South Wales Metro - Future

[edwin_m]

The south side of the booking hall is hard up against track 0 so this wall would have to go with platform encroaching maybe 2m into building.
This would retain all of Northern facade and most of Eastern and Western facade.

It might be possible to retain most if not all of the art deco roof by using it as the platform canopy - with upper level platform separated from lower level booking hall by a glass wall - with platform access at each end of booking hall.

To do this it would be necessary to retain some columns adjacent to track- this could be done with careful planning of door openings...

There are minimum standards for platform width and for clearance of columns or other obstructions from the platform edge, and at a busy station a greater than standard width might be needed for safe passenger flow. These would make the cut into the south side of the building considerably more than 2m (depending on how far the wall is from the track). It would need columns further back and some kind of cantilevered structure to support the southern edge of the roof. Not impossible but sounding rather costly.

 

[chrisjo]

I can't help thinking that we've got into new thread territory here. Maybe a split is in order?

 

[Smwrff]

I don't know the minimum clearances but you could extend platform 4m into building relatively easily without any platform obstructions or constraints - but it would limit how much of vaulted roof that could be retained.

I guess we will find out soon enough.

 

[Snow1964]

Wales News appears to have a Heads Up that an announcement will happen next week on rail funding of capital works (jointly by UK and Welsh Government)

Lots of potential schemes mentioned, including metro improvements, Cardiff upgrades, new stations, electrification etc

(Will try and quote later, but iPad is refusing to copy at moment)

UK and Welsh governments to announce direction of travel to address rail scandal

It builds on discussions between Welsh Transport Secretary Ken Skates his UK Government counterpart Heidi Alexander and Welsh Secretary Jo Stevens

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[positron]

With the all but confirmed plan for the class 231s to be given pantographs its got me wondering if this will push for at least electrification to Bridgend so it can be utilised more effectively. That way it's less diesel for the GWR trains and also less for the Maestegs. Also would allow them to do a fixed conductor bar setup in platform 1a to allow the Bridgend 756s to recharge.

 

[MikePJ]

Certainly Welsh Government has aspirations to electrify the main line - it's a matter of sorting the funding.

 

[anthony263]

Certainly Welsh Government has aspirations to electrify the main line - it's a matter of sorting the funding.

I suspect se could see the extra funding come in the spring statement. Given the recent admition about underfunding the Welsh rail network i think it be quite a good piece of news for both governments if they greenlight wires to Swansea and perhaps even Filton Bank to Bristol TM.

Quick easy wins there for them.

 

[positron]

I think filton to Bristol only makes sense if they fund the burns stations as that's the only service that would really use it. Unless they also do Swindon to Bristol and make it a fully electric diversionary route.

I think wires to Bridgend at least + part of North Wales mainline is the most likely to happen. Depends how much money they're willing to actually spend.

 

[anthony263]

I think filton to Bristol only makes sense if they fund the burns stations as that's the only service that would really use it. Unless they also do Swindon to Bristol and make it a fully electric diversionary route.

I think wires to Bridgend at least + part of North Wales mainline is the most likely to happen. Depends how much money they're willing to actually spend.

Speculation i suspect but there's talk around Bristol that we will see the go ahead given to the wires being extended to Bristol TM and Portishead being given green light in the spring statement.

Hopefully will include news of electrification to Swansea

 

[positron]

Speculation i suspect but there's talk around Bristol that we will see the go ahead given to the wires being extended to Bristol TM and Portishead being given green light in the spring statement.

Hopefully will include news of electrification to Swansea

I actually wonder if they'd be better off just doing to Bridgend to get the benefit for the 231s and and 756s and spending the other money on North Wales or other projects. Given most Swansea trains go through to Carmarthen now you don't gain much going to Swansea. (Well obviously less emissions but you don't get pure emu running or saved weight from lack of diesels)

Can resume to Swansea in future if the metro services ever get going where you'd want an electric back bone for your bi/tri modes.

 

[anthony263]

I actually wonder if they'd be better off just doing to Bridgend to get the benefit for the 231s and and 756s and spending the other money on North Wales or other projects. Given most Swansea trains go through to Carmarthen now you don't gain much going to Swansea. (Well obviously less emissions but you don't get pure emu running or saved weight from lack of diesels)

Can resume to Swansea in future if the metro services ever get going where you'd want an electric back bone for your bi/tri modes.

