Wigan-Bolton services after electrification?

[cle]

Leeds already has 18 platforms (numbered 0 - 17). Surely they don't need more than that,

I meant - using others, not building just for this! I think more are planned though (for the Shipley lines) ?

 

[td97]

Interesting this morning to see 2V01 (0638) and 2V03 (0836) Wigan North Western to Manchester Victoria services diverted via Bolton this morning, owing to emergency services closing the Eccles line.

Realtime Trains | 2V03 0836 Wigan North Western to Manchester Victoria | 01/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 2V03 0836 departure from Wigan North Western to Manchester Victoria on 01/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Interesting this morning to see 2V03 0836 Wigan North Western to Manchester Victoria diverted via Bolton this morning, owing to emergency services closing the Eccles line.

Realtime Trains | 2V03 0836 Wigan North Western to Manchester Victoria | 01/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 2V03 0836 departure from Wigan North Western to Manchester Victoria on 01/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Yep, I noticed it earlier and put it in the other thread.
I asked the guard about it "did a 331 just pass us at Ince?" and they said aim is for December timetable change for Wigan - Stalybridge.

 

[Gricer99]

Which December? 2026? Nothing in RTT or Northern announcements for the upcoming December change.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Which December? 2026? Nothing in RTT or Northern announcements for the upcoming December change.

Just because they said it doesn't make it true.
I think they meant this change, but we already know that's not the case from RTT

 

[GhostManDN91]

I'm expecting it will be May 2026 timetable change personally but it's a waiting game at this point.

 

[Starmill]

I'm expecting it will be May 2026 timetable change personally but it's a waiting game at this point.

It is unlikely that any changes from today will be made until the next MTF (Manchester Taskforce) set of changes are made. This will be after the two new turnback sidings near Oldfield Road and hopefully one at Brewery Jn are in service.

 

[Viscount702]

It is unlikely that any changes from today will be made until the next MTF (Manchester Taskforce) set of changes are made. This will be after the two new turnback sidings near Oldfield Road and hopefully one at Brewery Jn are in service.

Is there any news on these. All very quiet. I believe work on the ones to the west of Central maybe about to start but I have not seen or heard anything whatsoever about the one(s) to east of Victoria

 

[Manutd1999]

I'm expecting it will be May 2026 timetable change personally but it's a waiting game at this point.

To remind, this scheme involved only 21km of electrification.

Work started in 2022 and we may not see any substantial benefit until mid-2026, or maybe even later. Not a great advert for future electrification schemes....

 

[pokemonsuper9]

any benefit whatsoever

It was used as a diversion route today, and allowed a football special to run last month.
Those are some benefits, however small.

 

[Manutd1999]

Fair point, I'll change to "any substantial benefit"

 

[Elecman]

Is there any news on these. All very quiet. I believe work on the ones to the west of Central maybe about to start but I have not seen or heard anything whatsoever about the one(s) to east of Victoria

The Brewery turn back is in final planning

 

[Viscount702]

The Brewery turn back is in final planning

Thanks for that.

I find it hard to understand why everything in and around Manchester takes so long. The go ahead and the funding for these and Platform 3 at Salford Crescent was announced in May 2023 and work only started this year. Bradford platform 4 announced in February 2024 and work started 2 months later and also opened later that year.

 

[Dspatula]

The Brewery turn back is in final planning

Is in still where Planner said it would be between Miles Platting Jn and Brewery Jn off the Down Rochdale, and is the electrification still included?
I can see why it might take a bit longer in that case, although the tender mentions a completion date in July this year.

 

[Starmill]

Thanks for that.

I find it hard to understand why everything in and around Manchester takes so long. The go ahead and the funding for these and Platform 3 at Salford Crescent was announced in May 2023 and work only started this year. Bradford platform 4 announced in February 2024 and work started 2 months later and also opened later that year.

Network Rail let construction contracts for Brewery Jn and Oldfield Road sidings quite a while ago now. It's a little scary that an access strategy hasn't been agreed until now. Bradford Forster Square is a relatively easy place to get access to as all it really needs is a bus plan between Shipley and Bradford Forster Square. The Brewery Jn area is almost as difficult as it comes. Although I still don't think that explains it entirely.

 

[childwallblues]

It is a pity that through peak hour service between Lime Street and Victoria via Bolton have never been restored which were cancelled prior to Lancashire Triangle Electrification.

 

[Kite159]

It is a pity that through peak hour service between Lime Street and Victoria via Bolton have never been restored which were cancelled prior to Lancashire Triangle Electrification.

I presume it would involve a reversal at Wigan North Western (Liverpool Lime Street - Wigan North Western) before heading towards Manchester via Bolton? Effectively only of benefit for the limited number wanting to visit the delights of Bolton considering I would imagine anybody wanting Manchester would be on a direct service.

