New-style Paper Tickets

[scotrail158713]

In Scotrail Land TVMs still issue card tickets but ticket offices and onboard sales are the longer receipt style tickets.

I think they’re being introduced for Scotrail as well as I got one from a TVM at Glasgow Central on Friday that was the same as the one in the OP. That’s the first time I’d come across them though.

 

[stadler]

Yet to see them on Southern.

Southern (and all of GTR too) and Southeastern are (i think) the only two operators that are 100% CCST still. All of the Guards / Conductors / OBSs / OBMs on SN and SE only have CCST printers. All of the ticket offices at SN and SE only have CCST printers. All of the ticket machines (other than the Gatwick Airport and Luton Airport trial machines) at SN and SE only have CCST printers. So thankfully these two TOCs are the only sensible ones who have kept 100% CCST tickets. I hope it stays that way.

 

[tramdan]

Can All Line Rover tickets be printed on paper roll tickets? And will the barcode actually work any barriers?

I can sell All Line Rover tickets on paper roll, so yes. As for the barcode, I assume it would work gatelines, but I’ve never tried it myself so couldn’t say for sure. My experience with rovers on CCST at gatelines has been patchy at best.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Southern (and all of GTR too) and Southeastern are (i think) the only two operators that are 100% CCST still. All of the Guards / Conductors / OBSs / OBMs on SN and SE only have CCST printers. All of the ticket offices at SN and SE only have CCST printers. All of the ticket machines (other than the Gatwick Airport and Luton Airport trial machines) at SN and SE only have CCST printers. So thankfully these two TOCs are the only sensible ones who have kept 100% CCST tickets. I hope it stays that way.

That's probably because of the very high proportion of tickets that will include TfL travel. Once the TfL e-ticket issue is sorted, and it will be eventually, I'm sure those will switch for the cost saving too.

 

[akm]

The barcode doesn't fit on a credit card sized ticket.

Sorry, I have to ask "what?!"

Look at IMG 550 in the first post. OP says each piece of paper is as wide as a CC is long, so clearly those Aztec codes on the right would fit on a piece of paper the size of a CC. With room for text even.

 

[Purple Train]

It's probably worth noting at this juncture that, at my local station, which is TfL-operated and therefore only accepts CCSTs, as well has having both ticket machines and a ticket office, the majority of people who don't have season tickets still buy mobile tickets from Trainline and show them to the person on the barrier. So I wonder how low use of physical paper tickets is in places where e-tickets do work ticket barriers (if any)?

That being said, I do think that moving to these new varieties of paper ticket is a huge backwards step. CCSTs not only look smart, but they fit in a wallet (it's in the name, after all!) and are relatively robust. Printing out journey details on a flimsy strip of till roll and calling it a ticket is emblematic of the total PR disaster the railways have been lurching through for some time: is it a crisp, well-branded, piece of firm card, or a glorified Tesco receipt that languishes, forgotten, in the bottom of your pocket?

OK, I may be overreacting just a little bit - but my point is that people who don't like the growing proliferation of e-tickets and new paper tickets are not merely hankering after the past, nostalgic for magstripes, chronically unable to move with the times etc. etc. Should we get over it? Probably, but CCSTs will have to be physically prised from my fingers when they do go!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That being said, I do think that moving to these new varieties of paper ticket is a huge backwards step. CCSTs not only look smart, but they fit in a wallet (it's in the name, after all!) and are relatively robust.

Any wallet I've ever owned has a notes section, and both old style ATBs (airline ticket blanks) and new style bog roll fits in there perfectly well, and is less likely to fall out when removing a credit card than CCST.

 

[HSTEd]

It's a pity we can't have orange stripe branding on the till rolls, but I suppose that would make them a tiny fraction more expensive.

Personally I would prefer us to move to MiFARE style ITSO cards with a 10-20p deposit on them, with the ticket details printed on them in temporary ink. I saw an installation like that in a ski resort for lift passes years ago and it's stuck with me since! But I guess the rise of the smartphone e-ticket has swept all that away.

 

[signed]

It's a pity we can't have orange stripe branding on the till rolls

Don't some PRT do?

 

[deerokus]

In Scotrail Land TVMs still issue card tickets but ticket offices and onboard sales are the longer receipt style tickets.