Split swanline at Swansea again like it was. Running through to Pembroke Dock already causes delays ill have to see how it goes this summer

 

[positron]

With the recent funding announcements with confirmed money towards Cardiff West Junction and the Burns stations, there was an intriguing mention of £48m for CVL enhancements which isn't particularly much money and I'm curious what I might be used towards? What's the price of say the hirwaun extension?

 

[The exile]

With the recent funding announcements with confirmed money towards Cardiff West Junction and the Burns stations, there was an intriguing mention of £48m for CVL enhancements which isn't particularly much money and I'm curious what I might be used towards? What's the price of say the hirwaun extension?

Would an expansion / reopening count as an “enhancement” - or is that more like raising speed limits, accessibility improvements, station upgrades (£48 million buys quite a few benches and flower baskets!) and the like?

 

[positron]

It's ambiguous tbh.

£48 million for the Welsh Government for enhancements of the Core Valley Lines rail network;

This could range from some new CCTV all the way to a new station or line.

I expect it will probably be a disappointment for those of us wanting more. I suspect maybe a few extra trains and a passing loop near Coryton. But hopefully it can stretch a bit further...

 

[John R]

Short extension of the Coryton line to the new hospital?

 

[anthony263]

Short extension of the Coryton line to the new hospital?

I think they'd rather install a loop first

 

[John R]

I think they'd rather install a loop first

Not so much “rather” as a loop would be a prerequisite for any extension, but I would have thought the placing might depend on whether an extension is planned.

 

[MikePJ]

With the recent funding announcements with confirmed money towards Cardiff West Junction and the Burns stations, there was an intriguing mention of £48m for CVL enhancements which isn't particularly much money and I'm curious what I might be used towards? What's the price of say the hirwaun extension?

Hirwaun is supposed to be funded by the Cardiff Capital Region joint authority. The £48m is more likely to be additional stations in Cardiff, especially given that the announcement also included an upgrade to Cardiff West Junction. So, to my mind, the money will be spent on a) Ely Mill station and 4tph on the City Line, b) Crwys Road station c) Gabalfa station. If there’s still cash left over after that, then TfW have also had plans for an additional station at Roath Park to serve the Heath Hospital, though I think that’s more likely to be funded with Cardiff Crossrail phase 2 (along with a passing loop on the Coryton branch)

 

[tigermonstera]

Three other CVL schemes that could potentially receive funding within the timeline of the Spending Review:

• Caerphilly Interchange.
• Merthyr Interchange (including a second platform).
• Treforest Estate relocation.

 

[MikePJ]

Just tying together some discussion on another thread - AdamWW pointed out that increasing Coryton to 4tph by providing a 2tph service to Radyr via the City Line was being discussed at one stage, and this makes a lot of sense in the context of this announcement. So some of the £48m would go on a passing loop on the Coryton branch and some extra trains (my money is on 398s, as when they start/finish duty at Radyr they can easily travel to Taff's Well for maintenance). Also, correcting my post above - Cardiff Council's long-term plan prioritised the station at Roath Park (likely on Wedal Rd) over a Gabalfa station because of the need to improve rail access to the hospital.

 

[Farigiraf]

Posting this here rather than the main South Wales Metro thread to avoid non-confirmed plans potentially confusing people (like I am to an extent). I have some queries as I'm not sure what has got funding/confirmation and what hasn't, as well as what the service patterns will be. I understand that, especially with service patterns, some things are unclear/unconfirmed, but any info would be helpful.

From what I've read on this forum, these are some improvements which are yet to come to fruition:
- 4tph to Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil
- 4tph on the City Line
- 4tph to Coryton
- 2tph to Bridgend via Barry
- 4tph to Rhymney
As I understand it, out of these, the ones that have been confirmed are 4tph to Rhymney and the TAM lines.

I assume the extra 2tph to Rhymney will come as an extension of the Bargoed terminators, so these will function as all-stops services to Rhymney. Currently the intermediate stops between Bargoed and Rhymney (Brithdir, Tir-Phil, Pontlottyn) are served northbound by the Bridgend service and southbound by the Barry Island service. Will these calls transfer to the service that will be extended from Bargoed, providing 2tph to both, or will all Rhymney services start calling at these stations (or something else entirely)?

