Rail Freight Flows and News UK

[Adrian Barr]

4N02 not running (auto-call schedule / "Q" path / not required) but on the plus side 6M84 Colas china clay is a runner

 

[Zander trains]

4N02 not running (auto-call schedule / "Q" path / not required) but on the plus side 6M84 Colas china clay is a runner

Ok thanks, do you think it will run this week or not?

 

[Adrian Barr]

4N02 not planned to run this week - it might start running at some point in the future but I've not heard any rumours about a new service starting.

 

[Zander trains]

4N02 not planned to run this week - it might start running at some point in the future but I've not heard any rumours about a new service starting.

Ok, thanks for this

 

[Sun Chariot]

6O40 Westbury to Ardingly (near Haywards Heath) and 6V57 return. The service is booked to start this week. First 3 days' paths not used. The rest are showing "as required".

I am keen to see whether the service will utilise 59s - as used on 6O68 Westbury to Crawley - or whether 66 also appear on it, as per 6O52 Westbury to Chichester. The paths show "load 1800 tons" which mirrors the Crawley turn; so my guess is 59 allocated to it.

 

[Class15]

6O40 Westbury to Arlington (nr Haywards Heath), plus 6V57 return. The service is booked to start this week; today’s path not used. The rest of this week is showing "as required".

I am keen to see whether the service will utilise 59s - as used on 6O68 Westbury to Crawley - or whether 66 also appear on it, as per 6O52 Westbury to Chichester. The paths show "load 1800 tons" which mirrors the Crawley turn; so my guess is 59 allocated to it.

The trains to Hanwell and onwards towards the North London line are luck of the draw, really, so I wouldn’t be surprised if 66s appear.

Also - do you mean “Ardingly”?

 

[Sun Chariot]

The trains to Hanwell and onwards towards the North London line are luck of the draw, really, so I wouldn’t be surprised if 66s appear.

Also - do you mean “Ardingly”?

Ruddy spell check! Thanks - corrected.

The Crawley turn, in its first year of running, I think produced only three instances of 66 haulage. I don't know if preference for a 59 is for haulage characteristics, or merely convenience for allocation.
The West Coastway route is pretty flat; I suspect the leg from the Mendips to the south coast, is more hilly.
Either way, having a third booked working through Hampshire and West Sussex, is a blessed relief from SWR, Southern and GWR units.

 

[Class15]

Ruddy spell check! Thanks - corrected.

The Crawley turn, in its first year of running, I think produced only three instances of 66 haulage. I don't know if preference for a 59 is for haulage characteristics, or merely convenience for allocation.
The West Coastway route is pretty flat; I suspect the leg from the Mendips to the south coast, is more hilly.

That’s interesting - I rather assumed the Mendip 59s and 66s were in a common pool when it came to the stone trains. However, a quick check does indeed support what you have said!

I assume it’s either that the trains are heavier or that there are worse gradients, as you’ve said.

 

[Adrian Barr]

I suspect the leg from the Mendips to the south coast, is more hilly.

The bank from Westbury to Warminster limits the max load heading onto the southern. Max load for a standard 66 would be about 17 wagons, a 59 can pull 19 or 20 (19 wagons on today's 6O68).

 

[Sun Chariot]

The bank from Westbury to Warminster limits the max load heading onto the southern. Max load for a standard 66 would be about 17 wagons, a 59 can pull 19 or 20 (19 wagons on today's 6O68).

Thanks Adrian. Interesting that the typical 18-19 bogies on 6O68 turns, only just tips beyond the 66's threshold.
I have seen some of Crawley and Chichester workings part-loaded, so it is possible those three known 66-hauled 6O68 turns were part loads.

 

[allezgitan]

Hi guys, not sure if im in the right thread here.
I was near Shrewsbury station today on a bridge overlooking the sidings. Me and a man were fascinated by them loading this GB railfreight service. Im now interested in Tracking the services but i am struggling to use the working time table? As i can understand it, it is no longer a web service and it printed in advance in pdfs? very confused, help is appreciated

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2024 ==

Hi guys, not sure if im in the right thread here.
I was near Shrewsbury station today on a bridge overlooking the sidings. Me and a man were fascinated by them loading this GB railfreight service. Im now interested in Tracking the services but i am struggling to use the working time table? As i can understand it, it is no longer a web service and it printed in advance in pdfs? very confused, help is appreciated