That seems to depend. I've usually had the traditional style from ticket offices in and around Glasgow but it's quite possible there's something different going on there compared to other areas of Scotland.

 

[work-traveller]

Not seen a thread about new tickets yet so I will start a new one. I travelled by train yesterday purchasing a ticket at a WMT TVM at Sutton Coldfield and was surprised to receive a new style of paper ticket rather than the usual orange credit card sized ticket with a magnetic stripe on the back. There is a 2-D barcode on the front similar to that on e-tickets with several standard barcodes on the back. I am not a particular fan of e-tickets so prefer paper tickets where possible unless I know I may be short of time to collect a ticket before departure. I have not seen this type of ticket previously.

These tickets appear to be printed on a roll of paper which is 86mm wide, same as the length of a credit card, and about 116mm long (photos attached). Overall size is just over twice the size of a credit card ticket, though the two parts are not cut at exactly the same length.

The paper is more flimsy than credit card ticket stock and no doubt cheaper to produce. The size is not easy to keep flat but does allow text to be printed at a larger size and so is easier to read. I didn’t actually get to scan the tickets as the barriers were open at New Street. Presumably these tickets will be rolled out more widely in the coming months?

Those TVMs still have a roll of yellow/orange tickets inside, but they are only dispensed for pre-purchased tickets.

 

[HSTEd]

Sorry, I have to ask "what?!"

Look at IMG 550 in the first post. OP says each piece of paper is as wide as a CC is long, so clearly those Aztec codes on the right would fit on a piece of paper the size of a CC. With room for text even.

I've got some Credit Card stock and a till roll ticket side by side.

The barcode would fit on the non-orange segment of the ticket but obviously would require a total redesign of the ticket.

But then that would be needed anyway.

 

[occone]

My first encounter with these tickets was at Manchester Victoria, when one of these tickets deftly fell out of the ticket machine I was using, got caught in a gust of wind, and like a leaf in autumn, quickly tried to make an escape down the tram tracks.

Then the return portion printed, and it too swiftly proceeded to run after its sibling.

I felt completely stupid running after these tickets.

 

[kkong]

Sorry, I have to ask "what?!"

Look at IMG 550 in the first post. OP says each piece of paper is as wide as a CC is long, so clearly those Aztec codes on the right would fit on a piece of paper the size of a CC. With room for text even.

I have made this same point on the forum at least twice, providing an example of a credit card sized ticket with Aztec code from Slovakia.

Nobody who said "it couldn't be done in the UK" has ever replied saying why not.

Goodness knows, the layout and printing on many variants of CCST in the UK has been atrocious for a long time. So a redesign could entirely sort that out and include the Aztec code as well as human readable text on a ticket that is a sensible size for people to carry / store in a wallet and has some durability.

 

[156421]

I have made this same point on the forum at least twice, providing an example of a credit card sized ticket with Aztec code from Slovakia.

Nobody who said "it couldn't be done in the UK" has ever replied saying why not.

Goodness knows, the layout and printing on many variants of CCST in the UK has been atrocious for a long time. So a redesign could entirely sort that out and include the Aztec code as well as human readable text on a ticket that is a sensible size for people to carry / store in a wallet and has some durability.

The "promise to pay" slips dished out by Northern TVMs are CCST and have aztec code.

 

[signed]

Nobody who said "it couldn't be done in the UK" has ever replied saying why not.

Especially as it's the same format as the new French Credit-Card paper ticket used on TER and it has a full Aztec code

 

[Russel]

And we know how much the railway hates minorities.

Bold claim, that.

In reality, it simply isn't true, but there are members of this forum like to use minorities and all sorts of weird and wonderfully obscure reasons to object to change.

 

[chris_in_salop]

More ghastly flimsy rubbish that won't open the ticket barriers.

 

[Merseysider]

Northern machines at Liverpool Lime Street have been issuing these for a while.

Very useful that the Aztec code can't be read by Merseyrail (stuck in the 19th century) and it doesn't fit in the barriers.

Meaning anyone with the right type of paper could whip one up on Photoshop in a jiffy...

 

[Flying Snail]

Bold claim, that.