 

[childwallblues]

I presume it would involve a reversal at Wigan North Western (Liverpool Lime Street - Wigan North Western) before heading towards Manchester via Bolton? Effectively only of benefit for the limited number wanting to visit the delights of Bolton considering I would imagine anybody wanting Manchester would be on a direct service.

I was thinking that the service could run via Newton-le-Willows. Passengers for the university at Salford Crescent could use it also.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Passengers for the university at Salford Crescent could use it also.

But why would they, when going via Wigan and Bolton would take far longer than just changing at Victoria, Deansagte or Oxford Road.

 

[Dspatula]

You could be very brutal about it by cutting Clitheroe/Blackburn past Bolton;
2 per hour Wigan - Victoria - Stalybridge 5 diagrams EMU
2 per hour Southport - Victoria - Rochdale 8 diagrams 15x/769
1 per hour Clitheroe- Bolton
1 per hour Blackburn- Bolton - 4 diagrams combined 15x
Force TPE to pick up and set down at Bolton or divert via Wigan.

Timetable works with Kearsley and Farnworth on one stopper and Moses Gate on the other, also with Kearsley and Farnworth on Wigan trains and Moses Gate on the Southport trains for peak times.
The Leeds - Wigan service would need delay by 3 to 4 minutes at Crow Nest Junction and the turn arounds at Stalybridge are quite tight at 9 1/2 minutes for one and 11 1/2 for the other.
First and last trains would be running through to Blackburn for stock transfer reasons.
Would probably divert one of the Wigan runs to and from Oxford Road at peak time with the run via Golborne using the path to Victoria but I haven't checked whether that would actually work as yet.
Advantages outside of this route would be the return of half hourly Liverpool Oxford Road stopping services all day.

Politically of course this would never happen

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Force TPE to pick up and set down at Bolton or divert via Wigan.

Who will do this "forcing"?

 

[Manutd1999]

2ph EMU all-stop Wigan-Bolton-Victoria-Stalybridge
1ph EMU all-stop Wigan-(Golbourne)-Victoria-Stalybridge
2ph DMU all-stop Wigan/Headbolt Ln-Atherton-Victoria-Rochdale
1ph DMU semi-fast Southport-Wigan-Atherton-Oxford Rd-Airport

That would be a reasonable compromise IMO (i.e. Southport keeps service to Castlefield but gets a reduction to 1ph overall, smaller stations get a minimum half-hourly service).

 

[pokemonsuper9]

2ph DMU all-stop Wigan/Headbolt Ln-Atherton-Victoria-Rochdale
1ph DMU semi-fast Southport-Wigan-Atherton-Oxford Rd-Airport

That would be a reasonable compromise IMO (i.e. Southport keeps service to Castlefield but gets a reduction to 1ph overall, smaller stations get a minimum half-hourly service).

Why not send the Wigan terminating service up to Southport, therefore keeping 2tph?

 

[Manutd1999]

It's an option but my thinking was to save diagrams/cost. I'm not sure Southport really needs 2ph? Maybe it could run as a peak only extension.

 

[The Planner]

Network Rail let construction contracts for Brewery Jn and Oldfield Road sidings quite a while ago now. It's a little scary that an access strategy hasn't been agreed until now. Bradford Forster Square is a relatively easy place to get access to as all it really needs is a bus plan between Shipley and Bradford Forster Square. The Brewery Jn area is almost as difficult as it comes. Although I still don't think that explains it entirely.

Internal wrangling about the completion date being too close to the timetable change from what the grape vine says.

 

[Starmill]

Internal wrangling about the completion date being too close to the timetable change from what the grape vine says.

Indeed so. But having in effect missed the boat a while ago on December 2026 the wrangling is in danger of missing the boat on May 2027 now.

Taking possession around Brewery Jn around the TRU works is also all but impossible.

 

[The Planner]

Indeed so. But having in effect missed the boat a while ago on December 2026 the wrangling is in danger of missing the boat on May 2027 now.

Taking possession around Brewery Jn around the TRU works is also all but impossible.

People may end up being persuaded that if the risk is low enough that it can be finished closer to the timetable change.

 

[Starmill]

Why not send the Wigan terminating service up to Southport, therefore keeping 2tph?

2tph Southport - Atherton - Manchester is definitely my strong preference. However, this is all but impossible to offer with one to Oxford Road and one to Victoria, so it is very unlikely.

 

[daveo]

There should be at least 1tph from Wigan to Piccadilly and the airport via Bolton- Chorley has 4tp Preston to the airport!!!

 

[amahy]

It's an option but my thinking was to save diagrams/cost. I'm not sure Southport really needs 2ph? Maybe it could run as a peak only extension.

Headbolt Lane is extremely lightly used outside of peak times, far less used than Southport line, yet you are suggesting that both lines get an equal service? All Headbolt Lane needs is a 2 car shuttle to Wigan off-peak in my opinion. The other problem is that almost nobody east of Manchester wants to go to Headbolt Lane.