Greater Manchester Fares Simplification

[dodecahedron67]

From December 7th, TOC specific tickets across GM are abolished. There will only be two ticket types available to purchase on the day, Anytime and Off Peak. AP on the day is abolished, with advance purchase tickets available 12 weeks to 1 day before travel.

Single leg pricing is introduced with singles costing half a return.

52% of journeys will be cheaper, and 85% of fare increases are 20p or less. The average fare across GM will fall by 5.6%.

This is ‘Stage One’, with contactless to follow in December 2026 apparently.

 

[JonathanH]

From December 7th, TOC specific tickets across GM are abolished. There will only be two ticket types available to purchase on the day, Anytime and Off Peak. AP on the day is abolished, with advance purchase tickets available 12 weeks to 1 day before travel.

Presumably that means the new fares for travel from Sunday 7 December will be in force for purchase from this Sunday?

 

[Kite159]

A shame they are not going one stop further to do away with advance tickets for journeys wholly within Greater Manchester. Ie Ashburys to Piccadilly or Stockport to Piccadilly.

I guess the new offpeak tickets scheme will be standardised to be something like valid between 09;30 - 15;59 & 18;30 to the end of service.

 

[Watershed]

A shame they are not going one stop further to do away with advance tickets for journeys wholly within Greater Manchester. Ie Ashburys to Piccadilly or Stockport to Piccadilly.

I agree they aren't really suited to short journeys like that, but they make a lot more sense when restricted to purchase before the day of travel.

I guess the new offpeak tickets scheme will be standardised to be something like valid between 09;30 - 15;59 & 18;30 to the end of service.

Restriction code ND (which matches those timings) is already used for all interavailable Off-Peak fares within the GMPTE area so no change needed there.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Presumably that means the new fares for travel from Sunday 7 December will be in force for purchase from this Sunday?

New fares being available four weeks in advance usually only applies to the three main pricing rounds each year (January, May and September pre-pandemic. March, June and September this year.)

 

[TUC]

A shame they are not going one stop further to do away with advance tickets for journeys wholly within Greater Manchester. Ie Ashburys to Piccadilly or Stockport to Piccadilly.

Why? Anything which makes fares cheaper for customers is a good thing, isn't it?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Why? Anything which makes fares cheaper for customers is a good thing, isn't it?

Not always. An Anytime Day Single from Stockport to Manchester (route Avanti) is £5.20. Assume that this is a fare that's going?

The any operator Anytime Day Single is £5 30 but is also valid on TfW, TPE, EMR, XC and Northern. Lots more journey options for your money. The additional 10p fare seems to be worthwhile here!

 

[TUC]

Not always. An Anytime Day Single from Stockport to Manchester (route Avanti) is £5.20. Assume that this is a fare that's going?

The any operator Anytime Day Single is £5 30 but is also valid on TfW, TPE, EMR, XC and Northern. Lots more journey options for your money. The additional 10p fare seems to be worthwhile here!

That's not an Advance fare. That's an operator-restricted Anytime fare.

A better example is Manchester Victoria to Rochdale, currently with a £4.00 Advance fare available for the 1940 tonight as compared to a £6.50 Anytime fare.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

That's not an Advance fare. That's an operator-restricted Anytime fare.

Thanks for clarifying. The OP did talk about TOC specific tickets across GM. Isn't the "route Avanti" Anytime Day Single, from Stockport to Manchester, not effectively TOC specific?

 

[NorthWestRover]

Wigan to Manchester anytime day return £12.60

Wigan to Manchester 2 x advance singles, can be as low as £7 in total.

I buy those on the day quire frequently when going to a gig. Can't buy return until gig finishes for obvious reasons.

Unless next year's contactless rollout gives an anytime cap of less than £10 (or something like that), I'll be annoyed.

 

[JonathanH]

Unless next year's contactless rollout gives an anytime cap of less than £10 (or something like that), I'll be annoyed.

Given a GM Rail Ranger is £9.00 and isn't valid before 0930, or between 1600 and 1900, I doubt there will be an anytime cap as low as £10.00.

 

[Haywain]

Thanks for clarifying. The OP did talk about TOC specific tickets across GM. Isn't the "route Avanti" Anytime Day Single, from Stockport to Manchester, not effectively TOC specific?

And post #6 was referring to a comment about Advance tickets.

 

[Kite159]

That's not an Advance fare. That's an operator-restricted Anytime fare.

A better example is Manchester Victoria to Rochdale, currently with a £4.00 Advance fare available for the 1940 tonight as compared to a £6.50 Anytime fare.

Which is the pricing under the current system

Using Manchester - Rochdale for example, current fares are £6.50 for a single, £8.10 for an off-peak day return & £9.90 for an anytime day return with all the revenue flowing into the Northern pot within the DfT machine, if under the new system singles will be half the price of a return, then a single will likely be around £4.05 for an off-peak day single & £4.45 for an anytime day single [although no doubt when the singles are halved in price it will probably add an extra 5/10p to the fares]

No need for fixed train advances for what is a sub 15-minute multiple trains an hour journey (other than the stopper), other than a measure to catch people out whom mistakenly board the wrong train at the chaotic Manchester Victoria "But Sir, that ticket is for the 19:10 service, this is the late running 19:00 service, I will need to take your details down, so Northern can threaten court action over boarding the wrong train"

After-all, you don't have advance tickets on South Eastern between Bromley South & London Victoria, no advance tickets between East Croydon & London Bridge etc.

 

[Djgr]

A shame they are not going one stop further to do away with advance tickets for journeys wholly within Greater Manchester. Ie Ashburys to Piccadilly or Stockport to Piccadilly.