It was at just before 4pm

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2024 ==

Hi guys, not sure if im in the right thread here.
I was near Shrewsbury station today on a bridge overlooking the sidings. Me and a man were fascinated by them loading this GB railfreight service. Im now interested in Tracking the services but i am struggling to use the working time table? As i can understand it, it is no longer a web service and it printed in advance in pdfs? very confused, help is appreciated

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2024 ==


It was at just before 4pm

In the sidings on the line to chirk and wrexham

 

[geordieblue]

Hi guys, not sure if im in the right thread here.
I was near Shrewsbury station today on a bridge overlooking the sidings. Me and a man were fascinated by them loading this GB railfreight service. Im now interested in Tracking the services but i am struggling to use the working time table? As i can understand it, it is no longer a web service and it printed in advance in pdfs? very confused, help is appreciated

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2024 ==


It was at just before 4pm

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2024 ==


In the sidings on the line to chirk and wrexham

Could it have been this? https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H26094/2024-12-16/detailed#allox_id=0

(PS - Real Time Trains is a great way to track freight train movements - it can be a bit fiddly working out what different freight terminals are called but once you get the hang of it it should be fairly intuitive.)

 

[allezgitan]

Could it have been this? https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H26094/2024-12-16/detailed#allox_id=0

(PS - Real Time Trains is a great way to track freight train movements - it can be a bit fiddly working out what different freight terminals are called but once you get the hang of it it should be fairly intuitive.)

Thank you kindly

 

[Adrian Barr]

Interesting that the typical 18-19 bogies on 6O68 turns, only just tips beyond the 66's threshold.
I have seen some of Crawley and Chichester workings part-loaded, so it is possible those three known 66-hauled 6O68 turns were part loads.

To be more specific, the max trailing loads via Warminster are 1705 tons for a standard 66, 1770 tons for a 66/6, and 2000 for a 59.

The box wagons on the Crawley are typically ~98 tons fully loaded, so a 66/6 could pull 18 if needed. Judging from photos, it appears that 59s are the usual traction for anything running via Warminster, although the trains with 17 wagons can run with 66s if required without reducing the load:

Usual traction and loads of Mendip stone trains via Warminster:

• Southampton: 59 + 17 bogie boxes
• Fareham: 59 + 17 bogie boxes
• Chichester: 59 + 14 bogie boxes (limited by terminal length)
• Crawley: 59 + 19 wagons (boxes or sometimes hoppers)
• Botley: 59 + 19 hoppers
• Eastleigh: 59 + 19 hoppers
• Woking: 59 + 17 bogie boxes (length limited by shunts at Woking)

The caption to this photo of 66596 on 6O68 in April 2024 mentions it was only the second appearance of a 66/5 on the working - it had 19 wagons but 7 were empty.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/64657021@N07/53633050162/

From memory, I think 59s have always been fairly solid traction on the night workings to Eastleigh or Botley, with 18 or 19 wagons typical (I count 19 in this shot of 59102 at Eastleigh in 2021): https://www.flickr.com/photos/92715194@N04/51757045801/

66s were more common on the Fareham workings, with 16 wagons seen here behind 66131 in 2018: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisperkins/27273830907/

I'm intrigued to see that hoppers (as well as boxes) are sometimes used on the Crawley workings - today's 6O68 is running with 16 HOA / IIAs for example.
The caption to this August photo of 59103 with hoppers on 6O68 explains a bit more about why this use of hoppers sometimes occurs:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/64657021@N07/53938691375/

The Cemex hopper discharge facility at Crawley was previously served via an interesting working from Peak Forest:
60065 passes Clapham Junction in 2009 with the empties: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jason15c/16540747451/
Loadhaul 60059 passing Redhill, also in 2009: https://www.flickr.com/photos/locohunter/6259972220/

After those Cemex workings from Peak Forest ceased, there were occasional trains of hoppers into Crawley (e.g. from Cardiff Docks and Cliffe), but most trains ran with box wagons, presumably to the other terminal which is owned by Days, although there is also a Brett Concrete Plant and an "Express Asphalt" plant owned by Aggregate Industries there. In addition to the regular Mendip trains, Crawley has received traffic from a variety of places in 2024 including Bardon Hill, Coton Hill (Shrewsbury), Grain, Cliffe and also "incinerator bottom ash aggregate" from the Days incinerator ash processing facility at Brentford.

I'm not sure if the Cemex terminal has closed and reopened at some point (Crawley Cemex Concrete Plant has an entry on the Cemex website but is shown as temporarily closed on Google maps) or whether the hopper discharge is being used by Days or Brett in addition to box wagons. Signs at the entrance to Crawley on google streetview are visible for Aggregate Industries, Day Aggregates, and Cemex Readymix - with two separate terminals at Crawley and possibly four different customers involved, it's rather confusing!

