Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

[A S Leib]

Would the relative lengths of Avanti and TPE rolling stock play a role? If it isn't feasible to divert 3tph between Preston and Blackburn on top of the normal 2tph, it would make sense to prioritise the services which are at least nine carriages over those which only have five.

 

[Efini92]

Would the relative lengths of Avanti and TPE rolling stock play a role? If it isn't feasible to divert 3tph between Preston and Blackburn on top of the normal 2tph, it would make sense to prioritise the services which are at least nine carriages over those which only have five.

The 805 are only 5 cars.

 

[A S Leib]

The 805 are only 5 cars.

I forgot that it wouldn't be 390s.

 

[The Planner]

The 805 are only 5 cars.

There will be double sets.

 

[lrbvoyager]

There will be double sets.

How do you know? I highly doubt they will have enough.

 

[Krokodil]

How do you know? I highly doubt they will have enough.

Because it would be idiotic not to use double sets. Presumably there will be shortforms between Chester and Euston to compensate.

 

[AJDesiro]

How do you know? I highly doubt they will have enough.

If the North Wales services get curtailed at Crewe, running Holyhead/Chester-Crewe only, my rough estimates suggest only around 4 805s would be needed, given that, when the service is curtailed, they generally only run the services that go as far as Holyhead.

 

[lrbvoyager]

If the North Wales services get curtailed at Crewe, running Holyhead/Chester-Crewe only, my rough estimates suggest only around 4 805s would be needed, given that, when the service is curtailed, they generally only run the services that go as far as Holyhead.

And how frequently do you think they will be running between Carlisle and preston?

 

[Krokodil]

And how frequently do you think they will be running between Carlisle and preston?

Well if they wanted to run double sets every hour then they would need 14 sets. Which they don't have. So it's not going to be that frequent.

 

[AJDesiro]

Well if they wanted to run double sets every hour then they would need 14 sets. Which they don't have. So it's not going to be that frequent.

Unless it’s a mix of single and double sets.

 

[800001]

And how frequently do you think they will be running between Carlisle and preston?

Just wait until fully Confirmed timetable is made Public, or create a thread in the speculative thread area.

We won't know until Avanti confirm there intentions, which except for these paths appearing, nothing else is really known, except to people within Avanti, who really won't be sharing much info on here.

 

[Efini92]

There will be double sets.

What’s going to be sacrificed for that to happen?

 

[Gwr12345]

Probably a daft question, but why can't 57s be used to haul 390s like they did? It must be still possible as evidenced by the recent charter to the greatest gathering

 

[800001]

What’s going to be sacrificed for that to happen?

As a few of us have suggested. Holyhead to London will most likely be cut back to a Holyhead to Crewe service.

With the freed up units then running on the diversion route.

That's my theory anyway.

 

[The Planner]

How do you know? I highly doubt they will have enough.

I know some of the people involved. They won't be hourly.

 

[Bald Rick]

For clarity, the (very limited) Avanti services via the S&C are not diversions of their normal servcie, they will be shuttles around the WCML block. For most journeys that normally involve using the Preston - Carlisle stretch , it will be quicker to go via the ECML or on the Rail Replacement.

 

[Efini92]

For clarity, the (very limited) Avanti services via the S&C are not diversions of their normal servcie, they will be shuttles around the WCML block. For most journeys that normally involve using the Preston - Carlisle stretch , it will be quicker to go via the ECML or on the Rail Replacement.

Seems pointless if the Rail replacement is quicker.

 

[800001]

Seems pointless if the Rail replacement is quicker.

Some people Don't like busses.
Some people have bikes etc.
So no, not pointless.

 

[Bald Rick]

Seems pointless if the Rail replacement is quicker.

Depends on the journey. Theres a capacity point too.

 

[JonathanH]

Seems pointless if the Rail replacement is quicker.

Diverting via Settle is essentially pointless in most cases, because, for most passengers, it is more appropriate to divert via the alternative existing services on the East Coast route.

Any rail shuttle is really just for relatively localised journeys given the time penalty. Some people will choose to defer their travel to another date.

 

[Class15]

Seems pointless if the Rail replacement is quicker.

Quite a few people seem to prefer taking trains, even if it takes longer…

 

[Krokodil]

Probably a daft question, but why can't 57s be used to haul 390s like they did? It must be still possible as evidenced by the recent charter to the greatest gathering

Alstom don't like it, it's mostly restricted to emergencies now.

 

[The Planner]

Seems pointless if the Rail replacement is quicker.

There isnt a maasive amount in it. It will be a nightmare at the weekends too when the M6 is shut.

 

[Some guy]

Some crew at Preston already sign 805/7 without the units needing to go anywhere near Scotland - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/different-driver-depot-route-and-traction-cards.205085/ - it would make sense for these crew to run any Wigan / Preston to Carlisle via Settle workings, meaning only route learning is needed, and not traction training.

All train managers at Preston currently sign 800s and the 2nd link drivers at Preston will also be trained on them so all staff based at Preston will be able to work them

 

[Class 170101]

There isnt a maasive amount in it. It will be a nightmare at the weekends too when the M6 is shut.

I would have thought it will be quicker when the M6 is closed to go via the S&C, certainly less stressful worrying about whether you make your connection at either Carlisle or Preston.

 

[800001]

I would have thought it will be quicker when the M6 is closed to go via the S&C, certainly less stressful worrying about whether you make your connection at either Carlisle or Preston.

I would say so.
Don't know which way buses will
Divert, but Penrith area on a normal day is crazy, let alone with diverted M6 traffic.

 

[godfreycomplex]

I would say so.
Don't know which way buses will
Divert, but Penrith area on a normal day is crazy, let alone with diverted M6 traffic.

This is why the diverts are running, if the M6 was open all the way, alas, they wouldn’t be

 

[Carlisle]

I would say so.
Don't know which way buses will Divert.

You’d have thought via the A6 to either the Shap motorway junction or continue to Kendal .

 

[thenorthern]

When was the last time the Settle and Carlisle line was used for a WCML diversion? I know it was used back in 2007 after the Grayrigg derailment but I don't recall any times since then.

I take it as well TPE have no plans to have divisions when the Penrith bridge closure happens?

 

[hexagon789]

When was the last time the Settle and Carlisle line was used for a WCML diversion? I know it was used back in 2007 after the Grayrigg derailment but I don't recall any times since then.

Annually until at least 2012 I think - typically in June. There was even an evening Edinburgh to Birmingham booked via the S&C on Saturdays as a route retainer IIRC around this time.