How Viable are Preserved Railways?

[Krokodil]

Even on the trains, why not put information posters up explaining the development of the Mk1, or with stickers on tables, even if the dreaded pacer is used make a feature of it and actually explain why it was developed to a budget, what it replaced etc, and suddenly it might be more interesting to non enthusiasts than just bouncing slowly along a fairly dull route on something they used to go to work on.

I'm not sure that the development of the Mk1 can be made into anything not-dull. Pre-grouping stock on the other hand often has a very interesting history - reclassification, smoking, reuse as a garden shed etc.

 

[12C]

The problem with intermediate stations is that for breaking the journey there to be attractive to most visitors a fairly frequent timetable needs to be run.

This is where a DMU or a Pacer can come in handy to fill timetable gaps at relatively low cost, something the KWVR does well with its 144 complementing the steam service.

If possible a feature could even be made of walks between stations, usually the distance between them isn’t that far and as a lot of lines are in attractive rural surroundings. Recommend a few pubs along the way and that’s even more value added to the experience.

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I'm not sure that the development of the Mk1 can be made into anything not-dull. Pre-grouping stock on the other hand often has a very interesting history - reclassification, smoking, reuse as a garden shed etc.

I would personally disagree, while Mk1s are themselves quite basic the history of them I find quite interesting. Taking the best features of big four stock, making a standard UK wide design, how they transitioned from post war steam to modernisation era. Also how they were developed into XP64, Mk2 design, air cons, Mk3s, the development of EMUs based on them etc etc…

 

[andyjhatton]

The problem with intermediate stations is that for breaking the journey there to be attractive to most visitors a fairly frequent timetable needs to be run.

This is a crucial point for me.
With the typical 4-train timetable the Severn Valley now run, it's not really feasible to do anything meaningful at more than one station (e.g. visit the Engine House then continue on for a few drinks in Bridgnorth)

 

[12C]

This is a crucial point for me.
With the typical 4-train timetable the Severn Valley now run, it's not really feasible to do anything meaningful at more than one station (e.g. visit the Engine House then continue on for a few drinks in Bridgnorth)

It does seem possible looking at the timetable, but it means setting off on the first departure and probably returning on the last, giving you at least an hour at a couple of intermediate stops as well as a break at Bridgnorth.

I appreciate it’s not always possible if long distance travel is involved, but if I’m taking my wife and kids and spending anywhere between £70-£100 for a family day rover, that’s what I’d want, a full day’s entertainment. If I was visiting a theme park, large museum e.g. Beamish, farm park etc we’re there for opening (as are most visitors) and going home at closing time. I’d be disappointed to spend that much and be going home after half a day.

Maybe that’s something preserved lines need to look at too, suggesting possible itineraries based on the timetable to make the most of all they have to offer.

 

[DJ_K666]

Bluebell doesn't help itself by having relatively big fleet, in steam, diesel and rolling stock. It would be tragedy to loose all the prewar coaches but they can't be cheap to maintain

Think the fact they've been building their OP4 shed as well as operating a longer line has definitely been a factor. Plus the purchase of the Ardingly route as well.

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I think people just don't have the money to spare, and when they do visit a heritage line, or centre, its when there is a special attraction or gala , and they see it as being better value for money, Things like on train dining are actually doing well people will spend if it's for a special occasion,

I think there needs to be a new reality, that no railway is too big to not go under, and there are some unpalatable things that will have to be done, costs are rising faster than income, so costs have to be controlled, fewer trains, possibly more use of DMU/,Deisel traction, with steam being used less, and some projects will have to be put on the back burner, I expect at least one line will suffer a very near miss, and have to radically change its way of working, and some high level people will have to be let go, I think the NYMR will very nearly go under, because of mis management and decisions it's made, and will have to drastically change its priorities, the golden goose that was Whitby, could very well become a mill stone round he railways head.

I do think there'll be a service restructuring. More diesel trains, less Whitby trains, etc.