I guess the new offpeak tickets scheme will be standardised to be something like valid between 09;30 - 15;59 & 18;30 to the end of service.

Are there any Advance tickets that are not TOC specific? And therefore don't they disappear?

 

[NorthWestRover]

Given a GM Rail Ranger is £9.00 and isn't valid before 0930, or between 1600 and 1900, I doubt there will be an anytime cap as low as £10.00.

Fair point. Another example here of simplification meaning a fare increase. They could cap a single contactless journey at, say, £5 within an hour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's Railcard users who won't like the loss of Advances on the day, as the minimum fares don't apply to Advance fares.

Mind you could be worse, could basically abolish Railcard discounts like Merseyrail did.

 

[Kite159]

It's Railcard users who won't like the loss of APOD, as the minimum fares don't apply to Advance fares.

Mind you could be worse, could basically abolish Railcard discounts like Merseyrail did.

Only for those holding 16-25 or 26-30 railcards for use before 10am (other than the 2-month easement for the 16-25 card).

You can still get railcard discounts on Merseyrail fares, just only on the anytime point to point fares.

 

[yorkie]

Why? Anything which makes fares cheaper for customers is a good thing, isn't it?

The DfT want passengers to pay more.

They also love having evening peak restrictions, which is a complication that historically did not exist in this area. The plan is therefore to abolish cheaper fares so that they can claim to be simplifying fares, instead of doing the sort of simplification that would actually benefit customers.

Make no mistake; any form of simplification done the DfT way is bad news.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only for those holding 16-25 or 26-30 railcards for use before 10am (other than the 2-month easement for the 16-25 card).

True, though there are quite a lot of such people using local services around Manchester.

You can still get railcard discounts on Merseyrail fares, just only on the anytime point to point fares.

Yes, true, but it does considerably reduce the effective discount off peak.

 

[Haywain]

The DfT want passengers to pay more.

And some posters here, apparently.

 

[TUC]

The DfT want passengers to pay more.

They also love having evening peak restrictions, which is a complication that historically did not exist in this area. The plan is therefore to abolish cheaper fares so that they can claim to be simplifying fares, instead of doing the sort of simplification that would actually benefit customers.

Make no mistake; any form of simplification done the DfT way is bad news.

I agree. It's others who argue for fares simplification, even knowing that many will pay more, that puzzle me.

 

[fandroid]

Wigan to Manchester anytime day return £12.60

Wigan to Manchester 2 x advance singles, can be as low as £7 in total.

I buy those on the day quire frequently when going to a gig. Can't buy return until gig finishes for obvious reasons.

Unless next year's contactless rollout gives an anytime cap of less than £10 (or something like that), I'll be annoyed.

Wouldn't the option now become:
Buy an Advance for the outward journey then an Off-Peak Single for the return?

 

[yorksrob]

It's Railcard users who won't like the loss of Advances on the day, as the minimum fares don't apply to Advance fares.

Mind you could be worse, could basically abolish Railcard discounts like Merseyrail did.

Or abolish minimum fares on railcards.

There are so many ways that fares could be simplified with a net benefit to passengers, however the Establishment doesn't want that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And some posters here, apparently.

If that meant me, I do overall support the Oval changes and this similar change (which means some will pay more but some less), but would like such changes to be revenue neutral unless any increase is due to an increase in passenger numbers.

DfT of course would like it to be revenue positive.

 

[Starmill]

If that meant me, I do overall support the Oval changes and this similar change (which means some will pay more but some less), but would like such changes to be revenue neutral unless any increase is due to an increase in passenger numbers.

The issue is that Oval wasn't successful in that regard, so it'll need several above inflation rises to pay for it.

Some of the round trip fares will be increased here against the current Off Peak Day Return and Anytime Day Return prices in order to compensate. A lot of people who currently buy the CDR/SDR will therefore see a rise, albeit one of low cash terms.

This mid-year increase will of course compound with the forthcoming above inflation increase in 2026. So however you look at it...

 

[Tetchytyke]

A shame they are not going one stop further to do away with advance tickets for journeys wholly within Greater Manchester. Ie Ashburys to Piccadilly or Stockport to Piccadilly.

I don't agree.

I use APOD (advance purchase on the day) tickets from Manchester Airport into the city centre. I start booking the ticket when my suitcase appears on the baggage carousel for a train in 20-30 minutes. By the time I've walked to the station the train is there ready to board. And it's cheaper than the current single fares.

 

[Starmill]

Unless next year's contactless rollout gives an anytime cap of less than £10 (or something like that), I'll be annoyed.

Nobody knows how much it will be. But for the biggest area we can have a good guess that it will be approximately £16.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't agree.

I use APOD (advance purchase on the day) tickets from Manchester Airport into the city centre. I start booking the ticket when my suitcase appears on the baggage carousel for a train in 20-30 minutes. By the time I've walked to the station the train is there ready to board. And it's cheaper than the current single fares.

To be fair a lot of advance on the day fares bought close to the time of travel on Northern are priced at roughly half the relevant return. Thus if we disregard Railcards for the moment, if the walk up fares move to single fare pricing then most people don't actually lose.

The really cheap Northern Advances are generally sold well in advance and will remain.

 

[JonathanH]

Nobody knows how much it will be. But for the biggest area we can have a good guess that it will be approximately £16.

Will there even be a daily cap, given there isn't an anytime day one at present?

 

[The exile]

Are there any Advance tickets that are not TOC specific? And therefore don't they disappear?

Since advance tickets are by nature train specific the answer is pedantically both yes and no!