The 2024 US presidential election.

[DarloRich]

Ffs. You can't be going around shooting people you disagree with. Trump is a gigantic orange hemorrhoid but he is part of the democratic process and if you value that you have to accept that he takes part

 

[jfollows]

If I was a USA citizen I'd be voting for Trump, even though he's bombastic.

Biden has Parkinson's or similar, and as for the communist Kamala Harris...

I'm not a US citizen, but I wouldn't vote for Trump.

My husband, who is a US citizen, won't be voting for Trump. In North Carolina, because this is where we both lived last. I try and console him that his vote is "worth more" than in California, where he grew up, because there it's a given that Democrats will win. However I don't see North Carolina as being a close call this time.

Trump is a nasty, unpleasant, divisive and obnoxious person. I'm ashamed to say that I'm slightly disappointed that whoever took a shot at him yesterday missed.

I can not work out how, in a country of >100 million people, neither party can find someone more appropriate to stand for the job of President. Biden is a disappointment, Trump is terrible, and Harris is non-existent to me - why was she chosen 4 years ago if she wasn't going to end up standing now?

I think Trump will win, which will be good for just about nobody except Trump, but the Democrats have a lot of blame in this too.

 

[Purple Train]

Trump’s defiance as he was being taken away to hospital will win him the election. He is perceived to be strong and Biden weak.

Maybe, and I am glad that he seems to be doing well now. Part of me hopes that the Democrats' reaction to it - pulling all of their adverts and quickly sending messages of condemnation of the attack, and prayers for Trump's recovery - will take the sting out of the contest a little, and make it a little less ugly and personal. But the chances of that are somewhere between the square root of minus one and zero.

Unfortunately the lunatics are now running around social media claiming this was an attempted Biden "hit"

Of course. Anyway, if it had been an attempted Biden "hit", he would have immunity from prosecution, wouldn't he?

Of course it's nothing to do with their insane gun laws that allow nutters to buy ridiculously overpowered weapons then use them against people....

Come on, everyone knows that those gun laws are the second most perfect thing in the world after Trump, as long as they shoot bad people, of course.

Ffs. You can't be going around shooting people you disagree with. Trump is a gigantic orange hemorrhoid but he is part of the democratic process and if you value that you have to accept that he takes part

Absolutely. Well put. Which is what worries me around the rhetoric from Tulsi Gabbard, who said, "If Trump really was another Hitler, wouldn't it have been their moral duty to assassinate him?"

No. In the same way, you don't assassinate Putin (although I accept "democratic process" is the wrong term for these examples), or Xi, or Kim. Assassination is never the answer, however repulsive the crimes committed by the individual are. Unfortunately, America has previously taken an eye-for-an-eye-tooth-for-a-tooth approach to this, so, in a way, it isn't surprising to see that attitude replicated domestically. Was it on this thread where someone commented "loads of American films end with shooting the bad guy"?

 

[nw1]

No.

I generally agree in the vast majority of cases, even with dictators, but I am not so sure about Putin:

In the same way, you don't assassinate Putin (although I accept "democratic process" is the wrong term for these examples),

Even if this was done as a Russian inside job and brought an end to the war in Ukraine and improved civil rights in Russia?

 

[Bantamzen]

Ffs. You can't be going around shooting people you disagree with. Trump is a gigantic orange hemorrhoid but he is part of the democratic process and if you value that you have to accept that he takes part

Its being reported that the shooter was a registered Republican, just to make things even more weird!!

 

[AlterEgo]

If I was a USA citizen I'd be voting for Trump, even though he's bombastic.

Biden has Parkinson's or similar, and as for the communist Kamala Harris...

Kamala Harris is not a communist. What planet are you on?

 

[birchesgreen]

I'm not so sure. If this had happened like 2 weeks before the election then yes, it would have won him the presidency. But the election is 4 months away: That seems like ample time for the poll boost Trump will receive from this to die down, and also will give time for the Democrats (if they are savvy and organised enough, which I admit is doubtful) to turn the debate back to the gun laws that will have enabling the shooting.

