Almost got trapped inside Leamington Spa station for the night

[TUC]

There have been sufficient incidents of this nature that surely the industry should recognise there is a need for clear processes and expectations on actions to be taken in such circumstances.

 

[Horizon22]

Unless the RAIB get involved there’s zero chance of that happening.

I don't mean officially like a near miss like a driver has, but essentially this could have been worse but was avoided due to good fortune more than anything else.

 

[GordonT]

Would the on-call TOC manager receiving a call at say 0130hrs to open a prematurely locked station out of say 60 stations in his/her patch have the means to attend quickly with the necessary key(s) to accomplish his/her quest?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Yeah, it feels like a bit of a cop-out answer really. Nobody is expecting to get detailed information about e.g. disciplinary processes or about individual employees from a customer service rep, that'd be grossly inappropriate. But what is important is exactly what you refer to: how a re-occurence is going to be prevented, ideally with a process that isn't reliant on one single member of staff.

Agreed. I mean, theoretically, it could be that it turns out they can't tell you the details of any outcome (for example, if it turns out that their existing procedures were fine except that someone didn't follow those procedures, and explaining in what way that didn't happen would make it easy to identify the member of staff involved). but even then, you'd expect some kind of acknowledgement when they have completed their investigation, along with any relevant information about any portion of the result of that investigation that can be put in the public domain.

 

[TUC]

Agreed. I mean, theoretically, it could be that it turns out they can't tell you the details of any outcome (for example, if it turns out that their existing procedures were fine except that someone didn't follow those procedures, and explaining in what way that didn't happen would make it easy to identify the member of staff involved). but even then, you'd expect some kind of acknowledgement when they have completed their investigation, along with any relevant information about any portion of the result of that investigation that can be put in the public domain.

The implication of that is not that there a process needing creating for such incidents, but rather than one already exists. If so, the question is what that process is?

 

[12LDA28C]

Would the on-call TOC manager receiving a call at say 0130hrs to open a prematurely locked station out of say 60 stations in his/her patch have the means to attend quickly with the necessary key(s) to accomplish his/her quest?

Surely that would depend entirely on how far from the particular station the on-call Manager lived and where the keys were located.

 

[sh24]

I don't mean officially like a near miss like a driver has, but essentially this could have been worse but was avoided due to good fortune more than anything else.

Agree. Whoever holds H&S responsibility for Leamington Spa station should really be treating this as a near miss. A medical issue with no contractors might not have ended well. Near miss reporting and investigation is really important to mitigate potential risk.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Would the on-call TOC manager receiving a call at say 0130hrs to open a prematurely locked station out of say 60 stations in his/her patch have the means to attend quickly with the necessary key(s) to accomplish his/her quest?

The great majority of stations are surely unstaffed or have a ‘side gate’ for use after staff have gone home (typically limited-hour booking offices). Whilst some clearly are secured (e.g. island platforms on a viaduct or embankment in a town, such as Rochdale) how many of those would be on any one ‘on call’ patch?

 

[Broucek]

You mean 101.

I phoned 101 today about a dangerous but not incredibly dangerous driver. Gave up after 10 Minutes...

 

[etr221]

Would the on-call TOC manager receiving a call at say 0130hrs to open a prematurely locked station out of say 60 stations in his/her patch have the means to attend quickly with the necessary key(s) to accomplish his/her quest?

The great majority of stations are surely unstaffed or have a ‘side gate’ for use after staff have gone home (typically limited-hour booking offices). Whilst some clearly are secured (e.g. island platforms on a viaduct or embankment in a town, such as Rochdale) how many of those would be on any one ‘on call’ patch?

My thinking is that stations are - at least to some extent - places where Network Rail staff/contractors would access the line in emergency, and as such I would have some expectation that their local on call people (MOMs?) would have keys/whatever to get in, to platforms if not buildings, sufficient for them to be able to get trapped passengers out.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Perhaps it’s a London/former NSE region thing, but most suburban stations in London have an exit that’s left permanently open during the hours when the ticket office is unstaffed. Usually a gate that allows entry or exit not via the ticket office which, along with toilets and waiting rooms, is locked when the staff leave. It’s hard to see why that isn’t more universally adopted.
..........

Now I know why all the brickwork in London is riddled with tags !. I always wonder how these vandals get onto so much of the network. They must just, overnight, work their way from one station to the next.

