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Rail Freight Flows and News UK
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Class15
Established Member
Ah okay. I think 4L60 and 4M63 might still be running 2x a week looking at Railcam.
geordieblue
Member
There is a trial running to Oxwellmains cement works at the minute, conveying gypsum from Hull (via Doncaster) - apparently this is used in the cement production process. Searching Oxwellmains_haul waste on RTT should make it show up.
A rake of cement wagons were also moved to Carlisle from Oxwellmains yesterday - whether for disposal, or for use elsewhere, I’m not sure.
A rake of cement wagons were also moved to Carlisle from Oxwellmains yesterday - whether for disposal, or for use elsewhere, I’m not sure.
littledude
Member
The rake of JPAs moved to Carlisle yesterday are, so I understand, to replace the 4 wheelers on the Alcan traffic
Freightmaster
Verified Rep
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I'm afraid I didn't see it, I saw the middle of the train (VTG /heidelberg cement) and the yellow back end of the loco.
D6130
Established Member
Could it have been the Avonmouth-Clitheroe empties?
possibly, the path and commodity look right - except that it went through the station - but RTT says the path wasn't activated. I guess RTT is wrong (again!)
Zander trains
Member
I was having a look on Rail record for the Aberdeen area and have found that on December 16th a brand new working is taking place with the winter timetable changes.
A DB Cargo intermodel freight is going to be running from Mossend down yard - Aberdeen waterloo under 4N02 and a same day return as 4N03.
It will be doing this 6 times a week however, I am unsure on what type of containers this train will be hauling , if anyone knows that would be great as I am planning on travelling to Aberdeen on the 16th to see it.
Also, is this the first time a DB Cargo intermodel has been to Aberdeen?
A DB Cargo intermodel freight is going to be running from Mossend down yard - Aberdeen waterloo under 4N02 and a same day return as 4N03.
It will be doing this 6 times a week however, I am unsure on what type of containers this train will be hauling , if anyone knows that would be great as I am planning on travelling to Aberdeen on the 16th to see it.
Also, is this the first time a DB Cargo intermodel has been to Aberdeen?
Last edited:
Adrian Barr
Member
These paths are probably related to a trial that DB ran on 12th December last year. There was a 4A02 Mossend - Aberdeen Waterloo loaded with tank containers (understood to contain drilling "mud" for the oil industry). These had reached Mossend from Teesport on 4S92. It returned from Aberdeen with empty wagons as 4D03.
These are WTT paths so it's not certain they will actually start running on the 16th - I'd try and get some more concrete 'gen' before making a journey.
This was the trial last December:
DB 66004 'Climate Hero' with a Trial Run from Mossend - Aberdeen at Greenfaulds: 12/12/23
Zander trains
Member
Thank you, I have bought a ticket to Aberdeen that day as there was one for a fiver, so hopefully it runs that day. If it doesn’t I should be able to try fit it in next time it does.
BRX
Established Member
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My experience is that newly appeared freight paths very often produce nothing at all. Much better to wait and see if they get used, and if so, with what frequency and on what days etc.
Adrian Barr
Member
Well, £5 sounds like a bargain day out either way!
The Clitheroe - Avonmouth set has a few Heidelberg-branded bogie wagons in it (with most of the train made up of "Castle Cement" 2-axle PCAs), as seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/91759729@N08/52707159682/
That would be the logical cement working (6M90 return empties) to see at Crewe around 10am. The other set of Heidelberg bogie wagons (VTG / Hanson / Heidelberg branding) is used on the Penyffordd workings.
6M42 Avonmouth - Penyffordd ran on Wednesday (4th) but on its planned route via Sutton Park - Walsall - Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury - Wrexham.
The recent workings of the Clitheroe - Avonmouth set were
6V84 2nd Dec (Clitheroe - Avonmouth)
6B90 3rd Dec (Avonmouth - Gloucester Yard)
6M90 7th Dec (Gloucester Yard - Clitheroe)
Unless it did a complete round trip without being recorded in TOPS or TRUST, I've no idea what working it was you saw at Crewe...
************
While on the subject of cement wagons, VTG have announced that Breedon have ordered 54 new JPA bogie cement wagons for delivery in Jan 2026
https://uk.vtg.com/news/news-detail/vtg-rail-uk-welcome-breedon-group-as-new-vtg-iwagon-customer
Breedon own the Hope cement works, so these will no doubt be replacing their 2-axle PCAs which normally work the Dewsbury and Walsall services (bogie wagons already work the Dagenham and Theale services).
https://www.breedongroup.com/products-and-services/gb/our-products/cement
If the Alcan PCAs are potentially being replaced by some of the Oxwellmains bogie JPAs (see posts #1533 and #1534), the numbers of 2-axle wagons left in regular service will reduce even further.
