Greater Manchester Fares Simplification

[Djgr]

The boundary shouldn't matter for transport purposes and from the car travel point of view they essentially don't. A drive from Wilmslow to somewhere in Greater Manchester is just as easy now as it would be if Wilmslow happened to be inside the boundary. So if the boundary doesn't matter for car travel then it shouldn't matter for public transport either.

It matters because those on one side of the boundary contribute financially more than those on the other side

 

[johncrossley]

It matters because those on one side of the boundary contribute financially more than those on the other side

But how relevant is financial contribution when car travel is concerned?

 

[sheff1]

It's time to throw away he current fares and start again , nothing works,TVMs are too complex to use web sites struggle to display all the fares even Travel Centre TIS struggle on some flows due tp the number of fares available.

Go back to the pre-1968 pricing structure

 

[TUC]

So you're happy to pull the ladder up and watch visitors get stung for boarding the late-running xx:33 with a ticket for the xx:37 to Manchester Airport? Just as long as you get a few pence off on a short journey...

It's not very hard to know you have a ticket for the xx:33 and to know whether or not the announcement/screen says that the next train is the late running xx:33.

 

[Tester]

It's not very hard to know you have a ticket for the xx:33 and to know whether or not the announcement/screen says that the next train is the late running xx:33.

And you can feel very smug when you have done that.

 

[Djgr]

But how relevant is financial contribution when car travel is concerned?

Well then you need to change the funding structure towards public transport so that it doesn"t depend on what you call arbitrary boundaries.

What would be unfair would be those people who have opted out of belonging to the Greater Manchester area being subsidised by those who haven't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was basically saying that this is an anomaly. There's no logical reason why Wilmslow is excluded by Glossop isn't, because both lie outside the Greater Manchester boundary.

Glossop is a bit like the outer Merseyrail stations and has long had TfGM/GMPTE ticketing despite not being in Greater Manchester proper. Wilmslow is not.

 

[johncrossley]

Glossop is a bit like the outer Merseyrail stations and has long had TfGM/GMPTE ticketing despite not being in Greater Manchester proper. Wilmslow is not.

But the bus boundary *does* include Wilmslow so the same argument can be made to some extent. Obviously it is pretty silly for the bus and train boundaries to be different. Of course, we're used to odd quirks like this in British public transport but you'd be surprised to see this in countries with more integrated transport.

 

[Starmill]

Glossop is a bit like the outer Merseyrail stations and has long had TfGM/GMPTE ticketing despite not being in Greater Manchester proper. Wilmslow is not.

The fact that you don't like that Wilmslow is included doesn't stop it from being included you know.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2025 ==

But the bus boundary *does* include Wilmslow so the same argument can be made to some extent. Obviously it is pretty silly for the bus and train boundaries to be different. Of course, we're used to odd quirks like this in British public transport but you'd be surprised to see this in countries with more integrated transport.

The bus boundary is also quite different for child tickets too. Nobody in their right mind would endorse the current setup.

 

[Haywain]

Go back to the pre-1968 pricing structure

You may be surprised to know that most of us are far to young to know what that would mean.

 

[johncrossley]

You may be surprised to know that most of us are far to young to know what that would mean.

This is one of the few occasions where even I'm too young, but I'm not too young to use a search engine!

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/sites/default/files/2018-03/resource-pack-fares.pdf

Until the mid-1960s rail fares were based simply on distance travelled and costed in old pence, d, (240d = £1). The third class rate was defined by statute in 1844 as 1d per mile, which remained until 1914. (Rates during the highly inflationary period around 1921 have not been established. At this time the pound was devalued by about 40 per cent when compared to 1914). Distances are given in public timetables, and in Bradshaw, throughout the latter’s existence (1839-1961). A corresponding first class fare varied from 2 to 1.5 times the third class rate. From 1968 fare structures became much more complex and determined by the Selective Fares Manual, which we hold and can be consulted on request.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fact that you don't like that Wilmslow is included doesn't stop it from being included you know.

I don't really care if it is or it isn't to be honest. Just explaining why Hadfield and Glossop traditionally have special treatment.

