GTR Class 377/387 cascade updates 2026

[Peter0124]

Earlier than that, 122 apparently has moved over to South Eastern today.

Pretty sure I seen 122 in Kings Cross yesterday so that was quick!

 

[Class15]

Pretty sure I seen 122 in Kings Cross yesterday so that was quick!

I think that’s 377122 rather than 387122!

 

[43096]

Pretty sure I seen 122 in Kings Cross yesterday so that was quick!

You are getting your 377 and 387 confused.

It was the move of 377122 to South Eastern that was reported.

 

[fgwrich]

You are getting your 377 and 387 confused.

It was the move of 377122 to South Eastern that was reported.

Indeed, perhaps I should have said 377122.

This is the path it has ran in today;

Realtime Trains | 5K77 1237 London Victoria to Ramsgate E.M.U.D. | 30/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 5K77 1237 departure from London Victoria to Ramsgate E.M.U.D. on 30/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bikeman78]

I know one or two can be found consistently on services in and out from Ramsgate, but how that works with the diagrams is something I don't know.

There must be at least one in and out of Ramsgate each day because they are based there. The two Sheerness units start and end at Faversham or Gillingham. I'm guessing that there is a Ramsgate to Gillingham or Tonbridge diagram (or vice versa) to cycle the units around.

 

[JonathanH]

There must be at least one in and out of Ramsgate each day because they are based there. The two Sheerness units start and end at Faversham or Gillingham. I'm guessing that there is a Ramsgate to Gillingham or Tonbridge diagram (or vice versa) to cycle the units around.

Southeastern diagrams on their website here https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/freedom-of-information

Various 375/3s go to and from Ramsgate each day, with a swap possible on a number of the diagrams.

Diagram 301 is overnight at Ashford, works front part of 1W91 0712 Ashford International to Cannon Street, spends the day at Grove Park, then 1G85 1641 Cannon Street to Dover Priory as part of an 11 coach. Splits off for 2U61 1850 Dover Priory to Faversham, then to Ramsgate Depot, and later 2U80 2253 Ramsgate to Gillingham. Overnight at Gillingham.

Diagram 302 is overnight at Faversham. Works morning services on Sittingbourne to Sheerness, goes to Ramsgate Depot, then 11 coach (not Fridays) on 2W48 1442 Ramsgate to Charing Cross, 2R52 1704 Charing Cross to Ramsgate, then to Ramsgate Depot, and later 2W20 2242 Ramsgate to Tonbridge on its own. Overnight at Tonbridge.

Diagram 303 is overnight at Gillingham. Does Medway Valley all day, and ends at Gillingham

Diagram 304 is overnight at Gillingham. Does Medway Valley all day, ends Tonbridge, and then empty to stable overnight at Ashford.

Diagram 305 is overnight at Gillingham. Does Sheerness all day, and ends at Gillingham.

Diagram 306 is overnight at Gillingham. Does Medway Valley all day, and ends at Gillingham.

Diagram 307 is overnight at Gillingham. Works 2U03 0553 Gillingham to Dover Priory, then 1P15 0716 Dover Priory to Victoria, becoming a 7 coach at Faversham, 1S16 0940 Victoria to Ramsgate. Into Ramsgate Depot, then empty to work afternoon Sheerness services. Finishes at Faversham.

Diagram 308 does afternoon (not Friday) only off Ramsgate depot. Does 2W54 1607 Ramsgate to Charing Cross, becoming 11 coach at Ashford, 2R58 1834 Charing Cross to Ramsgate, and ends at Ramsgate

Diagram 309 is overnight at Tonbridge. Does Medway Valley all day, and ends at Gillingham.

Also appears that only 465s and 466s currently work into Tunbridge Wells Turnback siding (as 8 and 10 coach trains).

 

[Southern Dvr]

Indeed, perhaps I should have said 377122.

This is the path it has ran in today;

Realtime Trains | 5K77 1237 London Victoria to Ramsgate E.M.U.D. | 30/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 5K77 1237 departure from London Victoria to Ramsgate E.M.U.D. on 30/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

And we have a total of ZERO new 387s available on Southern. So don’t be surprised if we see short forms on the Southern side.

 

[bramling]

Uh

And we have a total of ZERO new 387s available on Southern. So don’t be surprised if we see short forms on the Southern side.

It does all seem a little rushed, given that no 379s have actually entered service, and especially that if the 377s on Southeastern are intended to replace Networkers there’s no actual *need* for them to be fast-tracked over there.

There have already been a few short-forms on GN recently.

