Reading Buses and Thames Valley

[MaidaVale]

The 28 seems to be allocated with deckers relatively often over the last couple of weeks, not sure if it’s a side-product of increased ridership or just an influx of spare deckers. Can’t be a bad thing though.

Also recently spotted a depiction of the berry livery E400City’s on the cover of a the most recent paper timetables, which is clearly a sign of what’s to come for the ones earmarked for single-door conversion. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[nctd2306]

The 28 seems to be allocated with deckers relatively often over the last couple of weeks, not sure if it’s a side-product of increased ridership or just an influx of spare deckers. Can’t be a bad thing though.

It's due to some services being heavily loaded with Henley College students, where single deckers can't cope with the loads.
The diagram starting with the 7.50 Reading to Henley is the one now allocated as a double decker.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

The 28 seems to be allocated with deckers relatively often over the last couple of weeks, not sure if it’s a side-product of increased ridership or just an influx of spare deckers. Can’t be a bad thing though.

Also recently spotted a depiction of the berry livery E400City’s on the cover of a the most recent paper timetables, which is clearly a sign of what’s to come for the ones earmarked for single-door conversion. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Bearing in mind it's fairly clear that the "classic" model E400s are for the chop over the next year, with 32 E400EVs coming. I'd expect the Scanias from the 17 to be moving to the Berry routes and the Sky Blue 15/16 (the yellow 26 examples being replaced by the last eight of the E400EVs, of course).

 

[cactustwirly]

Bearing in mind it's fairly clear that the "classic" model E400s are for the chop over the next year, with 32 E400EVs coming. I'd expect the Scanias from the 17 to be moving to the Berry routes and the Sky Blue 15/16 (the yellow 26 examples being replaced by the last eight of the E400EVs, of course).

That is the plan, with the spare grey E400s being replaced by the MMCs off the 21

 

[MaidaVale]

Bearing in mind it's fairly clear that the "classic" model E400s are for the chop over the next year, with 32 E400EVs coming. I'd expect the Scanias from the 17 to be moving to the Berry routes and the Sky Blue 15/16 (the yellow 26 examples being replaced by the last eight of the E400EVs, of course).

Yes, the concrete plan (as of spring anyway) was that they were all due to be converted to single door for use on the Berry and Skyblue routes, although later it was revised that only the Berry examples would be single door converted, with the Skyblue ones remaining as dual door. This may have changed since though, especially with the delays on the EVs.

 

[cactustwirly]

Whilst Reading buses are fighting Carousel on one end, they are making deep cuts to services in the west of Reading, I knew this would happen

Sky Blue 15 is reduced to hourly, it's currently crap but at least semi useable, it goes to completely useless after January. The evening journeys are already hourly and often very unreliable

The councillors complain about too many cars, but can't be bothered to actually provide decent bus services through their council owned bus company

changes to sky blue 15

We’re also making changes to our sky blue 15 route between Tilehurst and Calcot.

Between Central Reading, Dee Park, and Tilehurst, buses will continue to run up to every 20 minutes on Monday to Saturdays with minor changes to the timetable, and an improved late evening service to Dee Park.

Only one bus each hour will now continue from Tilehurst to Calcot Sainsburys to better reflect demand, but this will include an extension to Arlington Business Park and Theale.

Sky blue buses that only run as far as Tilehurst will be renumbered to sky blue 15a, and after St Michael's Road in Tilehurst, will run back to Reading via School Road and Mayfair, restoring a service to this area.

 

[Man of Kent]

The councillors complain about too many cars, but can't be bothered to actually provide decent bus services through their council owned bus company

The frequency reduction is largely in the West Berkshire Council area, not Reading.

 

[cactustwirly]

The frequency reduction is largely in the West Berkshire Council area, not Reading.

Yes but linking West Berkshire to the RBC side of Tilehurst, if you cut the buses you increase the cars in that part

 

[canary fan]

Yes but linking West Berkshire to the RBC side of Tilehurst, if you cut the buses you increase the cars in that part

Yes but ridership on that part of the route is very low. Also extending the route to Theale should help reduce car use.

 

[Fletcj10]

Yes but ridership on that part of the route is very low. Also extending the route to Theale should help reduce car use.

