UK General Election 2024

[JamesT]

Regards Council Tax, I would like to see something done. I live in a 3 bed semi, with my other half, total of 2 adults paying full whack. The house next door has husband, wife, both working, with their 2 adult "children" both working full time. How is it fair that I have to pay the same as the 4 nextdoor.....

The last time someone tried to implement an alternative, it caused riots...

 

[Trackman]

A friend of mine - who is not a Tory, is still backing a hung parliament. So much so, he's put a bet on at the bookies. I wouldn't mind he's been in politics and we have some banter. I have pointed out in the past, my predictions have beaten his for the last four elections.

who are their opposition? A lot of random independents or is it eg SNP?

Well the answer was a rainbow collation to keep the SNP out, desperate times call for desperate measures.
I bet the Lib Dems would go to bed with the SNP to form a government (not that's going to happen).

The last time someone tried to implement an alternative, it caused riots...

Might be worthy of a new thread about council tax *blood pressure going up*

 

[WesternLancer]

SNP and Greens

Thanks - explains the context

 

[Gloster]

We can only hope that Starmer tells him to bog off. I don't mind quite so much outgoing PMs giving gongs to staffers, but elevating them to the legislature is crackers and needs to stop.

I am not sure if whether Starmer could directly reject those put forward for nomination or, if he could, this would be a breach of convention. The House of Lords Appointments Commission can object to those nominated, but I don’t think they can block them: Johnson nominated Peter Cruddas, the Commision objected, but Johnson overruled them. I think the only person who could actually refuse would be the Monarch, but this would definitely be a breach of convention and we have seen enough of those in the last ten years.

 

[Falcon1200]

The point is to tax some combination of wealth and usage of space.

Council tax is not however related to current income but to house value and wealth at a point in the past, in some if not most cases many decades ago. Circumstances change over those years, most notably when people retire and their income inevitably goes down; But their Council Tax does not!

 

[bavvo]

Council tax is not however related to current income but to house value and wealth at a point in the past, in some if not most cases many decades ago. Circumstances change over those years, most notably when people retire and their income inevitably goes down; But their Council Tax does not!

But then again they have the triple lock pension...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2024 ==

Well, my final leaflet tally is in.
Tory 2.
Green 2.
Reform 1.
Labour 0.
Lib Dem, around 1000, but thats because I've been out delivering them. However, there were at least 6 distinct leaflets, and 2 individually addressed letters during the campaign period, and several more in advance of the election announcement.

 

[takno]

Council tax is not however related to current income but to house value and wealth at a point in the past, in some if not most cases many decades ago. Circumstances change over those years, most notably when people retire and their income inevitably goes down; But their Council Tax does not!

The point is that it's absolutely nothing to do with income. It's wealth that's being taxed. I'm not particularly aiming to defend council tax, because it's a badly configured tax that doesn't really achieve anything, but I don't agree at all that it should be replaced with more income tax - that's just a tax on productivity.

 

[Falcon1200]

But then again they have the triple lock pension...

Not if they have retired before pension age!

 

[Energy]

The point is that it's absolutely nothing to do with income. It's wealth that's being taxed. I'm not particularly aiming to defend council tax, because it's a badly configured tax that doesn't really achieve anything, but I don't agree at all that it should be replaced with more income tax - that's just a tax on productivity.

Then what tax do you propose? Council tax isn't perfect but has the advantage of being almost impossible to avoid legally.

The problem for councils is that the large majority of their expenditure goes on schools and social care. Areas that have higher needs for social care are the ones that are poorer so they have less council tax income. As such councils with larger incomes typically have smaller expenses and those with less income have higher expenses. To 'fix' this the government provided grants to councils, which the current (for today...) Conservative government has significantly reduced. This is why the councils going bankrupt tend to be Labour ones in poorer areas.

It would be good to see social care provided by councils paid for by the government in full. Councils get a large amount of their income from government grants but as this has dwindled they are forced to reallocate council tax money where they are allowed to.

I think a council tax (which goes to parks, libraries etc.) and a council tax supplement (which goes to the government) is fair.

 

[dgl]

Not a newspaper of refute or one to normally agree with/believe but The Sun are now supporting Starmer, with tomorrow's front page reflecting that, "Time For A New Manager"

The Sun backs Labour Party saying it's 'time for change'

The newspaper says the Tories have become "a divided rabble" and need "a period in opposition to unite".

www.bbc.co.uk

x.com

x.com

(I'll do a quote when I'm not on the phone)

 

[jfollows]

The Sun always waits to ensure that it backs the winning party.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The Sun always waits to ensure that it backs the winning party.

Correct - however, I think it is fair to say the election is over. I would not mind betting some Conservatives may not even bother voting. To me now, it is about the size of the majority.

 

[Busaholic]

There are 74 Conservatives standing down and I would expect that at least some of them will be in ‘safe’ seats, if a such thing still exists for the party. I would be surprised if all of Epsom & Ewell, Maidenhead, Rochford & Southend East, Tunbridge Wells or Wokingham (or their successors) fell.