 

[Krokodil]

Isn’t Whitby the big income source though?

 

[Dave W]

I would personally disagree, while Mk1s are themselves quite basic the history of them I find quite interesting.

At risk of being a bit rude, I suspect you're not the average market for this (although I note you mention your family later) - I doubt the average punter would give a sod about the mk1 - not even some rail enthusiasts.

I agree with your later post 100% though. I always hold any "heritage" attraction to the standard of the Black Country Living Museum, which is a phenomenal DAY out. Not half a day.

If you're home and hosed in under half a day, the railway you visited has lost business.

Really like the suggested itinerary too - take the load off the harassed parent. "Daaaaad which trains are we getting" - well I'll refer to this handy guide and go from there. Leading the horse to water, maybe, but as a parent if you can plan my day for me...

 

[NER1621]

Point of information on paid staff numbers - unless you know whether the figures quoted are “full-time-equivalent” or actual discrete individuals then you can’t make any meaningful comparisons between the railways.

Also: the Dartmouth Steam Railway is not a heritage railway: it’s a stripped-down commercial excursion using steam locos & old carriages as its USP. It doesn’t carry a load of excess stock needing care and restoration, it isn’t a registered museum or environmental charity with curatorial and conservation responsibilities which it has to discharge in order to get grants, it no longer bothers with intermediate stations as they don’t contribute to the bottom line, and it doesn’t see itself as having any greater purpose than making a return for its shareholders. Of course it manages with fewer staff.

 

[railfan99]

It’s a shame to see so many lines neglecting their intermediate stations. These could be a great opportunity to break a journey and make them into an attraction of their own. For example have each station set in a different era with appropriate signage, e.g. Victorian, pre WW2 grouping, post war 1950s BR then 60s/70s modernisation. Each with plenty of information of their history and artefacts where space allows.

Is your contention correct?

Great Central Railway themes each station differently, as does North Norfolk Railway.

As a foreigner who's now travelled on many of your wonderful preserved railways, many take pride in their intermediate stations.

West Somerset Railway, Bluebell Railway, the Watercress line, North Yorkshire Moors Railway and East Lancashire Railway are a few that quickly spring to mind.

Those that don't may lack volunteers to undertake gardening and painting, to mention two of the tasks necessary at these stations.

 

[JohnR]

I just want to celebrate a heritage railway that I think IS doing things right (maybe I'm biased as it is my local line) - the Caledonian Railway in Brechin. Its not as big as some, just 4 miles long, but that gives a 20 minute trip each way, which is probably about right.

According the Scottish Charity Commision website, they've made a profit in each of the last 4 years (most recent published figures are for end December 2023). They made a surplus of £260k, and in previous years made substantial surpluses too. The result is that they have £1.2million in funds, and at the same time have managed to make substantial improvements - the most visible perhaps being the restoration of the platform canopy at Brechin station. Other works have included a larger shed for their diesel locomotives.

Their main catering operation is a privately run cafe that operates within the Brechin station building, which is also open on non-running days through the summer). The cafe also provides catering for the 'Afternoon Tea' specials the railway run too.

They also have ambitions for further growth and improvements in the experience, and all this has been achieved without having any paid staff (possibly a reason for the surplus funds?)

 

[satisnek]

Even on the trains, why not put information posters up explaining the development of the Mk1

The SVR has just this - a framed A4 sheet in one of the end vestibules of every coach detailing its construction and history. But how many travellers have noticed them?

 

[The exile]

The SVR has just this - a framed A4 sheet in one of the end vestibules of every coach detailing its construction and history. But how many travellers have noticed them?

Problem with that is that when you’re in the vestibule your priority is either getting on and finding a seat or getting off. At those times, stopping to read something means you’re in other peoples’ way.

 

[satisnek]

Problem with that is that when you’re in the vestibule your priority is either getting on and finding a seat or getting off. At those times, stopping to read something means you’re in other peoples’ way.