I agree i travel many times to Calcot, its my local the skyblue! and the ridership numbers are terrible, so this doesn't surprise me, but the extending to Theale if anything like last time wasn't to get people onto the bus, but was to keep the bus going to save it sitting at Calcot for sometime, if anything that western area is crying for a buzz time service perhaps via the A4 & the estate that was cut from skyblue before, i mean stagecoach now have at least 15/20 gas e300s maybe reading should put a few to use their and extent the buzz brand to more areas that need more buses but the current colours can't match

 

[Beemax]

Aren't the 'Buzz' routes, such as the 18, subsidised by Reading's BSIP? The cynic in me says that this is part of Reading BC's ploy to take over the outer Tilehurst/Calcot areas from West Berkshire in the upcoming local authority boundary changes. Reading is implying to the people in these areas 'yes we know you've got c**p bus services but if you voted to become part of Reading we might subsidise bus services in this area, in a way that West Berkshire won't '

 

[cactustwirly]

Aren't the 'Buzz' routes, such as the 18, subsidised by Reading's BSIP? The cynic in me says that this is part of Reading BC's ploy to take over the outer Tilehurst/Calcot areas from West Berkshire in the upcoming local authority boundary changes. Reading is implying to the people in these areas 'yes we know you've got c**p bus services but if you voted to become part of Reading we might subsidise bus services in this area, in a way that West Berkshire won't '

Well the justification for taking over the areas is people use Reading Buses aka a Reading "Council Service", I don't see how removing buses in this area helps

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Aren't the 'Buzz' routes, such as the 18, subsidised by Reading's BSIP? The cynic in me says that this is part of Reading BC's ploy to take over the outer Tilehurst/Calcot areas from West Berkshire in the upcoming local authority boundary changes. Reading is implying to the people in these areas 'yes we know you've got c**p bus services but if you voted to become part of Reading we might subsidise bus services in this area, in a way that West Berkshire won't '

Well the justification for taking over the areas is people use Reading Buses aka a Reading "Council Service", I don't see how removing buses in this area helps

Might it just be that, as @canary fan and @Fletcj10 commented, that there simply isn't the patronage to sustain the current frequency?

 

[cactustwirly]

Might it just be that, as @canary fan and @Fletcj10 commented, that there simply isn't the patronage to sustain the current frequency?

But we're talking about a council owned bus company who's owners call it a "public service" and complain when people dare to use the car in Reading. Just a bit hypocritical, especially when they're prepared to send empty buses on the 12 to an area with good rail and bus services.

If it was First, Stagecoach whoever I wouldn't have a problem, as it's a purely commercial service

 

[Goldfish62]

But we're talking about a council owned bus company who's owners call it a "public service" and complain when people dare to use the car in Reading. Just a bit hypocritical, especially when they're prepared to send empty buses on the 12 to an area with good rail and bus services.

If it was First, Stagecoach whoever I wouldn't have a problem, as it's a purely commercial service

RB might be Council-owned but under current legislation it's required to act as commercially as any other operator.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But we're talking about a council owned bus company who's owners call it a "public service" and complain when people dare to use the car in Reading. Just a bit hypocritical, especially when they're prepared to send empty buses on the 12 to an area with good rail and bus services.

If it was First, Stagecoach whoever I wouldn't have a problem, as it's a purely commercial service

They are still a commercial business with the same challenge of making sure that cost doesn't exceed revenue, and the need to fund fleet replacement etc. How do you know it isn't losing a load of money, and even by doing this, it might be barely washing its face?

As for the 12, it isn't a comparable situation.

 

[cactustwirly]

They are still a commercial business with the same challenge of making sure that cost doesn't exceed revenue, and the need to fund fleet replacement etc. How do you know it isn't losing a load of money, and even by doing this, it might be barely washing its face?

As for the 12, it isn't a comparable situation.

So why are Reading Borough Council going around telling everyone it is a public service just like a library etc

 

[buslad1988]

So why are Reading Borough Council going around telling everyone it is a public service just like a library etc

Because that’s what councils/councillors do… and it’s purely for votes. The general public don’t understand the in’s and out’s so just believe it all. Happens the same in Ipswich - meanwhile the big operators are made out to be the greedy bad boys. It’s been the same for decades.