EDIT: It is 75 MPs, including one ex-SNP, but two others defected to Labour and are standing down, as are four independents who were elected as Conservative. One of the independents is Reigate and if they lose that they are deep in it.

Based on the recent council elections alone, I'd be amazed if either Maidenhead or Tunbridge Wells returned Tories, which is probably why Theresa May and Greg Clark respectively stood down. So that's one Tory ex-PM who won't get voted out!

Belatedly, the Sun has been forced to recognise reality and back Labour. That might just make the difference in a handful of marginal seats.

 

[Kaliwax]

Had an email from the SDP candidate today, basically said he's had a lot of letters from people in my situation, and he gave a really detailed and personalised response and attacked the Tories policy on welfare over the years, and things need to change. Green Party candidate and the SDP candidate both wrote to me giving me a very supportive and nice response.

 

[Cross City]

Regards Council Tax, I would like to see something done. I live in a 3 bed semi, with my other half, total of 2 adults paying full whack. The house next door has husband, wife, both working, with their 2 adult "children" both working full time. How is it fair that I have to pay the same as the 4 nextdoor.....

The numbers of people living in a house is correctly irrelevant for council tax purposes.

Doesn’t matter if there’s 2 or 6 people living in similar houses you still need to have a bin collected, your rubbish still needs to be sorted and recycled or burned, your taking up the same space as other 3 bed semis, you use the same local roads, you still need the same police and fire coverage, you use the same amount of street lighting, and you use the same pubs and restaurants the licensing and food safety service keeps in check.

 

[jfollows]

The numbers of people living in a house is correctly irrelevant for council tax purposes.

Council tax is reduced by 25% for single occupancy.
(It was reduced by 50% for single occupancy under the Community Charge!)

 

[StoneRoad]

Live in what was a very safe tory seat.
Looks like it will probably go to Labour. None of the other parties can come close.
So, tactical voting to get the tory out ...
Done postally this time.

 

[3141]

Council tax is not however related to current income but to house value and wealth at a point in the past, in some if not most cases many decades ago. Circumstances change over those years, most notably when people retire and their income inevitably goes down; But their Council Tax does not!

It was three decades ago that council tax was introduced. It was based on house values at that time, but not on wealth, because even at the point of introduction there would have been some people living in larger houses who were less well-off than others in smaller homes.

It replaced the Community Charge (often termed the Poll Tax) introduced by Margaret Thatcher. That had the advantage that everyone over 18 paid it - or were supposed to, but it could be avoided at least for a while, if you chose not to register to vote. A tax based on property is much more difficult to avoid, because property cannot easily be hidden.

Every alternative form of local tax has advantages one way and disadvantages in another. No government wants to grasp the nettle of reforming or updating council tax because of the stink that would be raised by those who lose out from it. Those old enough will remember how controversial the revisions to rateable values - the system that preceded the Community Charge - were when they took place every ten years or so.

Ideally, the government should carry out a simultaneous reform of what local government is expected to do and how it is to be funded. The irresponsibility of the media today makes that practically impossible.

 

[LYradial]

Well, in 25 hours it will be all over, you will all have voted for the person you think will best represent you.

when I was born Churchill was PM, i have voted in every election since I was old enough and it’s never made a blind bit of difference, the poor stayed poor while the rich or connected got richer.

I fear for your future and that of my grandchildren so will vote in their interests not mine.

aged cynic

 

[Gloster]

Well, in 25 hours it will be all over, you will all have voted for the person you think will best represent you.

when I was born Churchill was PM, i have voted in every election since I was old enough and it’s never made a blind bit of difference, the poor stayed poor while the rich or connected got richer.

I fear for your future and that of my grandchildren so will vote in their interests not mine.

aged cynic

Rather similar thought from me, although it was MacMillan and I don’t have any offspring. (And I have missed a couple of elections when I was abroad.)

 

[Royston Vasey]

I fear for your future and that of my grandchildren so will vote in their interests not mine.

aged cynic

That's the opposite of cynical!

And well said!

 

[LYradial]

Wasn’t it Macmillan who promised “jam tomorrow“, now they are all promising it, it just depends which flavour of jam you like best.

 

[GardenRail]

I struggle to understand people's thought processes. Maybe I'm looking at it very simplistically. But, agree, disagree, it's irrelevant, but the Conservatives were originally voted in. Now they have apparently lost a lot of support over not acting on Immigration and implementing Brexit, blaa Di blaa blaa. So, I get that people are annoyed with them for not fulfilling their wishes if that was your opinion. But why would someone with Conservative values, suddenly just vote for Labour, who will never act on fulfilling Brexit, and do anything about immigration. Then there's the Tax thing, why would a conservative suddenly sway left, effectively saying yes to more taxes.