I know... The only people ever likely to notice them are 'window hangers'

 

[Rhubarb Loop]

I'm member of the South Devon Railway and their Bulliver magazine has a regular item on membership. The latest edition states that membership numbers are "considerably less than pre-Covid". Given that Covid restrictions ended over four years ago, I find this surprising. Of course Covid is still around but so are other viruses and we all have access to vaccines. Is there a similar trend on other railways?

Due to the quirks of its history, the South Devon Railway itself doesn’t offer membership, but the South Devon Railway Association does, owning locomotives such as 1420 and 1369 based on the line. I considered joining recently, but the process required printing a form and sending a cheque. Like many people, I no longer have a chequebook, and I suspect this outdated system is a significant reason why Association membership is declining.
In any case, Association numbers shouldn’t be taken as a measure of the railway’s financial viability, nor do they have any correlation with tourist visitor numbers, as the Association is a separate body from the railway itself.

 

[Black Watch]

When in my first post in the thread I asked about identified reasons for the decline in visitors, most early answers identified a combination of rising operating costs and therefore fares plus falling disposable incomes leading to frustrated demand: that the issue was people still wanted to visit heritage railways but were finding it harder to afford rising fares.

The later answers are suggesting that the problem is a fall in interest in visiting heritage railways regardless of the cost, rather than frustrated demand.

Another thread discussed whether the declining numbers of people with personal memories of steam in service might lead to more interest in older diesel traction, and the majority of 'insiders' replied that steam remains the big attraction even with those who never saw it in service.

Does anyone know of any systematic market research into these sorts of issues? Do fewer people take an interest, or is cost the big problem? Do older visitors come to see trains like those they recall from their youth, or to see steam even if they never saw it as children?

Having turned 60 this year, I guess I count as an 'older visitor'. When I go to heritage railways - admittedly much less often than I did, mostly because of increased ticket prices - I want to see the trains I rode on/spotted/photographed in childhood/early adulthood. Born in 1965, I do not have any affinity with steam. For me, nostalgia is entirely about first generation DMUs and first generation diesel locomotives. I don't mind steam. It's OK but it really doesn't stir anything inside. In October 2024, I had a very enjoyable, back-end-of-season day on the KWVR, riding up and down - four times! - in the line's Class 108 DMU. A £20 day rover ticket seemed very reasonable.

For the heritage sector, I suspect declining interest in railways is going to become (has become already?) a massive issue, in terms of attracting volunteers and 'normals'. Interest (including mine, I'm afraid) in railways has fallen off a cliff since the 1980s, probably because today's railway is unspeakably dull. The trains are plug ugly lookalikes and most of the interesting lineside infrastructure has been stripped away. Can sufficient volunteers be found amid a steadily shrinking pool of enthusiasts?

We (my wife and I) decided against taking a trip on the NYMR this year when we saw its revised fare and timetable structures. Judging by the comments, here and elsewhere, of other would-be visitors, we are not alone. Instead, locally, we have had a couple of return trips to Whitby, from the outskirts of Middlesbrough, on the scenically superior Esk Valley line. Costs about a tenner apiece for a return ticket. Compared to the NYMR, a steal.

Heading down to Somerset shortly, for a two-week break, and plan to visit the West Somerset Railway (first time since the late 1990s, when I lived and worked for a time in Exeter). The WSR's day rover ticket - circa £33, IIRC - seems like good value (if we opt for a day when the timetable is 'busy'). I'll be interested, at the back end of the season, to see how many visitors this line attracts.

 

[railfan99]

Heading down to Somerset shortly, for a two-week break, and plan to visit the West Somerset Railway (first time since the late 1990s, when I lived and worked for a time in Exeter). The WSR's day rover ticket - circa £33, IIRC - seems like good value (if we opt for a day when the timetable is 'busy'). I'll be interested, at the back end of the season, to see how many visitors this line attracts.

Have a squiz at Admiralscorner's YT videos. WSR seems to have most passengers originating at Bishops Lydeard rather than Minehead.