I was near Shrewsbury station today on a bridge overlooking the sidings. Me and a man were fascinated by them loading this GB railfreight service.

The wagons on the service linked by geordieblue (6F05 19:31 Coton Hill - Wellingborough) have delivered the stone to Colnbrook this morning as 6V48 03:50 from Wellingborough.

It's one of the hopper sets used by Aggregate Industries. After working the regular 6E97 Bardon Hill - Tinsley stone train yesterday, it ran to Coton Hill as 6M05 (via Derby, Walsall and Wolverhampton). After unloading the stone at Colnbrook today, the wagons are returning to Bardon Hill as 6M54. The Aggregate Industries sets spend most of their time working from Bardon Hill and Grain. As I understand it, the material loaded at Coton Hill is special "high PSV" stone from a local quarry, used in the production of skid-resistant asphalt.

==============================================

There have been some overnight Margam - Scunthorpe coke workings in the past couple of weeks. On the Tata UK YouTube channel they discussed the running down of raw material stocks before final closure of the blast furnace in September, and mentioned that any remaining materials (such as coke) would be sold.

6E66 18:20 Margam - Scunthorpe has run on 26th and 29th November, plus 2nd, 4th, 6th, 11th December (with a special Saturday 6E67 13:20 Margam - Scunthorpe on 14th Dec).
Return empties have been running as 4Z66 or 4V66, leaving Scunthorpe in the afternoon or early evening.
With the dark winter evenings photos are scarce, but here is 66106 passing Wilnecote with 21 HTAs as 4Z66 14:28 from Scunthorpe on 1st December: https://www.flickr.com/photos/89144442@N05/54178507445/

4Z66 ran again last night (18:23 from Scunthorpe) and is also planned to run Tue + Wed, with 6E66 planned to run Tue/Wed/Thu this week.
The coke is loaded in the Grange Sidings at Port Talbot (where incoming coal and scrap were previously handled, plus outgoing aggregate processed from slag). At Scunthorpe the coke is offloaded in the new terminal near Anchor sidings, where coke from Immingham is also offloaded. The Coal Handling Plant on the other side of the line is used for sporadic deliveries of coal from Immingham - with the coke ovens now closed at Scunthorpe, most HTA workings are delivering coke, but some coal is still required for direct injection into the blast furnaces.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Thanks @Adrian Barr Really comprehensive info.

Yes - the photographer of 66596's Flickr image, he's local to me and we have often bumped into one another. Some of Steve's Flickr shots bear an uncanny resemblance to ones on my "Loco Hauled Around Havant" photos thread, on this very forum.

Yes - when Crawley Terminal #2 only needs resupply (hopper compatible), then we typically see HOA hoppers sent. Steve's shot (the one you linked with 59103) is one such.
When (more usually) Crawley's Terminal #1 needs resupply, we see the VTG bogie boxes.
This summer, there were two trains which - very unusually - came with the elderly O&K JHA hoppers (formerly Yeoman). Here's a shot of the second working (with the last remaining Hanson 59/1 to boot) along the West Coastway, 1st August.

 

[Class15]

To be more specific, the max trailing loads via Warminster are 1705 tons for a standard 66, 1770 tons for a 66/6, and 2000 for a 59.

The box wagons on the Crawley are typically ~98 tons fully loaded, so a 66/6 could pull 18 if needed. Judging from photos, it appears that 59s are the usual traction for anything running via Warminster, although the trains with 17 wagons can run with 66s if required without reducing the load:

Usual traction and loads of Mendip stone trains via Warminster:

• Southampton: 59 + 17 bogie boxes
• Fareham: 59 + 17 bogie boxes
• Chichester: 59 + 14 bogie boxes (limited by terminal length)
• Crawley: 59 + 19 wagons (boxes or sometimes hoppers)
• Botley: 59 + 19 hoppers
• Eastleigh: 59 + 19 hoppers
• Woking: 59 + 17 bogie boxes (length limited by shunts at Woking)

The caption to this photo of 66596 on 6O68 in April 2024 mentions it was only the second appearance of a 66/5 on the working - it had 19 wagons but 7 were empty.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/64657021@N07/53633050162/

From memory, I think 59s have always been fairly solid traction on the night workings to Eastleigh or Botley, with 18 or 19 wagons typical (I count 19 in this shot of 59102 at Eastleigh in 2021): https://www.flickr.com/photos/92715194@N04/51757045801/