Aberdare and Merthyr are served by a loop route via Cardiff which runs twice an hour. If increasing services to 4tph, will it just be a doubling in frequency of this service?

Bridgend via Barry is currently 1tph which should, in my opinion, certainly be increased at some point. Two of the Bargoed (to be Rhymney) services terminate at Barry Island, with the current Rhymney trains alternating between going to Barry Island and Bridgend, resulting in 1tph to Bridgend and 3tph to Barry Island. Considering only the to-be FLIRT operated routes (so no TAM lines), one potential way of increasing Bridgend services while not running extra 1tph services here and there (and not overserving Rhymney) could be to run 2tph from Coryton.
One to Bridgend and the other to Barry Island to give it a more even 4tph over 3tph. Now I don't know if there's capacity for this but, post Cardiff West upgrade, 6tph (Grangetown-Barry) on a 2-track railway should be possible. This then gives the Coryton line a much-needed 4tph, but there would still be 1 gap in the core valley line network, the City line.

While certainly in speculative territory here (appropriate for the thread, but I still wouldn't want to get too 'crayonista', also I've seen this proposal posted before) one way of filling this gap would be to reinstate a half-hourly Coryton-Radyr service. This could extend to Treherbert to give the Rhondda line 4tph. The key question then is whether the Coryton line can handle 6tph? I assume that without redoubling the answer is no, but if you need redoubling for just 4tph, then at this rate it's probably inevitable that it'll happen at some point.

 

[EveningStarr]

The Coryton 4tph is, unfortunately, not part of the initial 'Metro' promises. It would seem a no-brainer to most people, but I guess the traffic is already there on the Taff lines to justify the redoubling, whereas Coryton would need a better service in order to attract more passengers.

With regards to timetabling, I personally don't think 36tph through Queen Street is possible, as despite the South Junction improvements, the widening of the Newport Road bridge has been ruled out for now. We shall see...

A 'quick' win, once the stock becomes available, is to extend the current Ponty-Bays to Treherbert (Treherberts currently xx00/xx30 off CDQ, and a decent gap till the Pontys at xx12/xx42). This would at least up one of them to 4tph as an initial step without straining Cardiff, the additional Merthyrs and Aberdares to follow.

The second Vale of Glamorgan train could simply be a Cardiff Central-Bridgend shuttle initially, using 150, 153 or 197 stock, as it's mainline train crew who work these.

All speculation of course!

 

[tigermonstera]

Posting this here rather than the main South Wales Metro thread to avoid non-confirmed plans potentially confusing people (like I am to an extent). I have some queries as I'm not sure what has got funding/confirmation and what hasn't, as well as what the service patterns will be. I understand that, especially with service patterns, some things are unclear/unconfirmed, but any info would be helpful.

From what I've read on this forum, these are some improvements which are yet to come to fruition:
- 4tph to Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil
- 4tph on the City Line
- 4tph to Coryton
- 2tph to Bridgend via Barry
- 4tph to Rhymney
As I understand it, out of these, the ones that have been confirmed are 4tph to Rhymney and the TAM lines.

In answer to some of these questions:

Aberdare and Merthyr are served by a loop route via Cardiff which runs twice an hour. If increasing services to 4tph, will it just be a doubling in frequency of this service?

The increase will come from extending the Cardiff Bay to Pontypridd service to Treherbert, Aberdare, and Merthyr and increasing its frequency to 6tph. This why Cardiff Bay is currently being doubled.This will results in 2tph from Treherbert, Aberdare, and Merthyr each to Cardiff Central and 2tph from Treherbert, Aberdare, and Merthyr each to Cardiff Bay, giving 12tph between Pontypridd and Radyr. The current Aberdare-Merthyr loop will remain as is. (Link, see page 6).

Bridgend via Barry is currently 1tph which should, in my opinion, certainly be increased at some point. Two of the Bargoed (to be Rhymney) services terminate at Barry Island, with the current Rhymney trains alternating between going to Barry Island and Bridgend, resulting in 1tph to Bridgend and 3tph to Barry Island.

