GTR Class 377/387 cascade updates 2026

[PGAT]

Their formation options will also be one to watch, you get some 10-car diagrams to Tunbridge Wells still, which gets well used in the peak when Orpington is served. Assuming only 4-car 377s come across, 10-car won't be an option, although 12-car will be, but will there be enough units to make the latter?

8 cars would require 10 units and all 12 cars would require 15 so probably not enough considering some are also being used on the Maidstone East line

 

[brad465]

8 cars would require 10 units and all 12 cars would require 15 so probably not enough considering some are also being used on the Maidstone East line

I doubt all diagrams would need to be 12 cars but yes there isn't any slack under that proposal, so I'd be surprised if Networkers completely disappear from the Tunbridge Wells' route, though the Maidstone East line should be relatively easy to lose.

 

[Millercool21]

What variant of the 377 is being transferred and does anybody know the exact numbers?

 

[xxjcz]

What variant of the 377 is being transferred and does anybody know the exact numbers?

Apparently 121 and 122 go over in December and then 123-133 go over to SE before Dec 2025

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2024 ==

Apparently 121 and 122 go over in December and then 123-133 go over to SE before Dec 2025

Also apparently 387116-129, 172-174 and 301-306 will all be moving south. Not sure how true this is

 

[Peter0124]

Will the 387s with Southern still be getting maintained at Hornsey? Or will the depot move south too.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Will the 387s with Southern still be getting maintained at Hornsey? Or will the depot move south too.

I’d imagine they will transfer to Lovers Walk & Stew Lane

 

[PGAT]

Apparently 121 and 122 go over in December and then 123-133 go over to SE before Dec 2025

Are those the ones with the 3+2 seating in every carriage?

 

[JonathanH]

Are those the ones with the 3+2 seating in every carriage?

Yes

 

[Mikey C]

The 377 move to Southeastern does seem to make some strategic sense particularly with regard to Networker replacement. By moving away from having Networkers on the longer distance outer suburban services, it should mean that the full Networker replacement can be a dedicated metro unit. Clearly it could also mean not having to procure as much new rolling stock.

The Networkers were never designed to operate mid Kent services anyway. I assume that only happened when the 376s were introduced, and some Networkers were shifted to longer routes (and the sub class 465/9 created).

 

[JonathanH]

I assume that only happened when the 376s were introduced, and some Networkers were shifted to longer routes (and the sub class 465/9 created).

Yes, the use of 465s on 'Weald' services to replace VEPs only started in a big way with the decision to build 376s for Metro services. However, 465s did work some off-peak services to Tunbridge Wells and Maidstone East before that.

 

[Millercool21]

Yes

Thank god I hate them 377s always cramped because they have only have the 2+2 seating at the carriage ends

 

[Chiltern006]

Will they be put into their relevant TOC liveries, or left as is?

 

[physics34]

Thank god I hate them 377s always cramped because they have only have the 2+2 seating at the carriage ends

Yeh, glad we are keeping 101 onwards...

 

[Sutton in Ant]

What can I say about Southeastern Railway getting 13 377/1s from Southern Railway? I just want to wish Southeastern Railway all the best of luck and I hope that Southeastern Railway customers will enjoy travelling on these trains.

 

[Class15]

The 377 move to Southeastern does seem to make some strategic sense particularly with regard to Networker replacement. By moving away from having Networkers on the longer distance outer suburban services, it should mean that the full Networker replacement can be a dedicated metro unit. Clearly it could also mean not having to procure as much new rolling stock.

That is a very interesting observation - not one I had thought of - and makes a lot of sense!

 

[Bikeman78]

Their formation options will also be one to watch, you get some 10-car diagrams to Tunbridge Wells still, which gets well used in the peak when Orpington is served. Assuming only 4-car 377s come across, 10-car won't be an option, although 12-car will be, but will there be enough units to make the latter?

How long are the platforms at Tunbridge Wells? I recall that the second batch of three car CEPs were specifically for the peak time trains to Tunbridge Wells. Shortening them seems an odd decision if they were still too long for the platforms but there might be some other reason that I have since forgotten. What do the three car class 375s do these days?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2024 ==

Apparently 121 and 122 go over in December and then 123-133 go over to SE before Dec 2025

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2024 ==


Also apparently 387116-129, 172-174 and 301-306 will all be moving south. Not sure how true this is

Would anyone like to hazard a guess what routes they will be used on? Will they be used randomly with the red ones, or will the red units stick to the Gatwick Express as much as possible? On that subject, are there any 387/2 still running out of Kings' Cross?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Apparently 121 and 122 go over in December and then 123-133 go over to SE before Dec 2025

Could not express how happy I am that it is those sets. They are by far the worst things operating long distance BML services.

 

[Class455]

How long are the platforms at Tunbridge Wells? I recall that the second batch of three car CEPs were specifically for the peak time trains to Tunbridge Wells. Shortening them seems an odd decision if they were still too long for the platforms but there might be some other reason that I have since forgotten. What do the three car class 375s do these days?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2024 ==


Would anyone like to hazard a guess what routes they will be used on? Will they be used randomly with the red ones, or will the red units stick to the Gatwick Express as much as possible? On that subject, are there any 387/2 still running out of Kings' Cross?

The 387/1's and 3's will mainly be used on Coastway services with some operating on London Victoria to Littlehampton/Ore/Eastbourne trains.

