Wigan-Bolton services after electrification?

[darylyates17]

Am I right in thinking the Southport services will go via Atherton instead of Bolton once the timetables change?

 

[GhostManDN91]

Am I right in thinking the Southport services will go via Atherton instead of Bolton once the timetables change?

From what I've heard it might be a Blackburn and Manchester Oxford Road to Southport via Atherton from May timetable change but I'm not sure of the official plans though.

 

[cle]

What is the long term plan for the line, just the 2tph Wigan NW - Stalybridge EMU?

Or could more tph turn at Wigan, or something run onwards towards Preston also?

 

[childwallblues]

What is the long term plan for the line, just the 2tph Wigan NW - Stalybridge EMU?

Or could more tph turn at Wigan, or something run onwards towards Preston also?

Northern currently can't even run two trains per hour Liverpool -Newton-le-Willows without having to find additional staff to run an additional service north of Wigan.

 

[GhostManDN91]

Will confuse alot of passengers at Wigan when all the Bolton trains switch to North Western I'll imagine.

 

[DAL1189]

From what I've heard it might be a Blackburn and Manchester Oxford Road to Southport via Atherton from May timetable change but I'm not sure of the official plans though.

Walkden is my local station and I was just checking Real Time Trains to see what was passing by this time of night and lo and behold - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G33437/2025-01-03#allox_id=0

Don't know if this is a regular service but this train apparently is running all the way to Southport!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Walkden is my local station and I was just checking Real Time Trains to see what was passing by this time of night and lo and behold - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G33437/2025-01-03#allox_id=0

Don't know if this is a regular service but this train apparently is running all the way to Southport!

That runs on Friday and Saturdays only, as all other days have rail replacements that late in the evening.

 

[Gricer99]

It would make sense to run Southport and Kirkby services to Manchester and beyond via Atherton and run the Leeds and Stalybridge services fully electrically via Bolton. That leaves the hourly service to Oxford Road (or hopefully extended to the Airport) as the big question mark. Would they dare to swap one of the half hourly Blackpool Airport services for a Wigan NW service?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

and run the Leeds (...) services fully electrically via Bolton

You couldn't do that, the Wigan-Leeds runs via Hebden Bridge, which isn't elecrified (Also TRU electrification isn't done yet so via Huddersfield wouldn't work either).

 

[Manutd1999]

2ph Wigan-Stalybridge seems a sensible long-term solution. 3ph Southport/Kirkby DNUs would then run to Rochdale or elsewhere via the Calder Valley.

The spanner in the works is Southport's vocal desire for a Castlefield link, which means an Oxford Rd shuttle could be kept as a compromise....

 

[Gricer99]

I can't see there being 5 tbh. My guess is the Leeds Wigan 158s will be extended to Southport and the Blackburn Calder Valley service might alternate between Kirkby and Southport. A lot depends on how reliable they can make the 769s.

 

[thealexweb]

I can't see there being 5 tbh. My guess is the Leeds Wigan 158s will be extended to Southport

The Northern 158 fleet is already maxed out is it not? Would mean needing other DMUs to support.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The Northern 158 fleet is already maxed out is it not? Would mean needing other DMUs to support.

As unreliable as they are, the 769s wound be displaced by this and could run #8's Rochdale-Southport.

If 6 of 8 769s were reliable enough you could probably have that service exclusively 769s, since it's just under a 5 hour round trip.

 

[Gricer99]

Just a thought- why cant they run an extra Blackpool to Man Airport service via WCML, WNW and Bolton?

 

[52290]

Just a thought- why cant they run an extra Blackpool to Man Airport service via WCML, WNW and Bolton?

Stopping at Leyland and Euxton Balshaw Lane?

 

[Gricer99]

Why not?

 

[AMD]

Just a thought- why cant they run an extra Blackpool to Man Airport service via WCML, WNW and Bolton?

Capacity through Castlefield corridor restricts how much can run.

 

[Gricer99]

But if you could run one of the Blackpool to Manchester Airport trains via Wigan and Bolton you have the same capacity.

 

[AMD]

But how are you going to keep the same number of stops for Horwich and Chorley? Other than reinstating the Vic to Preston stopper.

 

[jonnyfan]

From what I have read in various posts on these forums I think the service plan proposed is something like:
1 TPH Wigan North Western - Bolton - Stalybridge (323s)
1 TPH Southport - Bolton - Oxford Road (769s)
1 TPH Southport - Atherton - Victoria (diesel stock/maybe 769s)
1 TPH Headbolt Lane - Atherton - Victoria - Rochdale - Blackburn (diesel stock)

The hourly Wigan - Victoria - Leeds will change to Salford Central - Victoria - Leeds, using the new turnback facility being built near Salford Central.

