Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

[The Planner]

When was the last time the Settle and Carlisle line was used for a WCML diversion? I know it was used back in 2007 after the Grayrigg derailment but I don't recall any times since then.

I take it as well TPE have no plans to have divisions when the Penrith bridge closure happens?

2014

 

[800001]

Anyone know the reason for the test train stopping at Appleby today?

Platform validation testing was completed (measuring steps and doors etc).

And I must say, there must of been no one left at Avanti Head quarters, the amount of Avanti staff that got off the train.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Anyone know the reason for the test train stopping at Appleby today?

Platform validation testing was completed (measuring steps and doors etc).

AIUI since the rule about stopping trains in platforms in emergency situations came in, all new stock undergoing route clearance has to be checked for passenger calls at every platform it will pass through in case the train has to stop there out of course

 

[thealexweb]

When was the last time the Settle and Carlisle line was used for a WCML diversion? I know it was used back in 2007 after the Grayrigg derailment but I don't recall any times since then.

I take it as well TPE have no plans to have divisions when the Penrith bridge closure happens?

Nothing official but there was that 185 run up the S+C a few months ago. No reason was given at the time.

 

[DavidK]

Anyone know the reason for the test train stopping at Appleby today?

Platform validation testing was completed (measuring steps and doors etc).

And I must say, there must of been no one left at Avanti Head quarters, the amount of Avanti staff that got off the train.

Appleby to Penrith is only about 20 mins or so along the A66, could it be that they are going to use that stop and use some buses to get folk to/from Penrith?

 

[The Planner]

Appleby to Penrith is only about 20 mins or so along the A66, could it be that they are going to use that stop and use some buses to get folk to/from Penrith?

Not aware of that being in the plan.

 

[Class 170101]

Not aware of that being in the plan.

Perhaps not a planned basis but if things go wrong maybe its a contingency option?

 

[Starmill]

Alstom don't like it, it's mostly restricted to emergencies now.

It's incredibly unreliable as well. It's really not fit to use as a planned thing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==

I would have thought it will be quicker when the M6 is closed to go via the S&C, certainly less stressful worrying about whether you make your connection at either Carlisle or Preston.

You'll still have to change trains at Wigan and Carlisle, or Preston and Carlisle though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==

Unless it’s a mix of single and double sets.

You are looking at a maximum of a handful per day.

 

[Some guy]

Apparently planned. There’s going to be 4 days where Preston Station is going to be closed. So there will be trains direct from Wigan via westhoughton towards Bolton and then reverse towards Blackburn and onto Carlisle. With a reversal at Bolton this may mean the first time Avanti has served Bolton as a stop

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Apparently planned. There’s going to be 4 days where Preston Station is going to be closed. So there will be trains direct from Wigan via westhoughton towards Bolton and then reverse towards Blackburn and onto Carlisle. With a reversal at Bolton this may mean the first time Avanti has served Bolton as a stop

I'm surprised they're going via Hindley and Darwen, I would have expected going via Lostock Hall Jn to avoid a reversal.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Apparently planned. There’s going to be 4 days where Preston Station is going to be closed. So there will be trains direct from Wigan via westhoughton towards Bolton and then reverse towards Blackburn and onto Carlisle. With a reversal at Bolton this may mean the first time Avanti has served Bolton as a stop

I'm guessing this is over Christmas 2025/Beginning of 2026 or possibly Bank Holidays next year?

I guess Northern would have to reduce their frequency given it's already pushed at times as it is Mondays to Saturdays trains every half an hour in each direction between Blackburn and Bolton and vice versa and also single lines Blackburn-Darwen, Darwen-Bromley Cross and the small bit between Hall i'th Wood and Bolton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==

If ideas are being looked at for Carlisle southbound avoiding Preston, surely TPE could run pairs of 185s Carlisle-Settle-Blackburn-Darwen-Bolton-Manchester Airport. Or to reduce number of units required just shuttle between Carlisle and Blackburn and vice versa for connecting local services.

 

[Russel]

When can we expect a public timetable for these services in Jan?

Would love to do the S&C on an Avanti service.

 

[Carlisle]

TPE could run pairs of 185s Carlisle-Settle-Blackburn-Darwen-Bolton-Manchester Airport.

Even in the days when 185s were used regularly on the northern half of the WCML TPE never operated any planned diversions via the Settle or Dumfries routes, it always relied on Virgin or a replacement bus.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Posts on National Preservation say that the plan is for four services each way per day between Wigan/Preston and Carlisle using pairs of class 805s. There is an issue of them having insufficient fuel capacity to achieve that and fuel not being available nearby. Presumably refuelling at Kingmoor is not feasible?