If it was against a normal Republican then it would (to use an American sporting term) left the Democrats stumped, as the Reps would have tried to dampen down the fury and taken advantage of sympathy. Trump and his crazed acolytes likr MTG are doing the opposite and this is highly likely to alienate swing voters.

 

[Purple Train]

I generally agree in the vast majority of cases, even with dictators, but I am not so sure about Putin:

Even if this was done as a Russian inside job and brought an end to the war in Ukraine and improved civil rights in Russia?

The end does not justify the means. I agree that Putin needs to be defenestrated (not that that's the best word in relation to Russia) quickly, but using violence to do so means the moral high ground of the anti-Putin movement disappears. By that I don't intend to equate any assassination of Putin with the terrible war crimes he is responsible for, but he must be brought to account morally and properly. If violence is used against aggressors, then those same aggressors, who have normalised it, have won the argument against decency and morality, and that must never, ever be allowed to happen.

 

[railfan99]

Trump is a nasty, unpleasant, divisive and obnoxious person. I'm ashamed to say that I'm slightly disappointed that whoever took a shot at him yesterday missed.

I can not work out how, in a country of >100 million people, neither party can find someone more appropriate to stand for the job of President. Biden is a disappointment, Trump is terrible, and Harris is non-existent to me - why was she chosen 4 years ago if she wasn't going to end up standing now?

While many will agree there were better Republican candidates than Trump, and probably better Democratic candidates than Biden, your comment 'I'm slightly disappointed' is not good.

As DarloRich said, we can't go around (in democracies) behaving in that way.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

While many will agree there were better Republican candidates than Trump, and probably better Democratic candidates than Biden, your comment 'I'm slightly disappointed' is not good.

As DarloRich said, we can't go around (in democracies) behaving in that way.

10/10 for this comment. Exactly so.

 

[aavm]

Same atmosphere of hate by the left wing towards anyone who disagrees with them in America as here.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The shooter was a registered Republican. Make of that what you will.

 

[Busaholic]

Same atmosphere of hate by the left wing towards anyone who disagrees with them in America as here.

What you call the left wing in America is roughly equivalent to the LibDems in this country, though, and, as here, seems to be mainly obsessed with gender identity these days rather than the ownership of the means of production. In other words, fiddling while Rome burns.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Can someone explain why Trump is so opposed to assisting Ukraine? I've never understood his opposition.

Generally speaking, it's part of his 'against the establishment' rhetoric. Most Republican politicians support Ukraine, because they understand the basic economics behind it: the American military-industrial complex gets a big boost, they get rid of a lot of older weapons that are still perfectly good (but aren't earning money for the military-industrial complex) and so they get more money fuelled into their campaigns.

Where Trump is dangerous is that he wants to pull back American interests in much of the world. His views are broadly similar to a lot of working class people in the US too, who have no understanding of why the war in Ukraine affects American interests.

 

[JamesT]

Generally speaking, it's part of his 'against the establishment' rhetoric. Most Republican politicians support Ukraine, because they understand the basic economics behind it: the American military-industrial complex gets a big boost, they get rid of a lot of older weapons that are still perfectly good (but aren't earning money for the military-industrial complex) and so they get more money fuelled into their campaigns.

Where Trump is dangerous is that he wants to pull back American interests in much of the world. His views are broadly similar to a lot of working class people in the US too, who have no understanding of why the war in Ukraine affects American interests.

I do find it interesting how narrow the window is for the US foreign policy not to be attacked. If they keep out of conflict then they’re isolationist. But if they do intervene then they’re imperialists trying to force their views on the world.
Though we’re probably in a “I wouldn’t start from here” world, the US trying to withdraw now would just lead to a vacuum that other less friendly nations would fill.

 

[Darandio]

and as for the communist Kamala Harris...

Multiple times you've been asked to explain this one and seem to have avoided it. Please enlighten us?

 

[birchesgreen]

Multiple times you've been asked to explain this one and seem to have avoided it. Please enlighten us?

Well he is in Australia so you may have to wait until he wakes up!

 

[YorkshireBear]

For me that's the election sealed for Trump.

Agree with DarloRich, hate the man but you can't just go around shooting people you disagree with. Even selfishly because all it does it rally your opposition so it's self defeating.

