't see it needing anything other than generic single deckers apart from the afternoon bus that goes on to run a school service.

Its on the front page of the Reading Buses website.....

 

[Fletcj10]

Is that route 12 graphic from RB though? I think it is someone having fun mocking up images of buses in different liveries. I can't see it needing anything other than generic single deckers apart from the afternoon bus that goes on to run a school service.

Without looking to be rude (i am not), yeah its from the website, personally they should of used as you say generics or if anything 131-3 which are orange



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2025 ==

With route 12 that now means their is 3 livery's based on the Newbury & District's livery (white knights, route 12, Thames valley)

 

[Thames99]

Yes, sorry I couldn't believe such a large bus would really be devoted to this service! We'll see what is used in practice in a week's time.

 

[cactustwirly]

Yes, sorry I couldn't believe such a large bus would really be devoted to this service! We'll see what is used in practice in a week's time.

You'd thought it would be one of the ex Stagecoach E300s

 

[Flange Squeal]

Yes, sorry I couldn't believe such a large bus would really be devoted to this service! We'll see what is used in practice in a week's time.

I doubt a decker will be “devoted” solely to the 12. Given the route operates roughly 0830/0900 to 1430 on weekdays, it would seem likely that it will be operated by a double deck vehicle likely otherwise sat around doing nothing between school runs, and/or related to the Aqua 28 changes from the same date to allow a decker to work some morning/late afternoon trips. If there is actually one carrying the branding then it would essentially exacting as a billboard for the new route which it operates between school/peak journeys it is required for outside of the 12’s operating hours.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

Route 20 information has now been published. The following from the Hants & Surrey Bus News page on Facebook.

THAMES VALLEY 20 INFO RELEASED

I’ve previously mentioned two future routes registered by Reading Buses and their Thames Valley subsidiary which seemingly set to compete with Go-Ahead owned Carousel Buses, following the latter’s arrival into the Maidenhead and Windsor areas after Arriva pulled out of the 800/850, and more recently the winning of former Thames Valley council tenders alongside two commercial Carousel routes set up along remaining Thames Valley routes.

Last week we got more information about Reading Buses’ Mon-Sat 12 (from 3rd November) which will compete with Carousel’s 127/850 between Reading and Twyford, and a hint that the other new route - Thames Valley 20 - will take over the St Marks Hospital extensions of the 7.

We already knew the 20 would run between Maidenhead and High Wycombe, a corridor currently served by Carousel route 37, but not the exact routing. Thames Valley have today published more information about the 20, which shows the centre of the route is indeed like the 37 through Furze Platt, Cookham and Bourne End, but each end will vary.

At the southern end the 20 will run between Maidenhead and Furze Platt via St Marks Hospital (rather than Cookham Road like the 37), and at the northern end the 20 will run between Bourne End and High Wycombe via Flackwell Heath, Daws Hill and Marlow Hill Schools like Carousel’s local 36 (rather than Wooburn Green and Loudwater like the 37).

It’s therefore not a complete like-for-like copy, but does provide new journey opportunities for the hospital, plus direct links south of Bourne End for Marlow Hill Schools.

The 20 will run generally hourly Mon-Sat, with departures from Maidenhead (Frascati Way) 0610-1925 weekdays and 0725-1840 Saturdays, and in the other direction from High Wycombe (Bus Station) 0722-2042 weekdays and 0842-1945 Saturdays. There are also 0646/0751 Bourne End to Maidenhead shorts (weekdays/Saturdays).

Departures from Maidenhead are typically xx25 (xx30 on Carousel 37), and from High Wycombe xx42. The latter compares on weekdays with xx20/50 on the 37 to Windsor/Bourne End & xx05/35 on the 36 to Bourne End, and xx20 (37) & xx50 (36) on Saturdays.

Typical journey time is 1h01 towards High Wycombe (vs 1hr on 37) and 54mins towards Maidenhead (vs 59mins on 37). The 20 will use Stand 11 at High Wycombe bus station, the same one as the Carousel 37 (and next to the Carousel 36 on stand 10).

The Thames Valley website text says it commences 3rd November (next Monday), which tallies with the timing changes on the 7/16 with the 7 no longer running to the hospital, but the timetable leaflet they link to has 1st November (this coming Saturday) on the cover. One assumes that’s an error and Monday 3rd November is the correct date, like the 12.

The simplyMaidenhead ticket zone is being extended to Bourne End, and a new Wycombe zone will cover Bourne End to High Wycombe.

New service 20 to connect Maidenhead to High Wycombe

On 3 November, our service 20 will commence, linking Maidenhead to Wycombe via St Mark's Hospital, Cookham, Bourne End and Flackwell Heath

www.thamesvalleybuses.com

Source: https://www.facebook.com/share/1ZQRsRrxPe/?mibextid=wwXIfr

 

[LUYMun]

I’ve spotted that Thames Valley buses have got some new ticket machines replacing the Ticketer ones. Transmach TM700 by the looks of it, as seen on bus 794 on the 194 route. The driver says it’s become much easier to process card payments, and I don’t disagree.

 

[Goldfish62]

I’ve spotted that Thames Valley buses have got some new ticket machines replacing the Ticketer ones. Transmach TM700 by the looks of it, as seen on bus 794 on the 194 route. The driver says it’s become much easier to process card payments, and I don’t disagree.

Yes, it's Transmach's single largest order to date. Thames Valley is first, followed by Reading and Newbury in December.

The TM700 does look remarkably similar to the equivalent Ticketer product at first glance, whereas previous Transmach ETMs were very different.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes, it's Transmach's single largest order to date. Thames Valley is first, followed by Reading and Newbury in December.

The TM700 does look remarkably similar to the equivalent Ticketer product at first glance, whereas previous Transmach ETMs were very different.

I think FK could do with some of these given the amount of Ticketer machines last week deciding to eat their own tickets

Poor drivers were getting fed up of having to unjam them!

 

[Goldfish62]

I think FK could do with some of these given the amount of Ticketer machines last week deciding to eat their own tickets

Poor drivers were getting fed up of having to unjam them!

First Bus is currently replacing all its ETMs with the latest model from Ticketer.

 

[Edvid]

In tandem with the TM700 ETM rollout TOTO journeys are now possible on Thames Valley routes, which by extension means the Reading Transport network - with a few exceptions* - can be treated as such.

[* Flightline 730/731, football services and N&D school services]

 

[Goldfish62]

In tandem with the TM700 ETM rollout TOTO journeys are now possible on Thames Valley routes, which by extension means the Reading Transport network - with a few exceptions* - can be treated as such.

[* Flightline 730/731, football services and N&D school services]

It's been available on Flightline 703 for well over a year now and this is a Thames Valley route despite what the marketing might say. I wonder why it hasn't been available on other TV services.

 

[markymark2000]

In tandem with the TM700 ETM rollout TOTO journeys are now possible on Thames Valley routes, which by extension means the Reading Transport network - with a few exceptions* - can be treated as such.

[* Flightline 730/731, football services and N&D school services]

Sadly yet another operator who is hiding TOTO transactions behind Passengers (their website developer) data mining accounts system.

Why can't bus operators just let passengers see basic details like their TOTO transactions without signing in and that nonsense? We can slate Arriva to no end on this forum, but at least they don't (currently) engage in such rubbish and just provide a link to Littlepay to check and dispute any transactions.