 

[physics34]

Depends if we see the units come into service at their new TOCs bang on Dec 14 or not,. I guess they all need debranding.. and re branding which could take a day or two. Software upgrades too. No idea if the are getting vinyled externally!

 

[brad465]

Diagram 302 is overnight at Faversham. Works morning services on Sittingbourne to Sheerness, goes to Ramsgate Depot, then 11 coach (not Fridays) on 2W48 1442 Ramsgate to Charing Cross, 2R52 1704 Charing Cross to Ramsgate, then to Ramsgate Depot, and later 2W20 2242 Ramsgate to Tonbridge on its own. Overnight at Tonbridge.

...

Diagram 307 is overnight at Gillingham. Works 2U03 0553 Gillingham to Dover Priory, then 1P15 0716 Dover Priory to Victoria, becoming a 7 coach at Faversham, 1S16 0940 Victoria to Ramsgate. Into Ramsgate Depot, then empty to work afternoon Sheerness services. Finishes at Faversham.

I was wondering why the 3-car that doesn't do afternoon services doesn't just sit in the short siding in Sittingbourne, which would be a physically shorter move each way. The unit being diagrammed into mainline services would explain why.

 

[Bikeman78]

Southeastern diagrams on their website here https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/freedom-of-information

Various 375/3s go to and from Ramsgate each day, with a swap possible on a number of the diagrams.

Diagram 301 is overnight at Ashford, works front part of 1W91 0712 Ashford International to Cannon Street, spends the day at Grove Park, then 1G85 1641 Cannon Street to Dover Priory as part of an 11 coach. Splits off for 2U61 1850 Dover Priory to Faversham, then to Ramsgate Depot, and later 2U80 2253 Ramsgate to Gillingham. Overnight at Gillingham.

Diagram 302 is overnight at Faversham. Works morning services on Sittingbourne to Sheerness, goes to Ramsgate Depot, then 11 coach (not Fridays) on 2W48 1442 Ramsgate to Charing Cross, 2R52 1704 Charing Cross to Ramsgate, then to Ramsgate Depot, and later 2W20 2242 Ramsgate to Tonbridge on its own. Overnight at Tonbridge.

Diagram 303 is overnight at Gillingham. Does Medway Valley all day, and ends at Gillingham

Diagram 304 is overnight at Gillingham. Does Medway Valley all day, ends Tonbridge, and then empty to stable overnight at Ashford.

Diagram 305 is overnight at Gillingham. Does Sheerness all day, and ends at Gillingham.

Diagram 306 is overnight at Gillingham. Does Medway Valley all day, and ends at Gillingham.

Diagram 307 is overnight at Gillingham. Works 2U03 0553 Gillingham to Dover Priory, then 1P15 0716 Dover Priory to Victoria, becoming a 7 coach at Faversham, 1S16 0940 Victoria to Ramsgate. Into Ramsgate Depot, then empty to work afternoon Sheerness services. Finishes at Faversham.

Diagram 308 does afternoon (not Friday) only off Ramsgate depot. Does 2W54 1607 Ramsgate to Charing Cross, becoming 11 coach at Ashford, 2R58 1834 Charing Cross to Ramsgate, and ends at Ramsgate

Diagram 309 is overnight at Tonbridge. Does Medway Valley all day, and ends at Gillingham.

Also appears that only 465s and 466s currently work into Tunbridge Wells Turnback siding (as 8 and 10 coach trains).

Thank you for this. Very useful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2024 ==

I was wondering why the 3-car that doesn't do afternoon services doesn't just sit in the short siding in Sittingbourne, which would be a physically shorter move each way. The unit being diagrammed into mainline services would explain why.

You would end up with the same unit at Faversham every night. To be honest, I only realised yesterday that Sheerness isn't half hourly all day any more.

 

[Class455]

And we have a total of ZERO new 387s available on Southern. So don’t be surprised if we see short forms on the Southern side.

Isn’t ex GWR 387172 currently at Selhurst? That should have been the unit to effectively replace 377122, though yes it may not be available for traffic just yet.

 

[Dhansak]

I believe the new 1J92 07:02 BOG - LBG and corresponding 1J93 18:03 return are scheduled for 387 operation. Looks like it may be a self-contained peak-time diagram (units look to be berthed at Selhurst for the day).

 

[Southern Dvr]

Isn’t ex GWR 387172 currently at Selhurst? That should have been the unit to effectively replace 377122, though yes it may not be available for traffic just yet.

It won’t see active service until December TT I would expect. 172 is in the heavy maintenance shed having various bits of fettle done and presumably a GTR vynal applied.

