-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Heathrow Airport, no longer in zone 6?
- Thread starter thomasheywood
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Which in turn results in a single from Heathrow to zone 1 at off peak times being charged at the Railcard cap.
TravellingTyke
Member
...and on the Shenfield branch, to a certain degree. The single off peak contactless fare from Whitechapel to Gidea Park is £2.80 on the Elizabeth line. To take the District line to Hornchurch (same start and end zones) would cost only £2.10.
I remonstrated to my MP about this (admittedly before the last general election) and apparently it was down to an agreement that the DfT made to protect Abellio Greater Anglia's revenue from Romford when the Elizabeth line started.
It flies in the face of the benefits of a zonal fare system when the cost of the fare varies depending on whether the bit of zone 6 you live in is closer to an Underground or an Elizabeth line station, but they're the cards we've been dealt.
There are anomalies everywhere when you look for them. Of course there's always a degree of arbitrariness in where to draw the zonal boundaries but it always strikes me as somewhat anomalous that there are parts of Essex in zone 4 (Grange Hill, Chigwell) when actual London boroughs (like Havering) are in zone 6.
I've got a Network Railcard which doesn't work with Oyster. I got a £10.50 paper ticket, from Heathrow Terminals 2 & 3 to my tube station in zone 2, changing at Paddington. TfL's fare finder doesn't have this: it has 13.90 or 9.20 (off peak).
As I can't get the 9.20 price with the Network Railcard, then the paper ticket seems the best option at 10.50 so I save 3.40. Am I understanding this right? TfL's fare finder doesn't mention this with seems like an oversight.
As I can't get the 9.20 price with the Network Railcard, then the paper ticket seems the best option at 10.50 so I save 3.40. Am I understanding this right? TfL's fare finder doesn't mention this with seems like an oversight.
What journeys are you making?
This one was single from Heathrow Terminals 2 and 3 to my zone 2 station. I'm normally travelling around London with trips outside every few weeks.
The ticket I got is 'Heathrow Rail to London Underground Zones 1-6'.
£10.50 is the fare for a paper off-peak ticket from 3081 Heathrow Rail to 0786 Zone U1256 Londn, with a Railcard discount. For a Network Railcard, this fare is only valid on weekends and bank holidays. On weekdays after 1000 the fare should be £13, and before 1000 it's not valid at all. The fare without a Railcard would be £15.80.
I'm aware some TfL* POMs** do not apply the £13 minimum fare correctly. I do not expect you will have difficulty using the £10.50 ticket on weekdays on TfL services, even though it's not intended to be valid, but if your journey were to include other non-TfL National Rail services, then you could encounter difficulty.
The fares the TfL fare finder has shown you are Oyster fares, but I expect the site isn't clever enough to note that a Network Railcard cannot be attached to an Oyster card. £13.90 is the full fare for Oyster/contactless. If you did have a Railcard that could be attached to an Oyster card, the reduced fare would be £9.20 off-peak.
It may be possible to reduce your costs further by changing short of Paddington, such as at Ealing Broadway, and avoiding zone 1. You've not mentioned your zone 2 destination station, but if you were to do so we might be able to suggest options.
*In this post I am using the term "TfL" widely and it should be read as encompassing TfL as well as all its franchises and subsidiaries, not just the central body.
**POM stands for Passenger Operated Machine and is the term TfL uses to refer to ticket vending machines.
I'm aware some TfL* POMs** do not apply the £13 minimum fare correctly. I do not expect you will have difficulty using the £10.50 ticket on weekdays on TfL services, even though it's not intended to be valid, but if your journey were to include other non-TfL National Rail services, then you could encounter difficulty.
The fares the TfL fare finder has shown you are Oyster fares, but I expect the site isn't clever enough to note that a Network Railcard cannot be attached to an Oyster card. £13.90 is the full fare for Oyster/contactless. If you did have a Railcard that could be attached to an Oyster card, the reduced fare would be £9.20 off-peak.
It may be possible to reduce your costs further by changing short of Paddington, such as at Ealing Broadway, and avoiding zone 1. You've not mentioned your zone 2 destination station, but if you were to do so we might be able to suggest options.
*In this post I am using the term "TfL" widely and it should be read as encompassing TfL as well as all its franchises and subsidiaries, not just the central body.