I'll assume you're trolling at this stage.

Really ?.
TBH I would try 101 first if its minor and then resort to 999 if no reply fairly soon. How soon depends on how urgent it is.
BUT I can understand people just using 999 every time once they have learnt 101 gets them no reply, sort of defeats the point of 101 unfortunately as it descends to the 999 call handlers being the filter.

In this type of situation just text 61016. It goes straight into BTP’s control room which is manned 24/7. They have direct contacts into Network Rail and TOC controls, as well as the ability to despatch officers who have copies of most relevant access keys required for the railway.

Trouble is I have had occasion to use 61016 twice and on both occasions the mobile/network said "Sending Failed" I tried re sending repeatedly on one occasion hoping for better coverage. So now I ignore that advice.

Not particularly. You set up a push bar “fire-exit” style exit to egress from the inside. Okay a little bit of cost as it will need to be alarmed so that it can be closed again to prevent said anti-social behaviour but these are thankfully quite rare occurrences.

This is what I would expect at most stations with a side gate. An egress only option seems foolproof.

I am led to understand (but never tried it) that the American 911 also works.

Indeed I have remembered to try both 911 and also 112 when I had a genuine need, both work.

Assuming that all the passengers could fit on the 2307, it seems odd that you weren't all transferred on to that train with your train being terminated at Banbury and eventually running forward empty.

This is what makes me think there was an an unusual breakdown in organisation on that night. No one to organise getting passenger moved to the 23:07 and then (the same) no one to get Leamington closed late.

I don't mean officially like a near miss like a driver has, but essentially this could have been worse but was avoided due to good fortune more than anything else.

This whole thing might be a non event. It occurs to me that the staff in Hi-Vis might have been carriage cleaners etc. It might be the case that control knew there would be some one there - not very reassuring for the person on the night though.

As I hold help points in low regard (due to experience) I cannot be bothered with them.
I wonder if a call from the nearest signal post phone could be useful (without wandering all over the tracks).

In terms of a standard procedure for worrying about delayed trains.
How about all signallers having a responsibility to alert control if they have an out of course train in their control ?.
Or could staff on the train not express a concern/reminder to control ?.
Maybe ends up as too many cooks overloading control ?.

 

[Vectorspace]

It occurs to me that the staff in Hi-Vis might have been carriage cleaners etc. It might be the case that control knew there would be some one there - not very reassuring for the person on the night though.

If they were carriage cleaners, then the odds of them being on the platform to see us as opposed to in a carriage out of sight would have been low (though we probably would have found them if they hadn't found us). And they weren't told to look out for us, the one I spoke to was clear that they weren't expecting us.
All the time we were held at Banbury, every announcement assured us that the plan was for the train to get at least as far as Leamington.

 

[43066]

I would still expect them to say what procedures or measures they've taken to prevent a repeat occurrence.

I can only assume you don’t have much experience of writing complaints to organisations, because invariably all you’ll get is a boilerplate response, like that sent to the OP. The railway is no different to other industries in this respect.

What concern could there possibly be about a TOC publishing the procedure they use to avoid passengers from becoming stranded?

You can’t see any reason why publishing details of access arrangements at a particular location could cause a security issue? Ultimately internal processes of this nature are not for general consumption, and it’s odd that anyone imagines they should be “published”.

I'm afraid this seems to be just another case where you are trying to excuse the inexcusable because in your view, the railway can do no wrong...

You’ll have to point me to where I’ve said “the railway can do no wrong”. It sounds suspiciously like a strawman.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2025 ==

If they were carriage cleaners, then the odds of them being on the platform to see us as opposed to in a carriage out of sight would have been low (though we probably would have found them if they hadn't found us). And they weren't told to look out for us, the one I spoke to was clear that they weren't expecting us.
All the time we were held at Banbury, every announcement assured us that the plan was for the train to get at least as far as Leamington.

Were they wearing orange?

 

[TUC]

You can’t see any reason why publishing details of access arrangements at a particular location could cause a security issue? Ultimately internal processes of this nature are not for general consumption, and it’s odd that anyone imagines they should be “published”.

How is publicising ways for passengers to exit a station, or what processes will ensure they are not locked in, a security issue? That's customer care. It also makes TOCs accountable, in that passengers can then say. 'you're supposed to do x. Why didn't you?'

