Should we have a universal ID card?

[Iskra]

Attempting to build a system to work with existing ID cards would cost many many times what this will cost.

By far the cheapest way to do this is to implement a digital ID scheme.
You know, exactly like what is being proposed here.

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Because it will want it to be spent on things that align with government policy.
It gets 20% or so whatever happens, the extra is just gravy.

The cheapest solution would be to do nothing at all.

 

[DoubleLemon]

Attempting to build a system to work with existing ID cards would cost many many times what this will cost.

By far the cheapest way to do this is to implement a digital ID scheme.
You know, exactly like what is being proposed here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==


Because it will want it to be spent on things that align with government policy.
It gets 20% or so whatever happens, the extra is just gravy.

Nope, its really simple. Its all digital and its not a major task to share data.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes they can - its all digital - how do you think the ANPR system knows people have been disqualified.

It doesn't, because identifying a car doesn't tell you who is driving it.

 

[HSTEd]

Yes they can - its all digital - how do you think the ANPR system knows people have been disqualified. You may not be aware of these systems, so you can be forgiven but we can make drivers licences invalid. We could then alert petrol stations and they would not be allowed to let them fuel.

It knows people have been disqualified and are the registered keepers of cars that they can see driving around.

That does not, in of itself, tell them that the person disqualified is driving.

In any case, unless people drive their car inside the supermarket to the till to get red bull, that doesn't achieve what digital ID will achieve.

 

[styles]

Which wouldn't achieve what digital ID can achieve, because they have no way to remotely make drivers licences invalid.
They have no control mechanism, at absolute best they might be able to monitor but drivers licences aren't even easily machine readable.

I'm not really sure where this comment chain is going.

But it is worth pointing out that your driving licence is already digitised and available in the form of a DVLA check code.

If you got banned from driving today, then checked your DVLA account tomorrow, it would show that you are banned. The driving licence number on the plastic card remains the same even when you get a new licence, bar a couple of check digits and a couple of incremental licence numbers at the end. Thus, it would be possible to take a driver number, look it up on a DVLA database, and see that the driver is banned or the licence has been revoked, quite easily.

It would of course require an internet connection but I think whatever digital ID system we get it'll be online verification first, with offline verification used only when an internet connection is unavailable; much like how offline contactless transactions are only available when Internet connection is not reliable like on planes, or on TfL because of some bespoke work they did with the two main cars schemes.

 

[DoubleLemon]

It doesn't, because identifying a car doesn't tell you who is driving it.

They could easily require you to present the driving licence of the driver. This isn't the gotcha you think it is - as you would have the same issue with the ID card.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==

It knows people have been disqualified and are the registered keepers of cars that they can see driving around.

That does not, in of itself, tell them that the person disqualified is driving.

In any case, unless people drive their car inside the supermarket to the till to get red bull, that doesn't achieve what digital ID will achieve.

Thats because the conservative government gutted the traffic police in the country.

 

[styles]

It doesn't, because identifying a car doesn't tell you who is driving it.

Indeed, and the basis for which private company car parking charge notices are incredibly difficult to enforce in Scotland and Northern Ireland - we are not subject to the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 which can hold the registered keeper liable for breaches of contract made by a driver. Though ScotGov so have plans to change this, at some point, when they can be bothered.

 

[1D54]

And i wonder how much the government propose to charge us for these things? Makes no odds to me really as i don't own a smart phone and have never used a computer in my life so how do they propose to force me in to signing up for it..

 

[signed]

no.

function creep will go like this:

immigrants have their spending controlled.

the unemployed have their spending controlled.

everyone has their spending controlled.

No? That's exactly what any country don't want to do (and that's exactly what surveillance countries like the US or China don't do... It's very bad for the economy to not have a domestic market)

Again, Digital ID is NOT a bank card

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==

And i wonder how much the government propose to charge us for these things? Makes no odds to me really as i don't own a smart phone and have never used a computer in my life so how do they propose to force me in to signing up for it..

Nothing, data is what's going to get sold (or leaked) and how it will be funded

 

[HSTEd]

I'm not really sure where this comment chain is going.

But it is worth pointing out that your driving licence is already digitised and available in the form of a DVLA check code.

If you got banned from driving today, then checked your DVLA account tomorrow, it would show that you are banned. The driving licence number on the plastic card remains the same even when you get a new licence, bar a couple of check digits and a couple of incremental licence numbers at the end. Thus, it would be possible to take a driver number, look it up on a DVLA database, and see that the driver is banned or the licence has been revoked, quite easily.

It would of course require an internet connection but I think whatever digital ID system we get it'll be online verification first, with offline verification used only when an internet connection is unavailable; much like how offline contactless transactions are only available when Internet connection is not reliable like on planes, or on TfL because of some bespoke work they did with the two main cars schemes.

Yes, a driver licence number that has to be entered manually because it is not reliably machine readable.

This is entirely impractical to do for retail transactions, which is why the government has not required it.
Once the system is fully automated the liability requirements on retailers will impose checks for every single transaction.

And imposing mandatory drivers licences would be just as politically fraught as requiring a digital ID, so why not go for the latter which is more flexible and cheaper for the state.

 

[signed]

Once the system is fully automated the liability requirements on retailers will impose checks for every single transaction.

Again no. If they want to surveil what you do, it is much easier to get a feed of bank or phone data than do that.

China doesn't do that either, and we are talking about a country where everything you do is obligatorily linked to your real identity.

 

[HSTEd]

Again no. If they want to surveil what you do, it is be much easier to get a feed of bank or phone data than do that.

China doesn't do that either, and we are talking about a country where everything is obligatorily linked to you.

Bank data is not reliable without abolishing cash.
Phone data is not reliable unless you physically implant the phone into the person.

Both of these surveillance/control measures can be defeated trivially.