 

[The Planner]

I'm surprised they're going via Hindley and Darwen, I would have expected going via Lostock Hall Jn to avoid a reversal.

They are going via Lostock.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==

When can we expect a public timetable for these services in Jan?

Would love to do the S&C on an Avanti service.

12 weeks out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==

I'm guessing this is over Christmas 2025/Beginning of 2026 or possibly Bank Holidays next year?

Preston is over new year.

 

[AndrewE]

Posts on National Preservation say that the plan is for four services each way per day between Wigan/Preston and Carlisle using pairs of class 805s. There is an issue of them having insufficient fuel capacity to achieve that and fuel not being available nearby. Presumably refuelling at Kingmoor is not feasible?

Oh dear! and we were told that Voyagers were shockingly fuel-inefficient...
Does anyone know what their mpg and fuel capacity is? It seems pretty poor if they can't stand in on diesel for a day. Now if there were to be 5 services then one could start and/or end up at Carlisle for refuelling at Kingmoor alternate days, maybe another could end up at Crewe or Wolves for fuelling at Oxley...

 

[voyagerdude220]

They are going via Lostock.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==


12 weeks out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==


Preston is over new year.

Thank you. Any ideas if the planned diversions via Darwen (or any diversions full stop) could potentially affect the normal Northern timetable?

 

[Rail Ranger]

They are going via Lostock.

The query was why they were not going via the Farington Junction to Lostock Hall Junction spur. Is that within the New Year possession?

 

[hexagon789]

Oh dear! and we were told that Voyagers were shockingly fuel-inefficient...
Does anyone know what their mpg and fuel capacity is? It seems pretty poor if they can't stand in on diesel for a day. Now if there were to be 5 services then one could start and/or end up at Carlisle for refuelling at Kingmoor alternate days, maybe another could end up at Crewe or Wolves for fuelling at Oxley...

1550L, of which 1450L is deemed usable for normal running.

For an 800 - consumption is about 1.6L per mile, so range is approx 900mi on diesel.

I don't see why an 805 would be greatly different.

 

[The Planner]

Thank you. Any ideas if the planned diversions via Darwen (or any diversions full stop) could potentially affect the normal Northern timetable?

None are going via Darwen. They will slot between existing services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==

The query was why they were not going via the Farington Junction to Lostock Hall Junction spur. Is that within the New Year possession?

They will go that way during the New Year possession. Wigan then turn right at Farington. When Preston is open then they go via Farington Curve.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Thanks.

 

[lrbvoyager]

tpe ran a 185 over settle and Carlisle earlier this year, maybe to do with a possible diversion
.

 

[800001]

tpe ran a 185 over settle and Carlisle earlier this year, maybe to do with a possible diversion
.

As far as I am aware TPE will not be doing diversions.
They will be operating either side of the line block using there 397s.

 

[td97]

They are going via Lostock.

The confusion here is Lostock Jn and Lostock Hall Jn are 2 entirely different locations.
It sounds like you are meaning Lostock Hall Jn.

 

[Starmill]

The confusion here is Lostock Jn and Lostock Hall Jn are 2 entirely different locations.
It sounds like you are meaning Lostock Hall Jn.

They aren't going via Darwen. There would be no reason to do so and it would be very awkward. On the days when Preston is closed they obviously can't go to or from there. So there's only one option left.

 

[800001]

They aren't going via Darwen. There would be no reason to do so and it would be very awkward. On the days when Preston is closed they obviously can't go to or from there. So there's only one option left.

Which is?

 

[Rail Ranger]

Planner has already explained this. When Preston is closed they will go from Wigan via Farington Junction-Lostock Hall Junction to Blackburn and on to Carlisle. When Preston is open they will go from Preston via Farington Curve Junction to Blackburn and on to Carlisle.

 

[The Planner]

tpe ran a 185 over settle and Carlisle earlier this year, maybe to do with a possible diversion
.

TPE are not diverting.

 

[Starmill]

Planner has already explained this. When Preston is closed they will go from Wigan via Farington Junction-Lostock Hall Junction to Blackburn and on to Carlisle. When Preston is open they will go from Preston via Farington Curve Junction to Blackburn and on to Carlisle.

Exactly.

 

[31160]

Do we know the dates for this yet? I know the timetable ain't out but the dates of the closure and the closure that also affects Preston station, thanks