In reality, it simply isn't true, but there are members of this forum like to use minorities and all sorts of weird and wonderfully obscure reasons to object to change.

Yes, I was being sarcastic due to the unusual use of "minority" as a reason to justify discriminating against a group.

 

[01d-and]

Are they biodegradable / recyclable ??

 

[Sonic1234]

Southern (and all of GTR too) and Southeastern are (i think) the only two operators that are 100% CCST still. All of the Guards / Conductors / OBSs / OBMs on SN and SE only have CCST printers. All of the ticket offices at SN and SE only have CCST printers. All of the ticket machines (other than the Gatwick Airport and Luton Airport trial machines) at SN and SE only have CCST printers. So thankfully these two TOCs are the only sensible ones who have kept 100% CCST tickets. I hope it stays that way.

GTR themselves have a strange approach to e-ticketing, even when it doesn't involve TfL. There are plenty of examples like a return being available as an e-ticket, but a single as CCST only. Lots of journeys to smaller metro stations are CCST only from when these stations didn't have barcode readers. Advances involving ungated stations or stations not managed by GTR are also paper only.

SE were once completely opposed to e-tickets then did a U turn.

 

[Travelmonkey]

I know on the regional lines EMR guards have bog roll ticket printers, same as when I get my ticket from the ticket offices of Avanti or WMT stations, they definitely don't last as long.

 

[Transilien]

E-tickets (apart for inter-city journeys) seem like a really unnecessary technology, when contactless could work a lot better for regular turn-up and go journeys and be more simple compared to paper or e-tickets. This technology has been around for years, longer than e-tickets and I don't think it would be much of a challenge for the Railway to implement it on a larger scale than just around London.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2024 ==

Also, barcodes are harder to scan than the simplicity of just tapping a card on a reader.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Pay As You Go is fine for suburban areas, but no use for long-distance journeys.

Say you tap in on the East Mids gateline at St Pancras. What should the entry charge be? How about the maximum fare should you fail to tap out at somewhere like Sheffield, which isn't gated?

 

[ChrisC]

A few years ago I was sold a 4 days in 8 Explore North and Mid Wales Pass at Crewe and this was issued as a large paper bog roll ticket. Incidentally that was in the days when that rover was available at a more reasonable price and included almost all buses on all 8 days.

I folded the ticket and stored it in one of those small blue plastic wallets along with my railcard. It was during a period of very hot weather and I did mainly keep it the pocket of my jeans. After a few days use the ticket began to stick to the clear plastic of the wallet and some of the ink came off of the ticket onto the plastic.

 

[Mainline421]

Pay As You Go is fine for suburban areas, but no use for long-distance journeys.

Say you tap in on the East Mids gateline at St Pancras. What should the entry charge be? How about the maximum fare should you fail to tap out at somewhere like Sheffield, which isn't gated?

You can already tap in at Exeter and tap out in London, the Netherlands has national pay as you go. Contactless is way better technology for all journeys whether "Long-distance" or not.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Are they biodegradable / recyclable ??

Yes unlike CCST, theres tickets have been around since January.

Contactless is way better technology for all journeys whether "Long-distance" or not.

Absolutte rubbish IMHO people like to know how much they're paying for a long journey and what happens with reservations?

 

[Mainline421]

Absolutte rubbish IMHO people like to know how much they're paying for a long journey and what happens with reservations?

Reservations create way more problems than they solve in most cases. Prices can be checked beforehand and no one is suggesting pre-purchasing is abolished as option (it's certainly useful for sleepers berths etc.).

 

[Bungle965]

Reservations create way more problems than they solve in most cases. Prices can be checked beforehand and no one is suggesting pre-purchasing is abolished as option (it's certainly useful for sleepers berths etc.).

So you’re stating that all services should be unreserved, no matter the journey?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2024 ==

That seems to depend. I've usually had the traditional style from ticket offices in and around Glasgow but it's quite possible there's something different going on there compared to other areas of Scotland.

Glasgow Central now has 4 different types of ticket stock, depending on where you get your ticket from.

1 S&B TVM which prints white PRT
1 Cammax TVM which prints E-Tickets
ScotRail Ticket Office- CCST
Avanti Travel Centre- Orange PRT/CCST with small aztec printed