A compulsory ID avoids all these measures.

 

[styles]

Yes, a driver licence number that has to be entered manually because it is not reliably machine readable.

This is entirely impractical to do for retail transactions, which is why the government has not required it.
Once the system is fully automated the liability requirements on retailers will impose checks for every single transaction.

And imposing mandatory drivers licences would be just as politically fraught as requiring a digital ID, so why not go for the latter which is more flexible and cheaper for the state.

How is it not machine readable? It's printed in an all caps sans serif clear font on the front of the card. Even then, if we deemed OCR that bad (it's not), a QR code would sort it. Or indeed a scannable token inside the card like biometric passports

 

[HSTEd]

How is it not machine readable? It's printed in an all caps sans serif clear font on the front of the card. Even then, if we deemed OCR that bad (it's not), a QR code would sort it.

Sorry, machine readable and verifiable.

The reader has to not only read the number, but determine that the card is genuine.
That is a way bigger challenge without an all new card with electronics in it.

 

[signed]

The reader has to not only read the number, but determine that the card is genuine.

We have survived litteral decades/centuries without the ability to do that, why bother now, especially with the advent of basically only a nation state can forge a modern chip-based ID card

 

[HSTEd]

We have survived litteral decades/centuries without the ability to do that, why bother now

Because the whole claimed point of the digital ID scheme presented is to stop immigrants cheating right to work checks with fake documents.

I personally think that is stupid, but that is what the government says.

 

[signed]

Because the whole claimed point of the digital ID scheme presented is to stop immigrants cheating right to work checks with fake documents.

But that's because there aren't documents ready to do that, if you give the opportunity to someone to cheat, they will.

A free-to-obtain ID card (physical, digital or whatever) would have solved that problem decades ago.

 

[jfollows]

The last Labour voluntary ID card cost £30 each in £2005, revised to £60 in 2009 when processing fees were included. Pretty much £100 today.

70 million people, so £7 billion? Who is going to pay?

That’s totally separate from the infrastructure to store and validate the data, of course.

 

[1D54]

The last Labour voluntary ID card cost £30 each in £2005, revised to £60 in 2009 when processing fees were included. Pretty much £100 today.

70 million people, so £7 billion? Who is going to pay?

That’s totally separate from the infrastructure to store and validate the data, of course.

Difference being the last time we were talking about physical credit card style cards for the population not digital which would cost a small percentage compared to the 2009 version.

 

[jfollows]

I disagree. Physical cards don’t cost £30. Most of the cost is in processing the data.

 

[stadler]

Just been announced [edit: reported] that ID's will become compulsory. This is a long time overdue IMHO.

Lets hope the new system is not hackable??

Keir Starmer to announce plans for digital ID scheme

The prime minister believes a new scheme would help crack down on illegal working in the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

What a joke. If you really want to waste money on such a system then fine but make it optional. I will certainly not be signing up for this new nonsense ID service even if it is compulsory. I have a passport to prove my identity which has worked fine my entire life. I do not want a digital ID or a physical ID card and i can guarantee that a large percentage of other people do not want one either.

 

[Class 317]

I have a passport and a driving licence. I see no need to have any further ID. I will not carry any with me on a day to day basis.

Any ID would replace the driving licence in all likelihood.

 

[J663738]

If the ID also had motor licence details, NHS organ donations etc and could be used as a key to the Government Gateway system, great. When you see students carrying around their passports in their back pockets you realise a national ID is needed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==

Every country in the EU except Ireland have one, so why so much opposition in the UK??

 

[signed]

Every country in the EU except Ireland have one, so why so much opposition in the UK??

Ireland does have a EU-compliant National ID card, it's just named passport card for whatever reason. It's Denmark that doesn't have one at all though there a drivers license works in most cases as ID.

 

[brad465]

Every country in the EU except Ireland have one, so why so much opposition in the UK??

Because a critical mass of the population have an "English exceptionalism" mindset, while they are also easy to manipulate through lack of critical thinking and a media landscape that will peddle agendas for clicks, usually by cooking up scare stories that sell well. While the EU is not devoid of these, it's not as strong there.

 

[J663738]

What a joke. If you really want to waste money on such a system then fine but make it optional. I will certainly not be signing up for this new nonsense ID service even if it is compulsory. I have a passport to prove my identity which has worked fine my entire life. I do not want a digital ID or a physical ID card and i can guarantee that a large percentage of other people do not want one either.

Yes, a few years ago I would have said the same, but now I think it's sadly needed.

 

[brad465]

What a joke. If you really want to waste money on such a system then fine but make it optional. I will certainly not be signing up for this new nonsense ID service even if it is compulsory. I have a passport to prove my identity which has worked fine my entire life. I do not want a digital ID or a physical ID card and i can guarantee that a large percentage of other people do not want one either.

According to YouGov's poll tracker on this issue, 57% either strongly or tend to support their introduction, as of June 2025. Granted a few months have passed and the actual announcement of the policy will change that opinion, but in recent years polled support has been a majority when combining those two supportive metrics.

 

[westv]

According to YouGov's poll tracker on this issue, 57% either strongly or tend to support their introduction, as of June 2025. Granted a few months have passed and the actual announcement of the policy will change that opinion, but in recent years polled support has been a majority when combining those two supportive metrics.

That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

[jfollows]

The headlines I have seen mainly refer to working adults being required to have the identity card, which means that I won’t be required to have one with luck, and that it won’t replace the driving licence completely.
Let’s see if mission creep expands the scope, or perhaps the headlines are wrong?
The Mail thinks that renters would need one also - I sold the property I was renting when I heard about the “right to rent” legislation.

 

[43096]

It gets 20% or so whatever happens, the extra is just gravy.

True. But if you spend nothing instead of something, 20% of nothing is nothing.