It's had some of the fare changes (though dedicated Avanti fares seem to remain) but has it been confirmed it's in as far as contactless goes?

 

[Hadders]

Everyone wants fares to be simplified but unfortunately, despite trying, the rail industry ends up making things more complex. Here's a couple of recent examples:

LNER Simpler Fares - terms like 'Off Peak' are considered too complex and so a new structure has been introduced where the way to get the cheapest fare for a particular train is often to purchase a ticket for the train before or after (which you have no intention of travelling on)

Project Oval - anyone travelling from my local station to London at the weekend will find it cheaper to purchase a ticket from two stations further away from London and start/finish short.

 

[Dr Day]

How much are the UK, GM, and other tax payers saving? Not only through reduced subsidies due to higher revenues but also lower costs of not having to police people being on the wrong TOC and managing all the fares in systems behind the scenes? And reduced health care costs at the very margins for the reduced stress of having the wrong ticket?

Although if TfW are still doing their own thing on some fares and other TOCs are having to police that it makes a bit of a mockery of the GB in GBR. Hope we don’t end up with GBR only (ie Not valid on TfW) fares in response.

 

[Djgr]

How much are the UK, GM, and other tax payers saving? Not only through reduced subsidies due to higher revenues but also lower costs of not having to police people being on the wrong TOC and managing all the fares in systems behind the scenes? And reduced health care costs at the very margins for the reduced stress of having the wrong ticket?

and presumably savings in consolidating the multiple online ticket operations (fewer people required to support website operations) and reduced requirements for offline ticket operations brought about through speedier ticket purchases?

 

[jfollows]

No simplification at all there - just ridiculous 28-29% increases in most walk-up fares for that journey - including the Anytime Day Return. Looks like they've just forgotten to increase the Duo fare, as it's generally 50% more than the equivalent CDR.

It looks like this extends to Styal as well. They'll probably try to justify it by reference to the fact they've introduced single leg pricing to those flows at the same time, but it's utterly unjustifiable.

What’s also interesting is that Wilmslow-Stockport fares are unchanged, so the vast increase seems to be accounted for by the Stockport-Manchester leg in some way. Wilmslow-Stockport anytime day return is unchanged at £7.60, which is a ticket my better half buys once a week to go to the office in Stockport (he drives one day a week also).

 

[Watershed]

What’s also interesting is that Wilmslow-Stockport fares are unchanged, so the vast increase seems to be accounted for by the Stockport-Manchester leg in some way. Wilmslow-Stockport anytime day return is unchanged at £7.60, which is a ticket my better half buys once a week to go to the office in Stockport (he drives one day a week also).

I suspect they simply haven't looked at it in great detail and have just increased the Wilmslow-Manchester price - knowing that it's a better-off area where most passengers can afford it. The fact that intermediate fares may now present a splitting opportunity isn't the kind of thing they will have thought about!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Spotted a poster about this at Stockport (at the bottom of the stairs for Platform 3 and 4), didn't have a chance to get a photo.

Found one at Wigan Wallgate (there's several here), they're probably all over the county

Greater Manchester rail fares made simple. From Sunday 7 December 2025 there are two easy options for journeys across Greater Manchester. Choose from anytime or off-peak and ride on any train.

 

[Bantamzen]

Spotted a poster about this at Stockport (at the bottom of the stairs for Platform 3 and 4), didn't have a chance to get a photo.

Found one at Wigan Wallgate (there's several here), they're probably all over the county

View attachment 192413

They are also on the Northern TVMs, even those in Cheshire.

Which brings me to a question, are these new fares going to have any impact on fares from outside Greater Manchester into the area. I travel regularly between Northwich and Altrincham (to connect onto Metrolink), and through Manchester towards Bradford, so are these likely to see any changes or is this just going to impact GM fares?

 

[jfollows]

They are also on the Northern TVMs, even those in Cheshire.

Which brings me to a question, are these new fares going to have any impact on fares from outside Greater Manchester into the area. I travel regularly between Northwich and Altrincham (to connect onto Metrolink), and through Manchester towards Bradford, so are these likely to see any changes or is this just going to impact GM fares?