SN is a unit down until December TT at least.

 

[PGAT]

It won’t see active service until December TT I would expect. 172 is in the heavy maintenance shed having various bits of fettle done and presumably a GTR vynal applied.

SN is a unit down until December TT at least.

It’s not the end of the world. The timetable change is in 2 weeks and I haven’t noticed any short forms this morning

 

[Southern Dvr]

There’s a lot of balancing shortage emails I’ve seen this morning.

 

[Timmyd]

As a result of these fleet changes, can we expect to get 8 car trains back on the London Bridge trains via Tulse Hill. The 377/3s are wonderfully comfortable for inner suburban use if you get a (all 2+2) seat but not really suited for it and very busy at peak times. Also note that one of the two morning crowd busters from Streatham Hill a year ago is withdrawn in the new timetable.

 

[PGAT]

As a result of these fleet changes, can we expect to get 8 car trains back on the London Bridge trains via Tulse Hill. The 377/3s are wonderfully comfortable for inner suburban use if you get a (all 2+2) seat but not really suited for it and very busy at peak times. Also note that one of the two morning crowd busters from Streatham Hill a year ago is withdrawn in the new timetable.

Maybe, perhaps it’s possible 10 car formations return to East Grinstead and the two routes swap their unit allocations to allow that to happen

 

[physics34]

As a result of these fleet changes, can we expect to get 8 car trains back on the London Bridge trains via Tulse Hill. The 377/3s are wonderfully comfortable for inner suburban use if you get a (all 2+2) seat but not really suited for it and very busy at peak times. Also note that one of the two morning crowd busters from Streatham Hill a year ago is withdrawn in the new timetable.

There have been many opportunities to move the seat formations around thr units to make the 3 cars high density and more 4 cars low density for longer distance routes. The high density 3 cars then couldve stayed on the metro!

 

[Class 466]

377s will replace all 465s on Ashford & Gillingham services - not Tunbridge Wells which needs 10 cars for capacity.

 

[PGAT]

377s will replace all 465s on Ashford & Gillingham services - not Tunbridge Wells which needs 10 cars for capacity.

Are you sure? Official sources have confidently asserted Maidstone/Tunbridge Wells and not Gillingham services. Surely there wouldn’t be enough 377s added for a full allocation on 2 of the routes and part on the third?

 

[JonathanH]

377s will replace all 465s on Ashford & Gillingham services - not Tunbridge Wells which needs 10 cars for capacity.

While I recognise that you may be in an informed position, the diagrams suggest that some of the Tunbridge Wells networker services only have 8 car formations now.

 

[brad465]

377s will replace all 465s on Ashford & Gillingham services - not Tunbridge Wells which needs 10 cars for capacity.

Interesting plot twist. Can they definitely take over all the Gillingham services? Off peak I'm confident they can, but peak time there is an increase in frequency and some 8-car formations. Also would be interesting to see how timings compare, while 377s have a higher top speed, the frequent calling pattern limits time above 75mph and 465s presumably have better acceleration at lower speeds.

Could 465s also disappear from the summer specials if these services continue?

 

[Southern Dvr]

As a result of these fleet changes, can we expect to get 8 car trains back on the London Bridge trains via Tulse Hill. The 377/3s are wonderfully comfortable for inner suburban use if you get a (all 2+2) seat but not really suited for it and very busy at peak times. Also note that one of the two morning crowd busters from Streatham Hill a year ago is withdrawn in the new timetable.

Nope. Still booked 6 cars.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Since many here are privy to the planned train lengths, would anybody be so kind as to lend some information on how long the LIT - VIC and BTN - VIC services are going to be for the most part? Still both 8?

 

[Southern Dvr]

Since many here are privy to the planned train lengths, would anybody be so kind as to lend some information on how long the LIT - VIC and BTN - VIC services are going to be for the most part? Still both 8?

Correct. 8-car.

At least one rush hour working to Eastbourne is booked for 8-car Class 387

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Exciting. Hope 387s take over the Littlehamptons not-before-long; much needed for the luggage racks given the large headway at Gatwick and no 3+2. Might make the trains usable again.

 

[physics34]

Exciting. Hope 387s take over the Littlehamptons not-before-long; much needed for the luggage racks given the large headway at Gatwick and no 3+2. Might make the trains usable again.

..but hard seats for a longish journey. Not ideal.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

They're more ideal than the 3+2 seating which occupies a majority of 377s. Plus with the airline seats, there are more seats overall which provides more chance of getting a seat. That's significantly more ideal for a longish journey.

 

[Class455]

377121 has now moved to Southeastern.