 

[Bantamzen]

For me that's the election sealed for Trump.

Agree with DarloRich, hate the man but you can't just go around shooting people you disagree with. Even selfishly because all it does it rally your opposition so it's self defeating.

Just for info, the shooter was a registered Republican. So as hard as I'm sure they would love to blame the Democrats, it's one of his own that's taken a pop at him.

 

[nw1]

Same atmosphere of hate by the left wing towards anyone who disagrees with them in America as here.

Even though the person that did the shooting was a Republican?

It's Republicans who are dreaming up paranoid Democrat conspiracy theories, such as Biden ordering it.

 

[Darandio]

Well he is in Australia so you may have to wait until he wakes up!

Well yes, but they had posted multiple times in the thread since being asked!

 

[Gloster]

Just for info, the shooter was a registered Republican. So as hard as I'm sure they would love to blame the Democrats, it's one of his own that's taken a pop at him.

No, it won’t be hard for them at all. They will produce some convoluted ‘logic’ to explain how the shooter was inspired/ordered/paid by Biden to shoot Trump. If there is a wacky conspiracy available, they’ll use it, and if there isn’t, they’ll come up with one…or many.

 

[nw1]

I do find it interesting how narrow the window is for the US foreign policy not to be attacked. If they keep out of conflict then they’re isolationist. But if they do intervene then they’re imperialists trying to force their views on the world.

Perhaps it depends on the conflict. You could argue that helping Ukraine militarily, or being one of the Allies in WWII, is a good deal more moral than interfering in Vietnam (and condemning vast numbers of teenage Americans to anything from lasting mental illness to violent death as a result) or starting a pointless war in Iraq.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2024 ==

No, it won’t be hard for them at all. They will produce some convoluted ‘logic’ to explain how the shooter was inspired/ordered/paid by Biden to shoot Trump. If there is a wacky conspiracy available, they’ll use it, and if there isn’t, they’ll come up with one…or many.

Though unfounded consipracy theories would presumably not sit well with the more middle-of-the-road members of the electorate.

The Democrats are the ones behaving really quite well over this.

 

[gg1]

Even though the person that did the shooting was a Republican?

It's Republicans who are dreaming up paranoid Democrat conspiracy theories, such as Biden ordering it.

There's a degree of ambiguity around his political views.

A voter-registration record showed that Mr. Crooks was registered as a Republican, though federal campaign-finance records show he donated $15 to the Progressive Turnout Project, a liberal voter turnout group, through the Democratic donation platform ActBlue in January 2021.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/14/us/politics/trump-gunman-thomas-crooks.html

As with the numerous US school shootings (34 this year as of 25th June, quite possibly more by now), the major factor here is ridiculous US gun laws. In Britain someone with the shooter's profile (not in the military, no criminal connections) who wanted to commit a similar act wouldn't have been able to obtain the necessary weapon in the first place.

 

[skyhigh]

Well yes, but they had posted multiple times in the thread since being asked!

Same poster claimed in the UK General Election thread that the Lib Dems were "far right" and that "Labour are the enemies" and never further explained either claim, so I wouldn't hold your breath on getting any further thoughts....

 

[dgl]

If some people think Biden ordered it then they really are dumb, do you not think Biden would have employed someone competent!

Imagine if Biden had come out with a comment along the same lines, mobster Biden!

 

[gg1]

Same poster claimed in the UK General Election thread that the Lib Dems were "far right" and that "Labour are the enemies" and never further explained either claim, so I wouldn't hold your breath on getting any further thoughts....

Bizarre. I can imagine some people on the far left thinking a centrist party was far right, and conversely the far right seeing a centrist politician as a communist but how can anyone possibly hold both views simultaneously?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Just for info, the shooter was a registered Republican. So as hard as I'm sure they would love to blame the Democrats, it's one of his own that's taken a pop at him.

Also made big donations to Democrats so it's easy to turn it whichever way the propaganda machine wants.

 

[renegademaster]

I suspect most likely he had some sort of mental illness rather than a serious political conviction

 

[Purple Train]

Also made big donations to Democrats so it's easy to turn it whichever way the propaganda machine wants.

As far as I saw, it was $15. Surely that's not a "big" donation!