It's a terrific railway. Most enjoyable. I hope you have a good experience.

 

[Black Watch]

Isn’t Whitby the big income source though?

That is what NYMR insiders always say (even though, in practice, the NYMR is merely transporting passengers to a place, other than the heritage railway, where they can empty their wallets/purses).

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Have a squiz at Admiralscorner's YT videos. WSR seems to have most passengers originating at Bishops Lydeard rather than Minehead.

It's a terrific railway. Most enjoyable. I hope you have a good experience.

Thanks for the tip. We're staying on a farm near Wells, so we'll be approaching the WSR from the east.

Since COVID, we have visited several heritage lines (Bure Valley, Keighley & Worth Valley, Kent & East Sussex, Mid-Norfolk, North Norfolk, Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch, Severn Valley). Interested to see how the WSR compares.

 

[John Luxton]

Are there any preserved or heritage lines in Britain which are operated exclusively by paid staff?

Vale of Rheidol / Brecon Mountain - in addition to others mentioned. They don't seem to have any supporters association. There is also the Launceston Steam Railway - but that seems to be run more like a family business. I might also suggest Lappa Valley Railway - that is somewhat heritage as it runs on a former GWR trackbed and tries to fill both the family with young children entertainment market as well as pander to the enthusiast. i had a good day there in May and only my second ever visit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2025 ==

 

[Belperpete]

Also: the Dartmouth Steam Railway is not a heritage railway: it’s a stripped-down commercial excursion using steam locos & old carriages as its USP. It doesn’t carry a load of excess stock needing care and restoration, it isn’t a registered museum or environmental charity with curatorial and conservation responsibilities which it has to discharge in order to get grants, it no longer bothers with intermediate stations as they don’t contribute to the bottom line, and it doesn’t see itself as having any greater purpose than making a return for its shareholders. Of course it manages with fewer staff.

It preserves and runs heritage locos pulling heritage rolling stock along a heritage line with heritage stations - how is it possibly NOT a heritage railway?

Agreed that it doesn't have the financial benefits that accrue from being a charity or museum. And agreed that it is a commercial operation, but that does not mean that it can't also be a heritage railway. Does the taint of filthy lucre somehow disqualify it? All our heritage railways have to be run as commercial operations in one way or another or they won't survive.

Importantly, they concentrate on the stock needed to run their service. It isn't the linear scrap-yard of rusting stock that characterise many preserved lines. And unlike many preserved railways, they don't spread their resources thinly over multiple items of rolling stock all simultaneously under restoration, and then struggle to actually have anything runnable.

The DSR is at one end of the spectrum of heritage railways, with those that run entirely with volunteers at the other end. Most come somewhere in the middle, with varying mixes of paid and volunteer staff. Importantly, the DSR and other paid-staff-only lines provide a benchmark for how many paid staff you actually need to run a heritage railway. With volunteer assistance, you should surely be able to run with less paid staff. Or do more.

Point of information on paid staff numbers - unless you know whether the figures quoted are “full-time-equivalent” or actual discrete individuals then you can’t make any meaningful comparisons between the railways.

I realised this when I tried to find out how many paid staff the Isle of Man Railways have, and found them quoting "Fulltime Equivalent" numbers.

However, I then discovered the 2024 report that the Isle of Man government had produced. Basically, concerned about the amount of money being spent on funding the railways, they tasked independent consultants to do a review to see if the railways could be run more economically (e.g. by using volunteers, or by making cutbacks). A link to the pdf can be found here:

Report Examining Isle of Man Heritage Rail Network

This review included a comparison with a sample of other preserved railways. For example, it gives annual staffing costs:

Severn Valley	£3.14m
North Yorkshire	£2.21m
Bluebell	£1.71m
Watercress	£1.11m
Swanage	£1.08m
West Somerset	£0.94m
Kent and East Sussex	£0.59m
Llangollen	£0.43m
Keighley	£0.39m
Glouc Warwickshire	£0.23m
Welshpool	£0.19m

In previous posts, I have commented that saving a few jobs here and there wouldn't produce appreciable savings. However, I have to admit that I wasn't aware just how much some preserved railways were spending on paid staff. Notably, the SVR spending over £3 million, the NYMR and Bluebell spending around £2 million. Notably, the top three spenders were the railways that have made significant financial losses recently. It explains why the NYMR is pivoting back to using volunteers more.