 

[markymark2000]

RB might be Council-owned but under current legislation it's required to act as commercially as any other operator.

Surely they can act commercially without wasting resources on petty, needless competition. Nottingham, Ipswich, Newport and Cardiff don't engage in such needless competitive behaviour.

If they put the 12 on to try and replace the 129 (to improve links to Reading and saving the councils money on the tendered buses) it would make sense and I think we could all sit back and say they are trying something new and improving links (like they did on Thames Valley 20), but instead they have just gone for the full on competitive for the sake of being competitive.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So why are Reading Borough Council going around telling everyone it is a public service just like a library etc

Can you post a link to that quote so we can see it in context?

Surely they can act commercially without wasting resources on petty, needless competition. Nottingham, Ipswich, Newport and Cardiff don't engage in such needless competitive behaviour.

Ahem.... That would be Cardiff Bus who were found to have abused their dominant position when competing... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4cbed915d7ae5000178/cardiffbus.pdf

If they put the 12 on to try and replace the 129 (to improve links to Reading and saving the councils money on the tendered buses) it would make sense and I think we could all sit back and say they are trying something new and improving links (like they did on Thames Valley 20), but instead they have just gone for the full on competitive for the sake of being competitive.

It is a bit of sabre-rattling as Carousel are getting a bit bold, and doing so with a off peak spoiler.

Because that’s what councils/councillors do… and it’s purely for votes. The general public don’t understand the in’s and out’s so just believe it all. Happens the same in Ipswich - meanwhile the big operators are made out to be the greedy bad boys. It’s been the same for decades.

Exactly.

 

[Mark L]

So why are Reading Borough Council going around telling everyone it is a public service just like a library etc

I’m not sure that the council does say that. What it does do is emphasise that as a council owned operator profits are invested in the business rather than being paid to shareholders as a dividend, that its goal is service provision rather than maximising profit (note though that it doesn’t say the business doesn’t need to make a profit) and that there are benefits from local ownership. The “social dividend” of council ownership undoubtedly means that RB provides marginal services that a privately owned operator wouldn’t. It has also proved receptive to howls of anguish when service cuts have been proposed in the past (for example in Caversham) but has been clear that it can’t simply cart so much fresh air around.

 

[cactustwirly]

I’m not sure that the council does say that. What it does do is emphasise that as a council owned operator profits are invested in the business rather than being paid to shareholders as a dividend, that its goal is service provision rather than maximising profit (note though that it doesn’t say the business doesn’t need to make a profit) and that there are benefits from local ownership. The “social dividend” of council ownership undoubtedly means that RB provides marginal services that a privately owned operator wouldn’t. It has also proved receptive to howls of anguish when service cuts have been proposed in the past (for example in Caversham) but has been clear that it can’t simply cart so much fresh air around.

That was the terminology used in the recent boundary extension consultation.

Basically there was a question about what public services you used, and Reading Buses was listed alongside libraries and council owned leisure centres

 

[markymark2000]

Ahem.... That would be Cardiff Bus who were found to have abused their dominant position when competing... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4cbed915d7ae5000178/cardiffbus.pdf

A while ago, when the industry was very different.

 

[Goldfish62]

Surely they can act commercially without wasting resources on petty, needless competition. Nottingham, Ipswich, Newport and Cardiff don't engage in such needless competitive behaviour.

If they put the 12 on to try and replace the 129 (to improve links to Reading and saving the councils money on the tendered buses) it would make sense and I think we could all sit back and say they are trying something new and improving links (like they did on Thames Valley 20), but instead they have just gone for the full on competitive for the sake of being competitive.

They're doing that because they're a commercial operation just like their competitor Carousel. Why shouldn't they compete against the interloper?

 

[cactustwirly]

Can you post a link to that quote so we can see it in context?


Ahem.... That would be Cardiff Bus who were found to have abused their dominant position when competing... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4cbed915d7ae5000178/cardiffbus.pdf


It is a bit of sabre-rattling as Carousel are getting a bit bold, and doing so with a off peak spoiler.


Exactly.

I can't find the exact wording as it was part of a now closed consultation on council boundaries. The question specifically named Reading Buses as a council service.

