Closure of Bransty Tunnel (near Whitehaven) expected until further notice

[yorksrob]

It means doing the minimum to get it back going at the minimum cost in railway terms. Which this forum seems very quick to advocate in most cases.

Fair enough.

I still think the increased cost of sending engineers trains via Carnforth would be a lot less in value than the benefit of having a shorter blockade enabling Whitehaven to remain open.

 

[DarloRich]

Fair enough.

I still think the increased cost of sending engineers trains via Carnforth would be a lot less in value than the benefit of having a shorter blockade enabling Whitehaven to remain open.

I doubt that very much! would you not just run from Crewe and save all the faffing about?

 

[OhNoAPacer]

that is an IT centric definition. What is meant here is: what is the minimal amount of work and therefore money required to safely fix the problem and open the line.

You are going to see a lot more of this as funding challenges increase over the life of this parliament

Does it also potentially mean having a doing this will keep things going for a few years as opposed to a proper, more costly, solution that would last 50, 100 or whatever years.

 

[DarloRich]

Does it also potentially mean having a doing this will keep things going for a few years as opposed to a proper, more costly, solution that would last 50, 100 or whatever years.

Potentially, yes.

 

[yorksrob]

that is an IT centric definition. What is meant here is: what is the minimal amount of work and therefore money required to safely fix the problem and open the line.

You are going to see a lot more of this as funding challenges increase over the life of this parliament

I'd assumed the term was more about manufacturing, but every day's a learning day.

However, as far as the railway's concerned I would have thought that "safely fix the problem and open the line" encompasses having as much of the line safely open as soon as possible.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I am still struggling to understand why they can't just clip the points so that all traffic has to go into the bay. On the odd occasion an engineers train is needed, expand the possession then unclip them under that possession. At this stage it's just going to be a lot of people standing around scratching their heads.

At least Whitehaven will get 80%-90% of a train service, instead of the 0% it is currently getting.

 

[DarloRich]

However, as far as the railway's concerned I would assume that "safely fix the problem and open the line" encompasses having as much of the line safely open as soon as possible.

a yes, but!

Yes - but that's operations problem not investment I don't know enough about the area to understand why something cant be worked out to serve Whitehaven as a terminus. I am surprised the local politicos haven't made a bigger fuss.

 

[yorksrob]

I doubt that very much! would you not just run from Crewe and save all the faffing about?

If they can come from Crewe, doesn't that make it easier to serve the blockade from the South anyway !

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a yes, but!

Yes - but that's operations problem not investment I don't know enough about the area to understand why something cant be worked out to serve Whitehaven as a terminus. I am surprised the local politicos haven't made a bigger fuss.

There's an element of speculation anyway - perhaps they might for the longer blockade.

 

[DarloRich]

If they can come from Crewe, doesn't that make it easier to serve the blockade from the South anyway !

yeeeeeeeeeees. my geography might have gone a bit wrong there! Carlisle would be easier, obviously, but engineering trains run some funny routes at times.

 

[yorksrob]

yeeeeeeeeeees. my geography might have gone a bit wrong there!

Either way, there's gonna be a replacement bus

 

[OhNoAPacer]

a yes, but!

Yes - but that's operations problem not investment I don't know enough about the area to understand why something cant be worked out to serve Whitehaven as a terminus. I am surprised the local politicos haven't made a bigger fuss.

The local politicos probably don't yet realise the full seriousness of the issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

that is an IT centric definition. What is meant here is: what is the minimal amount of work and therefore money required to safely fix the problem and open the line.

You are going to see a lot more of this as funding challenges increase over the life of this parliament

Though equally the Conwy Valley has proven that sometimes spending a bit more saves more in the long term.

Before the stones were dumped on the section on the Conwy flood plain: lengthy closure at least once every 2 years, sometimes more often
After: only one closure that I can recall and it was only a short one

 

[froggy9]

Orange streams are/were common in mining areas when there was uron in the coal seams, They abound in the Wigan area. One was even called "Yellow Brook"

 

[Straus]

Orange streams are/were common in mining areas when there was uron in the coal seams, They abound in the Wigan area. One was even called "Yellow Brook"

I don't think there's any question on the source being "a mine", it's more along the lines of what change happened in 2021/22 to cause the ochre to enter the tunnel/harbour when it didn't previously. The mine workings are likely in excess of 100 years old.

 

[Lucy1501]

I am still struggling to understand why they can't just clip the points so that all traffic has to go into the bay. On the odd occasion an engineers train is needed, expand the possession then unclip them under that possession. At this stage it's just going to be a lot of people standing around scratching their heads.

The local maintenance depot and all staff are at the Whitehaven end of the tunnel. The storage yard is also there, and reasonably easy access for larger equipment.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Grout then Gunnite will probably be the solution.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The local maintenance depot and all staff are at the Whitehaven end of the tunnel. The storage yard is also there, and reasonably easy access for larger equipment.

Yes, I know that.

My point is that there isn't going to be a regular need for engineering trains to go into the through platform or the tunnel for ages yet. It's going to be a lot of engineers standing around with worried expressions, working out how to fix the mess. Indeed, the finding of the initial survey was that the situation was so bad that it isn't currently safe for heavy plant to enter the tunnel.

So it doesn't matter if the points are clipped to prevent access to the through platform, as there won't be anything needing access to the through platform.