The report also compares the staff costs as a proportion of total costs. These range from the KWVR, where staffing is just 21% of total costs, to the Welshpool where it is apparently 57%.

 

[nanstallon]

Point of information on paid staff numbers - unless you know whether the figures quoted are “full-time-equivalent” or actual discrete individuals then you can’t make any meaningful comparisons between the railways.

Also: the Dartmouth Steam Railway is not a heritage railway: it’s a stripped-down commercial excursion using steam locos & old carriages as its USP. It doesn’t carry a load of excess stock needing care and restoration, it isn’t a registered museum or environmental charity with curatorial and conservation responsibilities which it has to discharge in order to get grants, it no longer bothers with intermediate stations as they don’t contribute to the bottom line, and it doesn’t see itself as having any greater purpose than making a return for its shareholders. Of course it manages with fewer staff.

The Dartmouth Steam Railway is an efficient heritage railway! That is not a contradiction in terms.

 

[Krokodil]

It preserves and runs heritage locos pulling heritage rolling stock along a heritage line with heritage stations - how is it possibly NOT a heritage railway?

Same could be said of Northern Rail...

The Dartmouth Steam Railway is a tourist railway that just happens to employ steam trains as part of the attraction (so does Disneyland). There's no pretence at authenticity, the locos and carriages are all named - indeed quite a lot of the carriages are DMU trailers.

 

[Belperpete]

Same could be said of Northern Rail...

Ooh, what heritage locos does Northern have pulling their trains?

The Dartmouth Steam Railway is a tourist railway that just happens to employ steam trains as part of the attraction (so does Disneyland). There's no pretence at authenticity, the locos and carriages are all named - indeed quite a lot of the carriages are DMU trailers.

If using incongruous stock or giving stock inappropriate names or numbers or liveries or being a tourist attraction means that a line is not a "heritage railway", then I doubt that we have many heritage railways in the UK. Tell me, if the Bluebell is not a heritage railway, as it has committed all these sins, then what is it? I would hesitate to class it as a commercial enterprise with the current state of its finances.

Personally, if I can forgive the Bluebell for including a LNWR observation carr in their trains, and various lines for having pre grouping locos pulling Mk1s, I can forgive the DSR for including DMU trailers to increase the capacity of their trains.

I could suggest that a number of the lines that are currently making annual hundreds of thousands of pounds losses might learn something from the DSR about the efficient use of resources. However, the DSR has acquired a number of Mk1s to use in place of the trailers.

 

[NER1621]

Essentially then, the concept of a “heritage railway” or a “preserved railway” is now so loose and amorphous as to be almost useless. Let’s just call them what the Americans call them - “tourist railways”. Or even just “private railways.” (Is it because the British state in the 1960s and 1970s seemed to think that running a passenger railway was a job that only the state should normally do that we have such confused views about our private and third-sector railways?)

The thread title asks: “how viable are preserved railways?” Without defining terms the question is meaningless. Viable as what? Viable as a transport operation that covers both its running costs and costs of capital from commercial income? Viable as an entertainment operation that covers its costs ditto? Viable as a museum carrying out educative and conservation activities to recognised standards which covers its costs from a mix of income-generation plus grants to pay for non-commercial activities? Viable simply as a way of preserving a linear right of way for public access and/or keeping steam locomotives running? And any/all of the above with an emphasis on using volunteers as far as possible to cut labour costs without compromising safety and regulatory requirements?