The original plan was to run an extra 1tph between Bridgend and Cardiff Central. The plans for Cardiff West published by Cardiff Council in 2021 (Link) have VoG and Penarth services routed through platforms 7 and 8, which I imagine wouldn't leave room for terminating an extra Bridgend at central. Another option could be to use Caerphilly's terminating platform.

- 4tph on the City Line
- 4tph to Coryton

Nothing has been confirmed yet, but considering Cardiff West was allocated funding in the spending review, alongside £48 million for CVL enhancements, and that TfW have been told to procure new trains, we could be moving in this direction.

A 'quick' win, once the stock becomes available, is to extend the current Ponty-Bays to Treherbert (Treherberts currently xx00/xx30 off CDQ, and a decent gap till the Pontys at xx12/xx42). This would at least up one of them to 4tph as an initial step without straining Cardiff, the additional Merthyrs and Aberdares to follow.

This reflects TfW's current plan:

Initially, two out of the four services per hour from Treherbert will travel to Cardiff Queen Street and then onwards to Cardiff Bay. In addition to this, we’ll continue to run our Cardiff Queen Street to Cardiff Bay shuttle services, maintaining a frequency of 4 trains per hour. In late 2027, the timetable will be altered to allow for two out of four services from Merthyr, Aberdare and Treherbert to travel to Cardiff Queen Street and then onwards to Cardiff Bay, delivering 6 trains per hour to Cardiff Bay.

(Link, see "Response 163 25.pdf").

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2025 ==

The second Vale of Glamorgan train could simply be a Cardiff Central-Bridgend shuttle initially, using 150, 153 or 197 stock, as it's mainline train crew who work these.

Looking through FoI requests, it appears the use of 197s has/is being considered:

In the longer term, services between Cardiff and Bridgend will (mainly) be resourced with our new Stadler Flirt cl.756 trains, which have 3- or 4-cars. We can’t introduce these until 2026 because although these units do have a diesel engine, its not sufficient for traction power – only topping up the battery, so the units need the overhead line to be energised on enough of the Cardiff <> Rhymney line to charge the batteries for the journey between Cardiff and Bridgend (and back). (The 2026 date is taken from our current plan, but needs to be caveated because the CVL transformation continues to be subject to change.)

Its also possible that we may choose to use the CAF cl.197 Civity train for journeys just between Cardiff and Bridgend, but certainly the majority of the service is intended to be resourced with Stadler Flirt trains.

(Link)

 

[Farigiraf]

The increase will come from extending the Cardiff Bay to Pontypridd service to Treherbert, Aberdare, and Merthyr and increasing its frequency to 6tph. This why Cardiff Bay is currently being doubled.This will results in 2tph from Treherbert, Aberdare, and Merthyr each to Cardiff Central and 2tph from Treherbert, Aberdare, and Merthyr each to Cardiff Bay, giving 12tph between Pontypridd and Radyr. The current Aberdare-Merthyr loop will remain as is. (Link, see page 6).

Ah, I had forgotten about the Pontypridd-Bay service. That makes sense. Once Cardiff Crossrail (the initial section through Callaghan Square) is complete will some of the 6tph be diverted that way?

The original plan was to run an extra 1tph between Bridgend and Cardiff Central. The plans for Cardiff West published by Cardiff Council in 2021 (Link) have VoG and Penarth services routed through platforms 7 and 8, which I imagine wouldn't leave room for terminating an extra Bridgend at central. Another option could be to use Caerphilly's terminating platform.

I had presumed that there was no terminating space at Cardiff Central considering there's around 15tph just on the core valley routes going through it. For a quick win, using the Caerphilly terminating platform would work but in the longer term, Coryton makes the most sense (without any new branch lines) as Caerphilly already has 6tph including 4tph all-stops to Cardiff. 197s are okay for the time being if there are no FLIRTs available, but every 197 being used on a commuter service is one not providing an equally important regional service so they would really have to get on with the recently announced new train procurement (hopefully for more FLIRTs ).

Nothing has been confirmed yet, but considering Cardiff West was allocated funding in the spending review, alongside £48 million for CVL enhancements, and that TfW have been told to procure new trains, we could be moving in this direction.