66s were more common on the Fareham workings, with 16 wagons seen here behind 66131 in 2018: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisperkins/27273830907/

I'm intrigued to see that hoppers (as well as boxes) are sometimes used on the Crawley workings - today's 6O68 is running with 16 HOA / IIAs for example.
The caption to this August photo of 59103 with hoppers on 6O68 explains a bit more about why this use of hoppers sometimes occurs:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/64657021@N07/53938691375/

The Cemex hopper discharge facility at Crawley was previously served via an interesting working from Peak Forest:
60065 passes Clapham Junction in 2009 with the empties: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jason15c/16540747451/
Loadhaul 60059 passing Redhill, also in 2009: https://www.flickr.com/photos/locohunter/6259972220/

After those Cemex workings from Peak Forest ceased, there were occasional trains of hoppers into Crawley (e.g. from Cardiff Docks and Cliffe), but most trains ran with box wagons, presumably to the other terminal which is owned by Days, although there is also a Brett Concrete Plant and an "Express Asphalt" plant owned by Aggregate Industries there. In addition to the regular Mendip trains, Crawley has received traffic from a variety of places in 2024 including Bardon Hill, Coton Hill (Shrewsbury), Grain, Cliffe and also "incinerator bottom ash aggregate" from the Days incinerator ash processing facility at Brentford.

I'm not sure if the Cemex terminal has closed and reopened at some point (Crawley Cemex Concrete Plant has an entry on the Cemex website but is shown as temporarily closed on Google maps) or whether the hopper discharge is being used by Days or Brett in addition to box wagons. Signs at the entrance to Crawley on google streetview are visible for Aggregate Industries, Day Aggregates, and Cemex Readymix - with two separate terminals at Crawley and possibly four different customers involved, it's rather confusing!



The wagons on the service linked by geordieblue (6F05 19:31 Coton Hill - Wellingborough) have delivered the stone to Colnbrook this morning as 6V48 03:50 from Wellingborough.

It's one of the hopper sets used by Aggregate Industries. After working the regular 6E97 Bardon Hill - Tinsley stone train yesterday, it ran to Coton Hill as 6M05 (via Derby, Walsall and Wolverhampton). After unloading the stone at Colnbrook today, the wagons are returning to Bardon Hill as 6M54. The Aggregate Industries sets spend most of their time working from Bardon Hill and Grain. As I understand it, the material loaded at Coton Hill is special "high PSV" stone from a local quarry, used in the production of skid-resistant asphalt.

Wow. That is an incredibly detailed and informative post! Do you mind if I ask you one question regarding the stone trains, which is: are there any of the GWML trains towards London which are regularly 59 hauled? The ones I usually see come from Chelmsford, Churchyard Sidings and Dagenham. They used to be dominated by 59s but now see 66s almost always.

 

[Adrian Barr]

are there any of the GWML trains towards London which are regularly 59 hauled?

I think 59s are still regular traction for the jumbo services which split at Southall or Hanwell, but from there I don't know which portions are booked for 59 vs 66 traction (especially since the Mendip timetable was recast a while back).

Looking at movements of the 59s this month, they have worked 7A80 / 6A00 / 6A40 / 7A30 / 6A90 / 7A29 / 6A10 jumbos from the quarries to London.

59s have also worked the following portions of the jumbos from Hanwell or Southall this month, although might not be the most common or booked traction on any particular service:

Acton stone terminal 7A31
Bow 7L81
Brentford 7A33
Chelmsford 6L14
Crawley 6O38
Dagenham 6L28
Harlow 6L42
Neasden 7M49
Newhaven 6O12
Purfleet 6L95
Purley 6O44/6O45
Tolworth 7O45
Watford 7M53

 

[Class15]

I think 59s are still regular traction for the jumbo services which split at Southall or Hanwell, but from there I don't know which portions are booked for 59 vs 66 traction (especially since the Mendip timetable was recast a while back).

Looking at movements of the 59s this month, they have worked 7A80 / 6A00 / 6A40 / 7A30 / 6A90 / 7A29 / 6A10 jumbos from the quarries to London.

59s have also worked the following portions of the jumbos from Hanwell or Southall this month, although might not be the most common or booked traction on any particular service:

Acton stone terminal 7A31
Bow 7L81
Brentford 7A33
Chelmsford 6L14
Crawley 6O38
Dagenham 6L28
Harlow 6L42
Neasden 7M49
Newhaven 6O12
Purfleet 6L95
Purley 6O44/6O45
Tolworth 7O45
Watford 7M53

Thank you!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Wow. That is an incredibly detailed and informative post! Do you mind if I ask you one question regarding the stone trains, which is: are there any of the GWML trains towards London which are regularly 59 hauled?

