UK to the Continent by Sleeper Train

[signed]

Presumably Eurostar knows how many passengers from St. Pancras are continuing on ex-Thalys services

Where would they be going on E* Red? Nobody would take one from Paris to Brussels (it would be cheaper to just go direct to Brussels) and I expect that the one to Germany from Brussels would be quite small especially as those services on DB/NS from Brussels to Dortmund are likely way more frequent than E* which are more catered to passenger from Paris.

 

[zwk500]

I would imagine a fairly small percentage though.

At Paris, probably but at Brussels my experience is there's a reasonable proportion changing from Germany and the Netherlands (not necessarily Thalys/E* Red but DB and SNCB as well).

 

[RT4038]

At Paris, probably but at Brussels my experience is there's a reasonable proportion changing from Germany and the Netherlands (not necessarily Thalys/E* Red but DB and SNCB as well).

Post #268 did refer to travelling 'much further afield', which rules out most SNCB journeys, surely. I expect in Paris there are quite a number of onward journeys into the Paris regional area, but again I wouldn't classify that as 'much further afield'. What is a reasonable proportion in Brussels though, on average, taking all the E* arrivals from London onto Cologne and beyond, or to Luxembourg or Amsterdam not on a through train - 5%? And in Paris - 1-2% if that ?

 

[ABB125]

Post #268 did refer to travelling 'much further afield', which rules out most SNCB journeys, surely. I expect in Paris there are quite a number of onward journeys into the Paris regional area, but again I wouldn't classify that as 'much further afield'. What is a reasonable proportion in Brussels though, on average, taking all the E* arrivals from London onto Cologne and beyond, or to Luxembourg or Amsterdam not on a through train - 5%? And in Paris - 1-2% if that ?

I'd say at least 5% of Brussels passengers are connecting to/from Germany via Cologne, and another 5% to/from the Netherlands. Probably higher than that in both cases - just 20 people per London train is a bit over 5%.

Edit: late night maths malfunction! 5% is more like 35 people

 

[A S Leib]

Post #268 did refer to travelling 'much further afield', which rules out most SNCB journeys, surely. I expect in Paris there are quite a number of onward journeys into the Paris regional area, but again I wouldn't classify that as 'much further afield'. What is a reasonable proportion in Brussels though, on average, taking all the E* arrivals from London onto Cologne and beyond, or to Luxembourg or Amsterdam not on a through train - 5%? And in Paris - 1-2% if that ?

Apparently the UK's one of the main markets for the European Sleeper, although that's only once per night at most so not tonnes (I think a capacity of ~700?).

I wonder where UK – Continent ferry passengers travel on to most frequently beyond the obvious (Paris, Lille, Amsterdam, Rouen etc.).

 

[AlbertBeale]

I'd say at least 5% of Brussels passengers are connecting to/from Germany via Cologne, and another 5% to/from the Netherlands. Probably higher than that in both cases - just 20 people per London train is a bit over 5%.

Almost all my journeys from the UK to anywhere in mainland Europe start with a train to Paris or Brussels, as appropriate. And 90% of the time my final destination is not Paris or Brussels.

 

[RT4038]

I'd say at least 5% of Brussels passengers are connecting to/from Germany via Cologne, and another 5% to/from the Netherlands. Probably higher than that in both cases - just 20 people per London train is a bit over 5%.

E* train capacity is about 900 seats (750 on the old trains). Obviously not every seat is taken on each train, so say an average of 600 pax per train. 5% of that is 30 passengers. My observation is that in the daytime there would be double that transferring to 'much further afield' destinations, but the late afternoon and evening trains arriving in Brussels - where there is little or no connection to 'much further afield' - this would be only be a trickle staying overnight and continuing the next day. So 5% on average would seem about right, ( the existence of through Amsterdam trains probably having reduced this % a bit from earlier years?). Might be slightly higher?

Paris I would expect the % to be much lower due to the City and region being a much greater draw than Brussels, plus the inconvenience of changing stations to get 'much further afield' putting off all but the hardiest of passengers.

Almost all my journeys from the UK to anywhere in mainland Europe start with a train to Paris or Brussels, as appropriate. And 90% of the time my final destination is not Paris or Brussels.

Me too, but there are not (on average across the whole day) many of us on each train. Some trains at key connnecting times, which are quite possibly the ones we might be travelling on too, will have more than others.

 

[Magdalia]

Almost all my journeys from the UK to anywhere in mainland Europe start with a train to Paris or Brussels, as appropriate. And 90% of the time my final destination is not Paris or Brussels.

All of my Eurostar travel was a long time ago, but I was the same.

In those days it used to be possible to get Eurostar tickets to Brussel that were valid for onward travel to anywhere in Belgium, I don't know if these are still available. Once I did a day trip Christmas shopping in Brugge.

Paris I would expect the % to be much lower due to the City and region being a much greater draw than Brussels, plus the inconvenience of changing stations to get 'much further afield' putting off all but the hardiest of passengers.

The only time that I was heading to the South of France I changed trains at Lille. I know someone who does this whenever they visit London from the South of France.

Where would they be going on E* Red? Nobody would take one from Paris to Brussels (it would be cheaper to just go direct to Brussels) and I expect that the one to Germany from Brussels would be quite small especially as those services on DB/NS from Brussels to Dortmund are likely way more frequent than E* which are more catered to passenger from Paris.

I have used Thalys to Koln twice. I remember the change from/to Eurostar at Brussel being quite popular.

And one of those I went London-Paris-Koln. It was a long time ago so the details are hazy, but I think there were cheap tickets to Paris but not Brussel.

 

[ABB125]

E* train capacity is about 900 seats (750 on the old trains). Obviously not every seat is taken on each train, so say an average of 600 pax per train. 5% of that is 30 passengers. My observation is that in the daytime there would be double that transferring to 'much further afield' destinations, but the late afternoon and evening trains arriving in Brussels - where there is little or no connection to 'much further afield' - this would be only be a trickle staying overnight and continuing the next day. So 5% on average would seem about right, ( the existence of through Amsterdam trains probably having reduced this % a bit from earlier years?). Might be slightly higher?

You are of course correct - I suffered an arithmetic failure last night!

Personally I suspect it's a higher percentage, but obviously we don't have access to the data

 

[AlbertBeale]

All of my Eurostar travel was a long time ago, but I was the same.

In those days it used to be possible to get Eurostar tickets to Brussel that were valid for onward travel to anywhere in Belgium, I don't know if these are still available. Once I did a day trip Christmas shopping in Brugge.


The only time that I was heading to the South of France I changed trains at Lille. I know someone who does this whenever they visit London from the South of France.

I have used Thalys to Koln twice. I remember the change from/to Eurostar at Brussel being quite popular.

And one of those I went London-Paris-Koln. It was a long time ago so the details are hazy, but I think there were cheap tickets to Paris but not Brussel.

They are indeed.

 

[RT4038]

They are indeed.

The difference being that now they are offered as a separate (more expensive) fare, whereas at one time Brussels only tickets were not offered.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The difference being that now they are offered as a separate (more expensive) fare, whereas at one time Brussels only tickets were not offered.

Aha - I'd forgotten - how far back was that the case (when any London-Brussels ticket covered you for anywhere in Belgium)?