If 4tph to TAM is obtained by more Cardiff Bay trains then I do wonder where any additional City Line trains would be routed. Of course it was Radyr in the past but that seems counterintuitive as Pontypridd 4 stops away is a much larger settlement, but once you've reached Pontypridd there'll eventually be calls to extend that even further. Probably to Merthyr as it's the busiest but I wonder if that may be slightly overkill. Either way, this is a good time for businesses to invest in that area.

 

[tigermonstera]

Ah, I had forgotten about the Pontypridd-Bay service. That makes sense. Once Cardiff Crossrail (the initial section through Callaghan Square) is complete will some of the 6tph be diverted that way?

I don't think this has been announced yet. The most recent on the service pattern is that it will be 3tph Bay-Central until 2033, rising to 6tph thereafter (Link, see page 10 of the Design and Access Statement). Long term, one option TfW mentioned back in 2022 was to extend TAM service beyond Cardiff Bay, across Roath Basin, and on to Porth Teigr and Alexandra Head:

Red line

A service which we're currently building as part of South Wales Metro between the Core Valley Lines, Cardiff Queen Street and Cardiff Bay, with potential extensions to Alexandra Head.

Blue Line

A proposed service running between Cardiff Central and Newport Road, via Cardiff Bay and Roath Dock. A number of options exist to serve either Roath Dock Road, Compass Road or Lewis Road.

(Link, see project information pack)

 

[Envoy]

Perhaps they could run the service from Bridgend via Rhoose through to Cheltenham?

Top priority for any line extension must surely be the quick win of extending from Aberdare to Hirwaun?

 

[MikePJ]

op priority for any line extension must surely be the quick win of extending from Aberdare to Hirwaun?

A TfW planner told me that they are actively progressing this, but nothing has been publicly announced yet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2025 ==

City Line: I’m fairly sure we’ll get 2tph Coryton-Radyr once Cardiff West and the Rhiwbina passing loop is done.

 

[daodao]

City Line: I’m fairly sure we’ll get 2tph Coryton-Radyr once Cardiff West and the Rhiwbina passing loop is done.

The current practice of curtailing Coryton line trains well short of the terminus is likely to be driving away custom. Increasing the service frequency would then be considered not to be warranted, and in any case requires installation of a passing loop and signalling to permit more than 1 train on the branch.

In the past, a late running train would just cut the stops between Heath Low Level and Coryton and then call at these missed stations on the return journey.

 

[Envoy]

A TfW planner told me that they are actively progressing this, but nothing has been publicly announced yet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2025 ==

A TfW planner told me that they are actively progressing this, but nothing has been publicly announced yet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2025 ==

City Line: I’m fairly sure we’ll get 2tph Coryton-Radyr once Cardiff West and the Rhiwbina passing loop is done.

Good to hear on both counts: if Hirwaun is reached, perhaps a local mini bus operator could link the trains with the zip line attraction at the former Tower Colliery as well as the village of Penderyn. As well as serving the locals, Penderyn also has the whisky distillery tourist attraction and a footpath leading to Scwd-y-Eira waterfall.

A new Velindre Hospital is being built just to the west of what is now the Coryton terminus and I believe it is the intention to at least extend the line to a new station by the hospital. The ultimate goal for this line would be to reach Radyr and thus form a circular route around many densely populated Cardiff suburbs.

 

[MikePJ]

Good to hear on both counts: if Hirwaun is reached, perhaps a local mini bus operator could link the trains with the zip line attraction at the former Tower Colliery as well as the village of Penderyn. As well as serving the locals, Penderyn also has the whisky distillery tourist attraction and a footpath leading to Scwd-y-Eira waterfall.

A new Velindre Hospital is being built just to the west of what is now the Coryton terminus and I believe it is the intention to at least extend the line to a new station by the hospital. The ultimate goal for this line would be to reach Radyr and thus form a circular route around many densely populated Cardiff suburbs.

Hirwaun has potential for traffic in both directions: people living in the village commuting down to Pontypridd or Cardiff, but also leisure demand for access to tourist attractions and bus routes into the Bannau Breiciniog, and that would include Penderyn. The bus fare integration that’s also coming will make this a lot more attractive.