(Remaining 2-axle wagons in service were discussed in this 2023 thread - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...l-using-4-wheeled-wagons.252317/#post-6340749
with a bit of an update in posts #1485 and #1486 of this thread)
BRX
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Does anyone know anything about the service mentioned in this French article:
Fret ferroviaire : DB Cargo France lance un premier service combiné en propre
DB Cargo France a décidé de créer en propre une première liaison de transport combiné rail-route au début de l’année 2025. Cette relation transversale de courte distance reliera Metz et Nancy à Valenton. La filiale française de DB Cargo opérera par ailleurs une relation en combiné sur le...www.actu-transport-logistique.fr
which translates as
I am wondering if it'll use the same route as the existing Tunnel<>Daventry trains or is there some reason it might go via HS1 instead?
I'm wondering if there's any further news on this, supposedly due to start next month, or whether it's one of those things that never got further than a press release.
As of Tuesday 10th December GBRF's 4L53/4E53 Tinsley/Felixstowe service moves to Gateway so that's another result of the Maersk change.
EastWest
Member
Does anybody know what is happening with the Cornish china clay traffic? From RTT there doesn’t appear to have been any for the past two weeks (nor again today).
Paths appearing in RTT from 16th Dec for gbrf working Portbury-Margam steel traffic as rumoured. These are WTT paths unlike the DB cargo STP workings. No trains booked in this week for DB so that’s probably it from them, last working was on Thurs 5th, just a single trip.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Note that the first run on a Monday morning is a light loco move, presumably to pick up stock left at the docks over the weekend (as the intermodals used to do sometimes). Suspect the first day of operation won’t be a Monday unless they run a one-off working to get the empties in. Any idea what stock they will be using for this working?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Edited to add that having looked at booked workings later in the week, trains will run Monday-Saturday with the loco running light to Bristol East Depot on a Saturday afternoon, returning on Monday morning to pick up the loaded stock.
Realtime Trains | Departures from Portbury Dock Stop Board all day on 16/12/2024
Train information at Portbury Dock Stop Board all day on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Note that the first run on a Monday morning is a light loco move, presumably to pick up stock left at the docks over the weekend (as the intermodals used to do sometimes). Suspect the first day of operation won’t be a Monday unless they run a one-off working to get the empties in. Any idea what stock they will be using for this working?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Edited to add that having looked at booked workings later in the week, trains will run Monday-Saturday with the loco running light to Bristol East Depot on a Saturday afternoon, returning on Monday morning to pick up the loaded stock.
littledude
Member
I understand they’ll be using cut-down KEAs from WH Davies, they should be moving south imminentlyPaths appearing in RTT from 16th Dec for gbrf working Portbury-Margam steel traffic as rumoured. These are WTT paths unlike the DB cargo STP workings. No trains booked in this week for DB so that’s probably it from them, last working was on Thurs 5th, just a single trip.
Realtime Trains | Departures from Portbury Dock Stop Board all day on 16/12/2024
Train information at Portbury Dock Stop Board all day on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Note that the first run on a Monday morning is a light loco move, presumably to pick up stock left at the docks over the weekend (as the intermodals used to do sometimes). Suspect the first day of operation won’t be a Monday unless they run a one-off working to get the empties in. Any idea what stock they will be using for this working?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Edited to add that having looked at booked workings later in the week, trains will run Monday-Saturday with the loco running light to Bristol East Depot on a Saturday afternoon, returning on Monday morning to pick up the loaded stock.
Having looked those up, it’s interesting that they themselves were built with running gear from old tanker wagons - so essentially third-hand. A nice bit of resourcefulness in the industry!
co-tr-paul
Established Member
Engineering works and storm damage. Mainline was closed Liskeard to Plymouth last week.
Rumours around saying GBRf will take over too .
Cirque-R13
New Member
Doesn't the Dec 24 TT start from the 15th, so we'd expect to see a lot of new/changed WTT paths around then anyway?
Rhysdabeast
Established Member
Wagons are heading to Margam today on 6V24 14:21 Doncaster Down Decoy to Margam with 66789 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R36850/2024-12-10/detailed#allox_id=0
Wagons are:
VTG 3173 KEA
VTG 3224 KEA
VTG 3226 KEA
VTG 3194 KEA
VTG 3192 KEA
VTG 3237 KEA
VTG 3221 KEA
VTG 3216 KEA
Class15
Established Member
Jumped the gun with the Felixstowe stuff. All back now as far as FL are concerned. Aware that the Tinsley working is switching to Gateway though. In February there will likely be some more permanent movement.
Wavertreelad
Member
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- 811
Maersk/MSC have been diverting some ships to London Gateway because of port congestion in Felixstowe which may explain some recent changes.
Zander trains
Member
Does anybody know what days the DB Cargo 4S99 Tees Dock Bsc Export Berth to Grangemouth Tdg (Ews) tends to run? Thanks in advance
Freightmaster
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Zander trains
Member
Thank you, am I correct in saying that some wagons are dropped of at Mossend yard aswell?
marty56110
Member
No, all the traffic is for Grangemouth. Anything for Mossend travels on 4S92 which runs Monday to Fridays from Tees Dock.
Zander trains
Member
Does anyone know if 4N02 Mossend down yard - Aberdeen Waterloo is running today? Schedule was activated at 09:18 today, and was meant to leave over an hour ago but hasn’t.