 

[Mikey C]

How long are the platforms at Tunbridge Wells? I recall that the second batch of three car CEPs were specifically for the peak time trains to Tunbridge Wells. Shortening them seems an odd decision if they were still too long for the platforms but there might be some other reason that I have since forgotten. What do the three car class 375s do these days?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2024 ==


Would anyone like to hazard a guess what routes they will be used on? Will they be used randomly with the red ones, or will the red units stick to the Gatwick Express as much as possible? On that subject, are there any 387/2 still running out of Kings' Cross?

Could selective door opening be used for 12 car services? The Networkers don't have that, but the Electrostars do.

 

[Doomotron]

What do the three car class 375s do these days?

Medway Valley and Sheerness. The rest are used with the rest of the fleet.

 

[PGAT]

Could selective door opening be used for 12 car services? The Networkers don't have that, but the Electrostars do.

Sure but it depends if the siding at the South of the station can fit 12 coaches and I doubt it can.

 

[brad465]

How long are the platforms at Tunbridge Wells? I recall that the second batch of three car CEPs were specifically for the peak time trains to Tunbridge Wells. Shortening them seems an odd decision if they were still too long for the platforms but there might be some other reason that I have since forgotten. What do the three car class 375s do these days?

228-232m according to RailwayData. Long enough for 11 carriages without SDO. I recall seeing a 12-car 375 diagrammed on some off-peak Tunbridge Wells' services pre-covid, so the siding in theory should be long enough. However, 375/3s (the three car variant) will not mix with 377s in service, and in any case there are only 10 of them, with at least half occupied by branch line operations, so probably not enough to form several 11-car trains.

 

[Bikeman78]

228-232m according to RailwayData. Long enough for 11 carriages without SDO. I recall seeing a 12-car 375 diagrammed on some off-peak Tunbridge Wells' services pre-covid, so the siding in theory should be long enough. However, 375/3s (the three car variant) will not mix with 377s in service, and in any case there are only 10 of them, with at least half occupied by branch line operations, so probably not enough to form several 11-car trains.

Thanks for all the replies. I had forgotten that there is now a reversing siding. In the slam door era, it was still pre HS1. Trains that terminated at Tunbridge Wells came from London Bridge or Horsham via Redhill and were formed of class 508 or single VEP/CIG. The 11 cars tended to peak hour Hastings trains where the rear unit detached at Tunbridge Wells and ran back to Tonbridge. I assume that the reverse happened in the morning.

Regarding class 375s, I didn't mean mixing them with class 377s. My thinking was to put 11 car 375s on the Tunbridge Wells route and use 377s elsewhere. However, it seems pointless putting four car units on Sheerness or Maidstone West. 12 cars to Tunbridge Wells using SDO would be a better use of the extra capacity.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2024 ==

Medway Valley and Sheerness. The rest are used with the rest of the fleet.

Thanks. Those two routes appear to require six units, leaving perhaps two for use elsewhere.

 

[Mikey C]

Maybe a few of the 377/3s should have been transferred to Southeastern, rather than 4 car units?

Leaving aside the couplers, the ease of swapping Electrostar units around between operators does show the benefit of having relative standardisation.

 

[brad465]

Regarding class 375s, I didn't mean mixing them with class 377s. My thinking was to put 11 car 375s on the Tunbridge Wells route and use 377s elsewhere. However, it seems pointless putting four car units on Sheerness or Maidstone West. 12 cars to Tunbridge Wells using SDO would be a better use of the extra capacity.

You do get the odd 4-car unit on the Medway Valley line, which I suspect is normally a relief unit rather than something booked. It does usually need SDO at Beltring though, going by the automated announcement I can recall from my Maidstone days. A 4-car would be well utilised on any of the school run diagrams, though at other times of the day less so.

Maybe a few of the 377/3s should have been transferred to Southeastern, rather than 4 car units?

It certainly would provide SE more flexibility, they could do 11-car on Tunbridge Wells and on the Maidstone East line, potentially more 6/7 car options where 4 is too little and 8 too many. However, I suspect Southern greatly benefit from the 3-car options as well.

 

[fgwrich]

Apparently 121 and 122 go over in December and then 123-133 go over to SE before Dec 2025

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2024 ==


Also apparently 387116-129, 172-174 and 301-306 will all be moving south. Not sure how true this is

Earlier than that, 122 apparently has moved over to South Eastern today.

 

[Doomotron]

Thanks. Those two routes appear to require six units, leaving perhaps two for use elsewhere.

I know one or two can be found consistently on services in and out from Ramsgate, but how that works with the diagrams is something I don't know.

Maybe a few of the 377/3s should have been transferred to Southeastern, rather than 4 car units?

It wouldn't have made sense to do that. The 375s and 377s can't work in multiple with each other (in passenger service), so the 377/3s would be limited to working with 377/5s. Other than the Tunbridge Wells issue, there's not much of a reason for Southeastern to have them over /1s. It also doesn't help that Southern losing /3s would result in a loss of capacity on suburban services since they frequently run in 4+3+3 formations.

 

[PGAT]

It also doesn't help that Southern losing /3s would result in a loss of capacity on suburban services since they frequently run in 4+3+3 formations.

To be fair they don't do that much anymore. All the 377/3 allocations as of now are either a single unit or a pair which can easily be substituted by 4 car units to increase capacity.

 

[Failed Unit]

Would anyone like to hazard a guess what routes they will be used on? Will they be used randomly with the red ones, or will the red units stick to the Gatwick Express as much as possible? On that subject, are there any 387/2 still running out of Kings' Cross?

I dont think so. Would be surprised if I haven’t seen it in the last few weeks if it is.

 

[Class455]

I dont think so. Would be surprised if I haven’t seen it in the last few weeks if it is.

No all the 387/2's are south of the river again. 387201 moved back over in June