Adrian's reply mentions the "jumbo" double consists; and this shot on the Berks & Hants main - admittedly back in summer 2015 - gives a flavour.

 

[Class15]

Adrian's reply mentions the "jumbo" double consists; and this shot on the Berks & Hants main - admittedly back in summer 2015 - gives a flavour.

Fantastic shot - I’ve always wanted to go to that canal place - it looks wonderful!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Fantastic shot - I’ve always wanted to go to that canal place - it looks wonderful!

Thank you. I totally fluked that shot, zero pre planning!

 

[BRX]

I'm wondering if there's any further news on this, supposedly due to start next month, or whether it's one of those things that never got further than a press release.

The Paris-Daventry combi service through the Channel Tunnel gets a mention in the article below. No further details though, beyond "in the pipeline for 2025".

Will 2025 be a good year for the French intermodal sector?

Following a historic drop in volumes in 2023, this year has shown the resilience of French intermodal freight transport with traffic picking up again. By…

www.railfreight.com

Other international routes in the pipeline for 2025 include a new ‘combi’ service between Valenton and Daventry, connecting Paris to the logistics heartland of England, on the London-Birmingham route.

 

[Class15]

I can’t see it running via HS1 as it would not only involve a loco change at Ripple Lane (unless by some miracle the DB 92s are comfortable with running over the GOBLIN, NLL and WCML) but will be length and weight restricted over HS1’s steep gradients.

I suspect it’ll run the same way as the existing water and aluminium trains, ending up at Longhedge Jn and then via the WLL to Willesden and north along the WCML.

I don’t know anymore details of the customer etc. I have a sneaky suspicion it may involve Novatrans/Greenmodal as they have recently reinstated a large fleet of previously stored CT compliant flats for use in France. It may be me adding 2+2 and getting 5, but it seems a little bit too much of a coincidence to be reinstating CT gauge flats purely for domestic French operations.

There was a trial a while ago with a DB Class 92 with wagons from Wembley to Ripple Lane via Gospel Oak, Camden Road and Forest Gate.

 

[Zander trains]

There are a pair of Balfour Beatty class 20s coming up north to Scotland in February next year under 6J09.
They will be working a long the east coast from Dundee to Craiginches over the course of a few days with a drainage train.

however, I was wondering if anyone knows anything information about the routes prior to this or after in Scotland and if it will be doing any other work up here?

 

[Class15]

There are a pair of Balfour Beatty class 20s coming up north to Scotland in February next year under 6J09.
They will be working a long the east coast from Dundee to Craiginches over the course of a few days with a drainage train.

however, I was wondering if anyone knows anything information about the routes prior to this or after in Scotland and if it will be doing any other work up here?

The thread called “20901 and 20905” would be a good bet.

 

[geordieblue]

The log trains from Aberystwyth to Chirk have started running again - the last one was last weekend, and there’s another one today (I think previously they used to run about every three weeks, so not sure what’s spurred the increase in frequency).

However a comment under this Flickr image suggests that the Baglan Bay timber flow is about to cease - anyone know more?

 

[Sulzer451]

Evening all,

Can anyone advise if the Grain to Colnbrook trains have stopped running, 6O05 & 6V04 used to run regularly but now only one seems to run if at all, the regular 66's 793-796 seem to be doing anythingbut fuel trains now. any help would be great thanks..

 

[BRX]

They definitely haven't stopped running.

Here's one in motion right now.

Realtime Trains | 6O05 1739 Colnbrook Baa Gbrf to Grain Oil Terminal Gbrf | 23/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 6O05 1739 departure from Colnbrook Baa Gbrf to Grain Oil Terminal Gbrf on 23/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

They did stop for a while during Covid but run regularly again now. Whether slightly less frequently than before, I'm not sure, but maybe.

 

[Freightmaster]

They definitely haven't stopped running...
...Whether slightly less frequently than before, I'm not sure, but maybe.

The only thing I've noticed is that 6V75 and 6O07 stopped running about a month ago
and of course, one of the Colnbrook diagrams is cancelled on the days that a Prestwick
or Sinfin train is booked to operate.



MARK

 

[xotGD]

On the subject of Grain and Prestwick, does anyone know if either of these ever run:

6O68 0458 Prestwick B.P.Oil to Grain Oil Terminal Gbrf
6S68 0735 Grain Oil Terminal Gbrf to Carlisle N.Y.