The DSR and Snowdon Mountain Railway are one model. Turning the railway into a registered museum, Arts Council national portfolio holder and conservation charity is another (NYMR). You have to assess viability in terms that make sense of the individual private railway business model, not just in terms of “it’s got too many employees” or “it only runs Mk1s“.

 

[driverd]

And this emerging dialogue is the perfect synopsis of why letting enthusiasts run a preserved railway is a commercially challenging proposition.

So far as the public (and, I'll admit, even myself) are concerned, Dartmouth is a preserved railway and a success story at that. It runs steam trains, they pull old carriages, the staff wear quirky uniforms, the stations look very old worldy. It's also a gorgeous run and includes a boat ride, whats not to like?

Just because it doesn't have miles of carriage sheds/sidings (read scrap yards) obscuring the view, doesn't diminish its value at all.

 

[Trainlog]

I appreciate that a lot of people are impressed with the different economic model of the Paignton and Dartmouth railway to a heritage railway, and any successes with steam loco operation in this day and age should be celebrated. However, it's fair to say that the Paignton and Dartmouth model is not without its drawbacks as an experience.

Areas in which the Paignton and Dartmouth railway is good at

• The scenery was definitely impressive
• The gradient was excellent
• Footplate friendly
• There is something to do at either end
• They had a good cafe at Kingswear station

However, while there are the immediate benefits of seeing the line, the fact that it is not a heritage railway made the experience of travelling on the line feel a bit uncanny.

My gripes with the Paignton and Dartmouth

• I wasn't overly impressed with the strictness of the train's itinerary. No option of buying rover tickets, and they were insistent that I give them a time of when I will be returning to Paignton and a designated seat. It felt more like buying a railtour ticket than a typical heritage railway experience, which wouldn't be a bad thing if it weren't on a quiet Thursday afternoon in July. There should definitely be more flexibility on weekday tickets, and instead use stricter ones on weekends.
• Churston station. You weren't able to get out of the train and look around whilst the loco is in the passing loop - admittedly, yes, there isn't too much in the surrounding area of the station. The station was relatively featureless, no vintage adverts or posters, and it was strange to see a 'heritage' line with no operational semaphore signals.

I did the Paignton and Dartmouth as it was one of the last major heritage railways I haven't done in the Southwest yet (Bodmin is the last one left for me to do). So I think to conclude, if you want the best out of the experience, go into it with this in mind and enjoy the scenery and gradients; however, if you want more of the heritage railway experience with the flexibility, I would choose its neighbour, the South Devon railway, which is my favourite one in the Southwest.

 

[Krokodil]

Ooh, what heritage locos does Northern have pulling their trains?

Well, heritage units.

If using incongruous stock or giving stock inappropriate names or numbers or liveries or being a tourist attraction means that a line is not a "heritage railway", then I doubt that we have many heritage railways in the UK

The DSR does not pretend to be a heritage railway. Nor does the SMR (where I used to work in my youth, as it happens) or the Brecon Mountain.

Personally, if I can forgive the Bluebell for including a LNWR observation carr in their trains, and various lines for having pre grouping locos pulling Mk1s, I can forgive the DSR for including DMU trailers to increase the capacity of their trains.

It's not about "forgiveness", just about correctly categorising the various passenger-carrying railways which aren't registered as scheduled public transport.

The DSR exists to make money from tourists in the English Riviera, and clearly does well at it. For the enthusiast it provides the attraction of powerful locomotives hauling heavy trains up steep gradients. Fine. As far as I'm aware it doesn't maintain a museum like most "heritage" railways do (though the SMR has a small display of artefacts). The DSR's locomotives and rolling stock are chosen for their ability to get the job done, no maintaining 0-4-0 saddle tanks for use as loco dept pets.

Heritage railways on the other hand do not exist to make money. They must be able to sustain themselves of course, but the reason for existence is the key difference between a heritage railway and a tourist one.

The Vale of Rheidol is in a funny position, it's run by paid staff but there's a charitable trust in the picture who (for tax reasons) have now built an impressive museum. They can form a couple of different authentic heritage trains, but they also have acquired a powerful Garratt to haul heavier loads.

or “it only runs Mk1s“.