 

[DarloRich]

I struggle to understand people's thought processes. Maybe I'm looking at it very simplistically. But, agree, disagree, it's irrelevant, but the Conservatives were originally voted in. Now they have apparently lost a lot of support over not acting on Immigration and implementing Brexit, blaa Di blaa blaa. So, I get that people are annoyed with them for not fulfilling their wishes if that was your opinion. But why would someone with Conservative values, suddenly just vote for Labour, who will never act on fulfilling Brexit, and do anything about immigration. Then there's the Tax thing, why would a conservative suddenly sway left, effectively saying yes to more taxes.

It is not clear what point are you making? Could you clarify? They haven't lost a lot of support over immigration or Brexit. They have lost support for being corrupt, incompetent, out of touch, simpletons who, amongst other successes, doubled peoples mortgages, crashed the economy, gave their mates billons of our money, oved "wine time Friday while the Queen sat alone at her husbands funeral and are happy to pump excrement into the rivers.

but yeah, Immigration and implementing Brexit, blaa Di blaa blaa.

EDIT - i lived in Rishi Sunaks constituency for many years. It is solid, old school Tory. Proper farming squirarchy. He has lost many of them. Some of them, FARMERS, are even voting Labour because they feel they have better farming policies! Even the NFU (!) seems anti Tory these days, If you have lost the yackers you are in trouble as a Tory! Of the 5 farmers i know in that area thankfully only one has fallen for the grift of Farage. The others just want adults in charge!

 

[Harvester]

Wasn’t it Macmillan who promised “jam tomorrow“, now they are all promising it, it just depends which flavour of jam you like best.

Thought he was most remembered for his ‘You have never had it so good’ speech!

 

[AlterEgo]

I struggle to understand people's thought processes. Maybe I'm looking at it very simplistically. But, agree, disagree, it's irrelevant, but the Conservatives were originally voted in. Now they have apparently lost a lot of support over not acting on Immigration and implementing Brexit, blaa Di blaa blaa. So, I get that people are annoyed with them for not fulfilling their wishes if that was your opinion. But why would someone with Conservative values, suddenly just vote for Labour, who will never act on fulfilling Brexit, and do anything about immigration. Then there's the Tax thing, why would a conservative suddenly sway left, effectively saying yes to more taxes.

That someone has made a vote for the Conservative Party does not necessarily make them a conservative.

 

[takno]

I struggle to understand people's thought processes. Maybe I'm looking at it very simplistically. But, agree, disagree, it's irrelevant, but the Conservatives were originally voted in. Now they have apparently lost a lot of support over not acting on Immigration and implementing Brexit, blaa Di blaa blaa. So, I get that people are annoyed with them for not fulfilling their wishes if that was your opinion. But why would someone with Conservative values, suddenly just vote for Labour, who will never act on fulfilling Brexit, and do anything about immigration. Then there's the Tax thing, why would a conservative suddenly sway left, effectively saying yes to more taxes.

The conservative government has been pushing very hard on a rather narrow view of Conservatism. Particularly in thw Home Counties

Brexit has never been a popular policy with traditional middle class conservatives, and the hard form we have been dragged through has been quite disastrous for many conservative supporters.

On taxes, the Conservatives have clearly put them up anyway, but at the same time they've cut public services to the bone. That isn't a view of government a lot of moderate conservatives subscribe to.

On immigration, you may believe that Labour will be less effective, but ultimately immigration figures under Labour weren't higher.

 

[Gloster]

Wasn’t it Macmillan who promised “jam tomorrow“, now they are all promising it, it just depends which flavour of jam you like best.

It is actually from Lewis Carroll’s Through the Looking Glass, and is rather intended to indicate that you won’t ever get any jam, it will always be ‘tomorrow’…and tomorrow it will be tomorrow’s tomorrow and so on ad infinitum. The reason why it is always tomorrow and never today varies depending on the speaker’s opinion.

 

[brad465]

If anyone is wondering where Jeremy Hunt has been all this time, he's been gifting tap water to the constituents in the seat he looks set to lose:

x.com

x.com

Brilliant news - the drinking water restriction for Bramley has been released as of 5 pm. Letters will be distributed to the impacted area overnight. Enjoy the tap water Bramley.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm currently very conflicted. This will be the first time I can vote and I definitely will.

I am in St Albans which is almost certainly going to be a Lib Dem hold. We've had plenty of campaign material delivered with the most from Lib Dems, and I only have positive things to say about the current MP (unlike the last pre-2019 one, Anne Main, who messed up a visit to my school before my time there and opposed same-sex marriage).

I broadly support the Lib Dems manifesto but it does not go far enough on climate change which is my most important issue. So I'm inclined to look elsewhere.

Another St Albans voter here. If you are looking for a party that has exactly the policies you want, you will have either a long wait or be very lucky. I learned a while ago that voting was about choosing the party who had policies that you disagreed with the least. Also, voting for a candidate who you could look in the eye and trust was at least trying to do the right thing for the country and consituents (which, in my experience of meeting several hundred MPs, a significant majority are). As you said, the previous St Albans MP failed badly on the latter measure (her most notable speech in 14 years as an MP was about dog poo).

My vote is already in, but if I were you I would vote LD mostly because their policies align most closely to yours, and partly because Daisy Cooper will be a decent and hard working MP.