Yes.
See my post above.
+28% from Wilmslow to Manchester

EDIT But Northwich-Altrincham, like Wilmslow-Stockport, is unchanged. Also Northwich-Bradford. So it depends. Just go to https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=NWI&dest=0424&period=20250907 and look.

 

[Dewedin]

Spotted a poster about this at Stockport (at the bottom of the stairs for Platform 3 and 4), didn't have a chance to get a photo.

Found one at Wigan Wallgate (there's several here), they're probably all over the county

Greater Manchester rail fares made simple. From Sunday 7 December 2025 there are two easy options for journeys across Greater Manchester. Choose from anytime or off-peak and ride on any train.

Fantastic it states right there in black and white I can choose off-peak and ride any train!

 

[sheff1]

Fantastic it states right there in black and white I can choose off-peak and ride any train!

. Indeed. Permission given in writing, nothing more needed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Ondeed. Permission given in writing, nothing more needed.

What could possibly go wrong with this? Likely find out on the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' sub-forum in early December!

 

[Starmill]

What could possibly go wrong with this? Likely find out on the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' sub-forum in early December!

It also says on the National Rail Enquiries website you can travel with any company. Presumably that counts as authorisation now even with a Transport for Wales only season ticket to use any company.

Garbage in, garbage out, as they say.

 

[Llandudno]

Fantastic it states right there in black and white I can choose off-peak and ride any train!

Take a photo of the poster and keep it on your phone, may be useful when/if challenged?

Mind you I doubt that the Carlisle security mob at Piccadilly will be too bothered…!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Garbage in, garbage out, as they say.

Indeed. Ever get the feeling that a number of folk responsible for updating websites, social media and/or other sources of publicly available information, for train operating companies and/or "the railway" in general, don't always have much of a clue?

 

[sefyllian]

Today’s “one year to go” announcement has some more details on the ticketing and contactless rollout, including:

• Simpler, fairer fares: The introduction of simpler fares on 7 December paves the way for contactless payments and integration with the Bee Network from December 2026.
• Ticket acceptance during disruption: From December 2025, passengers will benefit from ticket acceptance across bus, tram and train when there's disruption in Greater Manchester.
• Contactless payments on the first rail lines: Greater Manchester is working with government to roll out tap and go contactless payments at 17 stations on the first two lines by December 2026, so there’s no need to worry about having the right ticket - or buying individual tickets - the best rail fare will be calculated for you, with a weekly rail cap.
• New Bee Network ticket: Also from December 2026, a new pre-pay multi-modal ticket will launch, meaning you can use on any combination of buses, trams and trains across the city region. Similar to the approach taken to Bee Network buses, this will bring bus, tram and train together with a new pre-paid ticket.
• Fully integrated eight rail lines into the Bee Network: From January 2028, eight rail lines – including 64 stations - will be fully integrated with Bee Network buses and trams, with Tap and Go payments and daily and weekly fare caps. The remaining 32 stations will join the system by 2030.

Full announcement from TfGM

The full list of stations doesn’t include Wilmslow btw.

 

[Djgr]

Today’s “one year to go” announcement has some more details on the ticketing and contactless rollout, including:



Full announcement from TfGM

The full list of stations doesn’t include Wilmslow btw.

which of course is not (due to a lot of local pressure) in Greater Manchester

 

[Kite159]

So I suspect the new Bee Network multimodal Ticket will end up costing more than the current GM Rail Ranger but less than the GM Wayfarer. The big question is will it be valid on other operators within Manchester.

 

[ChilliSauce]

The DfT want passengers to pay more.

They also love having evening peak restrictions, which is a complication that historically did not exist in this area. The plan is therefore to abolish cheaper fares so that they can claim to be simplifying fares, instead of doing the sort of simplification that would actually benefit customers.

Make no mistake; any form of simplification done the DfT way is bad news.

Exactly .. This Government / DaFT can claim that regulated fares are not being increased .. so that looks good on news paper headlines . But actually sneaky changes to what are in effect non-regulated fares means that for many punters they will end up paying more ... But Hey-Ho the fares have been simplified .