 

[InOban]

I don't think there's any question on the source being "a mine", it's more along the lines of what change happened in 2021/22 to cause the ochre to enter the tunnel/harbour when it didn't previously. The mine workings are likely in excess of 100 years old.

What I was suggesting in a previous post was that, ever since mining ceased and the pumps were switched off, the workings have been gradually filling up with that lovely Lake District rain, until it has finally broken through into the tunnel above. Or that the previous drainage route has somehow been blocked with the same result.

 

[themiller]

Where is the access point for the works in the tunnel? Google isn't the clearest but I can't see a way of accessing into the tunnel from the North end without shutting the station, Nearest access at the south end looks to be south of Corkickle Station.

There’s an existing road access point to one side of the railway behind the Tesco filling station with the other side served from the road past the other side of the Tesco car park. At the Corkickle end of the tunnel, there’s a limit to the size of road vehicles due to the proximity of housing. I would expect that the majority of materials would be delivered in advance by rail to the NR area at the north end of the tunnel with track being stockpiled at Parton station yard. At the south end, there’s plenty of ‘laydown area’ where the old sidings have been lifted but quite a bit of site preparation would be needed to clear saplings. A complicating factor in all of this is the Sellafield snake which is the queue of traffic heading into Sellafield at inmuster and out at going home time. It happens several times a day to accommodate shift workers and day workers with contractors times being offset from the staff. The absence of trains to and from the north will create extra road traffic.
Don’t forget that the track will need to be removed from the tunnel at both ends in order to get road vehicles in so at least half of the platforms will be rail less. Add in the congested nature of the areas around the ends of the tunnel and it’ll be a logistical headache for planners.

 

[yorksrob]

Is this the reason for the numerous cancellations between the coast and Millom tomorrow ?

 

[ScottGallagher]

Is this the reason for the numerous cancellations between the coast and Millom tomorrow ?

Just looked at Journey check ,it's pretty grim isn't it coupled with the usual summer holidays cancellations , doesn't bode well for my journey next week

 

[yorksrob]

Just looked at Journey check ,it's pretty grim isn't it coupled with the usual summer holidays cancellations , doesn't bode well for my journey next week

Eee hopefully something will have sorted itself out by then !

 

[Starmill]

If its deemed that is too close to the worksite then it won't happen. Clearly Northern were content with the proposal, and they are one of the TOCs that quite happily go to the point of obstruction compared to others.

What proposal is this?

The line isn't shut at Whitehaven and isn't going to be.

From 11 August 2025​

Services between Sellafield and Whitehaven will be replaced by buses (Braystones and Nethertown will not be served at all).

Carlisle to Barrow service disruptions - Bransty tunnel closure

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Maybe people on both sides of these debates ought to have a slightly clearer idea of what's actually happening before sounding off on it...

 

[The Planner]

What proposal is this?

The line isn't shut at Whitehaven and isn't going to be.

Carlisle to Barrow service disruptions - Bransty tunnel closure

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Maybe people on both sides of these debates ought to have a slightly clearer idea of what's actually happening before sounding off on it...

The tunnel work would have been consulted with Northern beforehand and the limits of it.

 

[Starmill]

I wonder if it's just for now because that works best with the unit and crew diagrams?

The unit and crew diagrams are going to be for going through the tunnel. It's currently just going to be whatever control can throw together with the assistance of the local management. This isn't planned engineering work.

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The tunnel work would have been consulted with Northern beforehand and the limits of it.

Correct. However this isn't planned engineering.

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Northern JourneyCheck is now advising that disruption is expected until November.

At a guess, I'd say that's probably because the controller has to select something as the end date in order to have the incident on journcheck show up correctly.

 

[The Planner]

The unit and crew diagrams are going to be for going through the tunnel. It's currently just going to be whatever control can throw together with the assistance of the local management. This isn't planned engineering work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2025 ==


Correct. However this isn't planned engineering.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2025 ==


At a guess, I'd say that's probably because the controller has to select something as the end date in order to have the incident on journcheck show up correctly.

It will be after the initial restriction of use. It will appear in the WON as any normal possession would.

 

[Starmill]

It will be after the initial restriction of use. It will appear in the WON as any normal possession would.

Indeed it will. But that won't reflect what was agreed during the blockade last weekend / in September.

 

[Pinus contorta]

How do the units at Workinton get fuelled and so forth? I guess there is some contingency being worked out of how the units are cycled through exams from now on.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The line isn't shut at Whitehaven and isn't going to be.

The link you posted clearly shows that the RRBs are operating Workington to Sellafield?

It looks like the RRBs are- sensibly- changing from 11 August, so clearly whatever the possession issue is has been resolved. Good.

 

[Starmill]

The link you posted clearly shows that the RRBs are operating Workington to Sellafield?

It looks like the RRBs are- sensibly- changing from 11 August, so clearly whatever the possession issue is has been resolved. Good.

There isn't an issue with the possession though, that's exactly what I was trying to say. Whitehaven, Corkicle, St Bees etc were under possession last weekend into this week. But they're not any more.

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How do the units at Workinton get fuelled and so forth? I guess there is some contingency being worked out of how the units are cycled through exams from now on.

I think the sidings at Barrow have fuelling facilities if that's what you mean?