 

[cle]

But how are you going to keep the same number of stops for Horwich and Chorley? Other than reinstating the Vic to Preston stopper.

That should happen regardless.

Do we know when Rochdale is due to be wired? Is that the next section (other than TRU) ?

Maybe taking up Huddersfield stoppers is another S bahn-esque route for some of these services to run through Vic, like the aforementioned Preston EMU stopper.

 

[Halish Railway]

From what I have read in various posts on these forums I think the service plan proposed is something like:
1 TPH Wigan North Western - Bolton - Stalybridge (323s)
1 TPH Southport - Bolton - Oxford Road (769s)
1 TPH Southport - Atherton - Victoria (diesel stock/maybe 769s)
1 TPH Headbolt Lane - Atherton - Victoria - Rochdale - Blackburn (diesel stock)

The hourly Wigan - Victoria - Leeds will change to Salford Central - Victoria - Leeds, using the new turnback facility being built near Salford Central.

So 2tph via Bolton and Atherton. Pre-May 2018 there was 3 tph via Bolton; One from Huddersfield/to Stalybridge to Wigan Wallgate, one from Blackburn via Todmorden to Wigan Wallgate doing the stops between Salford Crescent and Bolton and one from Manchester Airport to Southport.

The Atherton services came from Kirkby and Southport.

Knowing this and with the third platform at Salford Crescent I think three trains per hour via Bolton should be possible, with one Southport to Manchester Airport service would by Sprinters and 769s and 2tph Wigan Northwestern to Stalybridge, all calling at the intermediate stations between Bolton and Salford Crescent, worked by 323s.

 

[Gricer99]

But how are you going to keep the same number of stops for Horwich and Chorley? Other than reinstating the Vic to Preston stopper.

Exactly that!

 

[thealexweb]

Exactly that!

Not optimal but the Cumbria services could pick up the stoppers?

 

[Farigiraf]

From what I have read in various posts on these forums I think the service plan proposed is something like:
1 TPH Wigan North Western - Bolton - Stalybridge (323s)
1 TPH Southport - Bolton - Oxford Road (769s)
1 TPH Southport - Atherton - Victoria (diesel stock/maybe 769s)
1 TPH Headbolt Lane - Atherton - Victoria - Rochdale - Blackburn (diesel stock)

The hourly Wigan - Victoria - Leeds will change to Salford Central - Victoria - Leeds, using the new turnback facility being built near Salford Central.

Which of these services would have the parliamentary Clifton stop twice a day?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Which of these services would have the parliamentary Clifton stop twice a day?

Potentially Stalybridge as is currently but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Gricer99]

Why not give Clifton a few more services?

 

[507020]

From what I've heard it might be a Blackburn and Manchester Oxford Road to Southport via Atherton from May timetable change but I'm not sure of the official plans though.

If this is correct, what does it mean for Southport - Bolton, 769s to Blackburn, the Wigan North Western - Stalybridge Sunday service and Headbolt Lane services?

Northern’s point blank refusal to alter the holy MRTF Option B+ timetable despite it being completely unfit for purpose, offering no connectivity or flexibility for electrification work that was planned still doesn’t mean they should run anything as unambitious as this.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

769s to Blackburn

Would this be on the Rochdale - Blackburn via Bolton services?
It does seem like a decent place to send them next, but one failing to move to diesel (as one did on Monday) at Bolton would be much worse than when one sets down in P5, as P1 is used much more frequently (and the backup is the also busy P3).

the Wigan North Western - Stalybridge Sunday service

I don't see why that'd be impacted, if anything that might turn to EMU first if they're ready a bit before timetable change? (very big question mark on that one though, since the trains would probably need different ECS paths to depots/sidings)

what does it mean for Southport - Bolton

Change at Hindley, it could probably be timetabled to be a quick connection.

Headbolt Lane services?

Personally I'd be a big fan of 3tph on the Atherton line, but pretty much everything here is speculation, they could run it as a shuttle to Wigan (although that'd probably need 2 units due to otherwise having very tight timings).

 

[themiller]

Would this be on the Rochdale - Blackburn via Bolton services?
It does seem like a decent place to send them next, but one failing to move to diesel (as one did on Monday) at Bolton would be much worse than when one sets down in P5, as P1 is used much more frequently (and the backup is the also busy P3).

What’s the problem with 769s not changing mode? Thameslink services change mode on much busier tracks daily and TGVs change from ac to dc and vice versa. Can Northern maintenance teams not sort the problems on what are relatively ‘agricultural‘ units.