 

[fairlie]

There's a pathway down through the garden at the London end of platform 2 - I've seen people using it during the day (I assume evading fares). If I were stranded and there were no staff around, I think that would be my first port of call.

 

[Vectorspace]

Were they wearing orange?

Yes, they were in orange high-vis. One was full orange jacket and trousers. The other vest, trousers, and I think some.kind of torso harness

 

[Bikeman78]

I phoned 101 today about a dangerous but not incredibly dangerous driver. Gave up after 10 Minutes...

I have only called it once. My recollection is having to navigate several menus and it took a few minutes to reach an actual person. A tedious experience.

 

[Dave_D]

Does anyone know what the legal position would be if the passengers tried to break out and caused some damage?

 

[12LDA28C]

Does anyone know what the legal position would be if the passengers tried to break out and caused some damage?

I'm not sure that passengers would need to 'break out' - they are not within a station building and so to 'escape' the station they would simply need to climb over a fence or similar.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'm not sure that passengers would need to 'break out' - they are not within a station building and so to 'escape' the station they would simply need to climb over a fence or similar.

I am not sure I am agile enough to do that anymore. But i would possibly be tempted to try. What would my subsequent injuries be attributed to compensation wise ?.

 

[Dave_D]

I'm not sure that passengers would need to 'break out' - they are not within a station building and so to 'escape' the station they would simply need to climb over a fence or similar.

If there is no damage -no problem, my question was referring to a scenario where a passenger could only leave by damaging-say a locked door.

On another element regarding 999 IIRC this situation occurred at, I believe Oxenholme, the danger there was that the underpass was locked out of use and passengers might have crossed the track to get out.

Personally I would call this an emergency as people would be in danger unless the signals were changed.

 

[etr221]

A couple of thoughts:

• Were I in this situation, walking down the track to find a place where I could get off the railway, or just a signal post telephone to raise alarm, is certainly something I might do.
• Do Station Operators produce 'risk assessments' covering this (trapped passengers) and other, similar, situations? Are they, or should they be, required to? Should these be publicly available (at least to some extent)?

 

[renegademaster]

I'm not sure that passengers would need to 'break out' - they are not within a station building and so to 'escape' the station they would simply need to climb over a fence or similar.

If the most obvious exit is set of doors into the building and then set out, that might end up being what they'll do

 

[Peter Sarf]

If the most obvious exit is set of doors into the building and then set out, that might end up being what they'll do

That would be my thought if the doors into+through the building are easier to defeat than a gate. A last resort I hope but still an option maybe preferable to wandering down the tracks. Even if the doors exiting the building were impregnable I might have hopefully triggered an alarm.

 

[12LDA28C]

If the most obvious exit is set of doors into the building and then set out, that might end up being what they'll do

It would be an odd situation if the most obvious route of exit is to break into a building. I'm pretty sure that at Leamington, for example, there is a side gate off the Down side platform which leads to a staff car park. No need to break into a building and then out again.

 

[Adam Williams]

I'm pretty sure that at Leamington, for example, there is a side gate off the Down side platform which leads to a staff car park. No need to break into a building and then out again.

If I remember correctly that's a reasonably high gate, I suspect you'd be better off going through the garden than trying to clamber over that.

 

[Vectorspace]

That gate is where the workmen let us out, as they didn't have keys to the main entrance

 

[cool110]

It would be an odd situation if the most obvious route of exit is to break into a building.

If climbing is out, then what's easer. Forcing a locked metal gate open, or smashing through some glass?

 

[MadMac]

I am not sure I am agile enough to do that anymore. But i would possibly be tempted to try. What would my subsequent injuries be attributed to compensation wise ?.

There was a case a long time ago where someone turned up for the first train of the day - I think it was at Yoker - and found the place locked up. He climbed over a fence, fall and was injured. I believe he successfully sued BR.

 

[styles]

Would the on-call TOC manager receiving a call at say 0130hrs to open a prematurely locked station out of say 60 stations in his/her patch have the means to attend quickly with the necessary key(s) to accomplish his/her quest?

Well I was stuck at a station in Wales where even when I (accidentally) pressed the emergency button, nobody answered.

So I think we have a bit of a way to go before we have a designated TOC contact 24/7.