They compare the bus to other services like libraries below, it wouldn't be mentioned if the buses were run by Stagecoach or Go-Ahead

Results of the independent survey show:

• Residents of the three wards use Reading’s culture and leisure facilities as much as Reading residents, and in some cases even more
• 34 – 37% of these residents used Reading’s leisure centres. Around 10% of all visits to Reading leisure centres come from West Berkshire residents, with the proportion rising to 30% for Meadway Sports Centre
• Use of Reading’s Tilehurst Library was also high, reflecting it is the nearest library to these wards and that no local library provision is offered from West Berkshire for these residents
• Two thirds of these residents have used Reading Buses over the last year and more than half have made use of Reading car parks

 

[Goldfish62]

So why are Reading Borough Council going around telling everyone it is a public service just like a library etc

Any council worth anything would promote the bus services in its area as a public service. Fortunately Reading BC is very pro-bus.

Unless of course you don't believe that bus services are a public service.

 

[cactustwirly]

Any council worth anything would promote the bus services in its area as a public service. Fortunately Reading BC is very pro-bus.

Unless of course you don't believe that bus services are a public service.

I have noticed, the council are using it to score political points rather than focus on the needs of their residents.
One of the many reasons why I do not like the leadership of the council

 

[Mark L]

I can't find the exact wording as it was part of a now closed consultation on council boundaries. The question specifically named Reading Buses as a council service.

They compare the bus to other services like libraries below, it wouldn't be mentioned if the buses were run by Stagecoach or Go-Ahead

I think the reference to Reading and buses was more in the context of the area's economic links to Reading rather than the use of buses operated by Reading Buses (and even if not Reading Buses runs all the servcies in the affected areas so why would the council mention any other operator?). The report to the council ( https://democracy.reading.gov.uk/do...Committee Oxfordshire LGR Implications v6.pdf ) said:

"Residents in areas such as Calcot, Tilehurst, Theale, Pangbourne, and Purley on Thames have a strong connection to Reading. Transport routes and employment centres are based in Reading, with over 42,000 commuters travelling into Reading from outside the Borough each day. Retail and shopping facilities are centred on Reading – the only ‘major town/sub-regional centre’ in Berkshire, according to the ONS".

The consultion results are, apparently, still being analysed but should appear here at some stage - https://reading.govocal.com/en-GB/projects/your-council-your-say . In the meantime West Berkshire Council seems to be presenting Reading's position as being akin to that of the Kemlin and the Dombas and a (non-binding) refeneredum in Theale secured a 95% vote in favour of maintaining the status quo.

 

[sturfc]

They're doing that because they're a commercial operation just like their competitor Carousel. Why shouldn't they compete against the interloper?

Not sure how Carousel are a true interloper here as that would imply they moved in to just compete with Reading Buses, the services into Reading the 850 were an improved version of the old Arriva service they took on and they came off the 800 section via Caversham avoiding competition with Reading Buses. Reading Buses at the time of Arriva departing could of run the Reading to Twyford section or through to Henley but did not. The Maidenhead to Reading service restored a link Monday to Friday, not operated for years, leaving the Saturday operation to Thames Valley again a service Thames Valley could of already been supplying during the week if they desired.
The Maidenhead routes were introduced as a result of contract wins from the Council, via a Public Tender process. These could of just as easily been won by First or White Bus if they had wanted to or put in the best bid, in the same way Thames Valley took the Windsor Park route off of White Bus.

Now we have the Reading Buses 12 and Thames Valley 20, yes the 20 gives a variation in offering to the Carousel 37 and 36 services, but question if either are really needed. Cant comment on how well used either service is however, as not seen enough of them.

 

[Flange Squeal]

The Maidenhead routes were introduced as a result of contract wins from the Council, via a Public Tender process. These could of just as easily been won by First or White Bus if they had wanted to or put in the best bid, in the same way Thames Valley took the Windsor Park route off of White Bus.

Not all of Carousel’s Maidenhead routes were tender wins. The 7A is a competitive commercial venture by Carousel against Thames Valley’s pre-existing 7. One assumes Carousel perhaps thought as Thames Valley lost so much of their Maidenhead network, maybe they could be pushed off their remaining town service which they continued with as its commercial?

The Carousel 52 is another commercial venture that competes with a pre-existing Thames Valley contracted route, in this case the 53 (albeit only over a small section between Maidenhead and Holyport).