**POM stands for Passenger Operated Machine and is the term TfL uses to refer to ticket vending machines.
Does this also apply to the Piccadilly Line, or are the Heathrow Tube stations still in zone 6 both for Travelcards and for pay-as-you-go?
It's in Zone 6.
However if you travel between Zone 1 and Heathrow, it's charged at peak rate, even if you travel off peak. You can easily circumvent this by "splitting" (tapping out and immediately back in again) at Hatton Cross.
Unless you continue onto a “red” National Rail route putting you on the mixed-mode fare scale, in which case off-peak fares apply once again
Thanks for the detailed reply. I was travelling on Sunday. I got the ticket from Uber trains so also had the 5% offer. Thing is, TfL's fare finder doesn't give he paper option for the journey which I feel it should if it's cheaper than contactless.
Destination station is Kensal Green.
TfL wants shot of paper tickets so it doesn't promote them.
You can change at Ealing Broadway (level) to the Central line then Shepherds Bush (out of station and across the road) to the Overground then Willesden Junction (accessible) to the Bakerloo line or Overground to Kensal Green, with the full fare coming in at £8.80/£7.60 peak/off-peak by Oyster/contactless. You may need to touch pink Oyster readers at Ealing Bdy and Willesden Jct. The paper tickets equivalent (to 0829 ZONE U2356 LONDN) is £11.80 undiscounted, and £7.85 with a Network Railcard discount on weekends only.
It is up to yourself whether you feel the extra changes merit the savings.
The Piccadilly line stations are also in Zone 6, so Travelcards which cover Zone 6 are accepted - the same as the Elizabeth line.
There are also no PAYG oremium fares like with the Elizabeth line. The only difference is that peak fares are charged at all times if travelling to, from or via Zone 1 (although Railcard holders still get 1/3 off this all-day peak fare if touching in at off-peak times).
The all-day peak fare can be avoided by splitting at any intermediate station before Zone 1. Splitting at Hatton Cross makes the journey cheaper than before these changes were implemented, as you don't pay anything for the Heathrow <-> Hatton Cross journey (it's seemingly considered equivalent to the free inter terminal transfer?), and Hatton Cross is in Zone 5 so you pay for one less Zone on the way to/from London.
You may as well take the Piccadilly line from Heathrow, thus saving yourself a huge amount, if you are prepared to take such a long-winded route. Changing at Earl's Court and West Brompton will result in a fare of just £2.40/£3.60.
As I understand it, Heathrow has to ensure there is some way of getting between terminals 2 and 3 and the 'rest of the country' at no cost – there is no pedestrian route out of terminals 2 and 3 which sit between the Heathrow runways, and vehicular access is via tunnels from which pedestrians are prohibited. There used to be the Heathrow free bus zone but that was killed off some years ago, and it appears the free trips to/from Hatton Cross replaced it.
Unless your journey continues to a "red" National Rail route on the mixed mode scale, in which case off-peak becomes available again.
redreni
Established Member
I agree. Although, making too much fuss about this might not get the result we want, because from TfL's and the TOCs' point of view the problem isn't that PAYG fares are too high, it's that these other pesky fares are too low.
So the solution that suggests itself to us (don't let them promote PAYG as if it's always the cheapest option when it's often more expensive than buying a ticket) may not be what springs to mind for them.
I'm pretty much resigned to just accepting that most people are going to just use PAYG without paying the slightest attention to what the fares actually are. Realising this, the transport operators will succumb to the temptation to rip them off to a certain extent since they're not price-sensitive (they can't be, given they generally don't know the price when they make decisions about when and where to travel or, indeed, when they pay). Consequently there's a cross-subsidy from those who choose not to invest the time in trying to find out what the fares are and in paying the cheapest fare (possibly rightly, given how complex it is and how much time it takes), to those who do.
Regarding the £10.50 paper ticket with the Network Railcard: when I was last at T5 the Elizabeth Line ticket vending machines there would not sell that ticket. Similarly priced fares undercutting PAYG (for Network Railcard holders) are also available to many National Rail stations in zones 1-6 that require a cross-London transfer, and the machines at T5 wouldn't sell that ticket to me either when last I tried. It may be that this has been addressed since as it was nearly a year ago.
It's possible to buy it online for collection at a TVM, of course.
- Status