Nowt wrong with Mk1s, I'm at the East Lancs right now and the combination of a 24, Mk1s, and period buildings works very well. Bury Bolton Street's 1950s buildings are a very unusual feature these days. Hopefully in time we'll see the 504 back in passenger traffic, if hauled rather than under its own power.

 

[Belperpete]

The thread title asks: “how viable are preserved railways?” Without defining terms the question is meaningless. Viable as what? Viable as a transport operation that covers both its running costs and costs of capital from commercial income? Viable as an entertainment operation that covers its costs ditto? Viable as a museum carrying out educative and conservation activities to recognised standards which covers its costs from a mix of income-generation plus grants to pay for non-commercial activities? Viable simply as a way of preserving a linear right of way for public access and/or keeping steam locomotives running? And any/all of the above with an emphasis on using volunteers as far as possible to cut labour costs without compromising safety and regulatory requirements?

The DSR and Snowdon Mountain Railway are one model. Turning the railway into a registered museum, Arts Council national portfolio holder and conservation charity is another (NYMR). You have to assess viability in terms that make sense of the individual private railway business model, not just in terms of “it’s got too many employees” or “it only runs Mk1s“.

I was using the term viable to mean how likely are they to survive as heritage railways in their current form. Several of our major heritage railways have gone from being financially successful operations, to running annual losses of hundreds of thousands of pounds. They are clearly not viable in their current form in the long term. I raised the topic to try and get a sense of how widespread these problems might, or might not be. The impression I am getting is that most people don't have a clue about the financial state of the railways that they support.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2025 ==

Heritage railways on the other hand do not exist to make money. They must be able to sustain themselves of course, but the reason for existence is the key difference between a heritage railway and a tourist one.

The Vale of Rheidol is in a funny position, it's run by paid staff but there's a charitable trust in the picture who (for tax reasons) have now built an impressive museum. They can form a couple of different authentic heritage trains, but they also have acquired a powerful Garratt to haul heavier loads.

So you are saying that the VoR isn't a heritage railway?!

I agree that the DVR is a commercial concern, running a tourist attraction. And the tourist attraction that it runs is patently obviously a heritage railway, that uses heritage stock on a heritage line with heritage buildings. To try and claim that it isn't a heritage railway purely because it exists to make money is frankly ridiculous.

To define a heritage railway, not by the equipment it uses, but by whether or not it exists to make money, I find incomprehensible.

 

[Krokodil]

So you are saying that the VoR isn't a heritage railway?!

No, I'm saying that the VoR occupies a fuzzy middle ground.

To define a heritage railway, not by the equipment it uses, but by whether or not it exists to make money, I find incomprehensible.

Why does a given railway continue to exist? If it exists primarily to make money from tourists then it is a tourist railway. The preservation of historic rolling stock is a means to the money making end.

If on the other hand the railway exists because some enthusiasts wanted to (for example) rescue a Barry wreck and run it, then it is a heritage railway. It exists to preserve old equipment and the tourists are the means to the end of achieving that goal.

Establishing the goal of an organisation is an important consideration when applying for external funding.

 

[Notabene]

People have described the NYMR as a park and ride for Whitby. How is that so different from the WSR? Do they call that a park and ride for Minehead?
Dunster and Watchet are nice intermediate places to visit as are Goathland and, to a lesser extent, Grosmont.

 

[railfan99]

People have described the NYMR as a park and ride for Whitby. How is that so different from the WSR? Do they call that a park and ride for Minehead?
Dunster and Watchet are nice intermediate places to visit as are Goathland and, to a lesser extent, Grosmont.

I used Dunster station in 2023, walking to and from the eponymous Castle, a steep uphill walk for some of the way.

However far more WSR passengers alight (or join) at Watchet with its quaint shops and pleasant harbour. As you imply, Minehead is the #1 destination.