South Wales 'Metro' updates

[WelshBluebird]

To be fair, Maesteg isn't the only part of the South Wales area that has a significant problem with anti social behaviour. There's a reason ATW (and TfW since) decided to put security guards on trains north of Pontypridd. The reasons are not for this thread, but suffice to say there's a reason why such anti social behaviour often occurs more in areas of deprivation and improving connections to places of employment (even if that is just Cardiff) can only be a good thing. This is coming from someone who grew up in the area and left as soon as I could!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

ice? Is that some young person slang? Or something that only happens during cretin atmospheric conditions?

No I meant train not ice sorry have changed, it was late and I’d just got back from hockey training so was tired

 

[takno]

ice? Is that some young person slang? Or something that only happens during cretin atmospheric conditions?

Got to hate those cretin atmospheric conditions. Brings all sorts out

 

[Krokodil]

I think the service will be most useful for passengers changing at Newport for destinations further east and north

When Caerphilly Tunnel was closed for engineering works BR used to send some of the buses to Newport instead of Cardiff. The shops were shut so most travellers on Sundays were connecting for Intercity services.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Agree on both counts. Would it be so much more difficult to place them somewhere which could allow for future doubling?

The original plan was for a passing loop at Rhiwbina, this is all that's needed to run 4tph apparently. The rest of the line can remain singled.

 

[John R]

Whilst discussing the Coryton branch, is there any progress in the resiting of Velindre hospital, and the associated plans to extend the branch to it?

 

[CardiffKid]

Whilst discussing the Coryton branch, is there any progress in the resiting of Velindre hospital, and the associated plans to extend the branch to it?

Hospital is being built: https://www.barryanddistrictnews.co.uk/news/23847247.campaigners-angry-impact-new-velindre-hospital/

Not heard anything new about a rail link though.

 

[John R]

Thanks @PaulHarding150.

For info, the following news item from Dec 2021 shows that the Welsh Government was still talking about the extension then, though obviously a lot of water has flown under the bridge since then, particularly with regard to cost over-runs.

Uncertain future for current Velindre site once the new cancer hospital is built

THE current site of a cancer hospital in north Cardiff is facing an uncertain future after its replacement is built.

www.southwalesargus.co.uk

Another question is how the railway could be extended from Coryton station, along the railway cutting north of the meadows, with a new station built next to the planned hospital. A map in the masterplan shows a proposed railway extension running along the old railway cutting. This line could eventually cross the Taff river and link with the railway at Radyr.

The new Velindre train station is expected to open in spring 2025, according to the Welsh Government. It’s unclear when the link further along to the Radyr line would be completed, but this could see a Circle Line service created around Cardiff, as part of the Metro project.

A Welsh Government spokesperson said: “Cardiff and Vale University Health Board are working with Transport for Wales on developing a proposal to extend the railway line from Coryton to a new station at Velindre.

“This is still in the early design stage at the moment, however it is hoped that subject to funding and consents any new station facility would be in place by spring 2025. Transport for Wales is also engaging with Cardiff council to consider opportunities for improved active travel links to provide better connectivity to the Coryton line and Radyr station.

Assuming that the patients and visitors for Velindre will also come from the wider catchment (ie some from the Valleys), it would seem to make an onward link to Radyr more desirable, though conscious that the priority needs to be getting the short extension from Coryton completed. But if it's all gone quiet, maybe the whole idea has been dropped?

 

[MrCheeseGrater]

The original plan was for a passing loop at Rhiwbina, this is all that's needed to run 4tph apparently. The rest of the line can remain singled.

They haven't left any space at Rhiwbina for a loop either, despite the extensive vegetation clearance works which left more than enough space to put the OLE cabling/foundations further away from the track.

 

[John R]

They haven't left any space at Rhiwbina for a loop either, despite the extensive vegetation clearance works which left more than enough space to put the OLE cabling/foundations further away from the track.

That does appear absurdly short sighted, as the extra cost would presumably have been minimal.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

That does appear absurdly short sighted, as the extra cost would presumably have been minimal.

True - but not really surprising given the current inflation in construction costs. I'm guessing TfW are value engineering everything at the moment.

While I think having 4tph on the City and Coryton lines should be a priority ahead, say, of the Hirwaun extension the real barrier to it is the Network Rail owned infrastructure between the two lines.

Until NR do something about increasing capacity west of Cardiff Central, a passing loop on the Coryton line is neither here nor there. Building one would open TfW up to the same kind of criticism as has been made of the lengthening of Valley Lines platforms in the early 2000s i.e building infrastructure with no guarantee it would be used.

I suppose a passing loop might make it possible to increase services betwwen Central and Coryton but that would leave the City line as even more of an anomaly.

 

[Topological]

Is it right that to add a passing loop they will need to redo the electrification anyway? I am not an expert, but if the points for the loop require different wiring then they may as well take out a whole section and put up appropriate electrification in the gap. That is even if there is a loop added.

I presume chopping the piles for the present electrification to allow track to be placed on top is not that hard in the overall scheme of things?

 

[positron]

It's a shame because with the new service pattern they could potentially get 4tph on the coryton branch and 6 on the Penarth branch (especially with the new set down platform there). But there doesn't seem to be anywhere on the coryton where they won't have to fiddle with masts now.

 

[John R]

It's a shame because with the new service pattern they could potentially get 4tph on the coryton branch and 6 on the Penarth branch (especially with the new set down platform there). But there doesn't seem to be anywhere on the coryton where they won't have to fiddle with masts now.

I’m not sure Penarth needs 6 tph. Could save a unit by just running the additional services to the Bay.

 

[positron]

Having been down the bay I'm glad to report that Butetowns platforms look a lot wider in person than photos or video do it justice.

The lack of tactiles down the bay is also because it's a very very clearly temporary surface it seems the track has been changed and as a result is higher than before so they've added a Harrington hump type surface while they work on the proper new platform surface.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2023 ==

I’m not sure Penarth needs 6 tph. Could save a unit by just running the additional services to the Bay.

They can't do that because coryton is flirt and the bay will be citylink only. I think given the amount of housing at Penarth it's very plausible that 6tph would be beneficial especially if it were to be extended.

Alternatively the other 2 flirts could be sent down to Barry but that would mess with timings and there might not be capacity (I don't know if Cardiff West even has capacity for 2 extras full stop)

 

[John R]

Having been down the bay I'm glad to report that Butetowns platforms look a lot wider in person than photos or video do it justice.

The lack of tactiles down the bay is also because it's a very very clearly temporary surface it seems the track has been changed and as a result is higher than before so they've added a Harrington hump type surface while they work on the proper new platform surface.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2023 ==


They can't do that because coryton is flirt and the bay will be citylink only.

Ah, good point!

 

[positron]

Also Caerphilly gets 6tph so it's not unreasonable to think Penarth should get the same (when you account for the wider area)

 

[Envoy]

I read that people in Caerleon (Marches Line just N of Newport) are campaigning for a station. This is of course still regarded as part of the South Wales Metro area - indeed all the way up to Abergavenny.

Caerleon is a most awkward place to get in and out of by road and of course has the famous Roman remains which would attract in bound tourists if the place was easier to reach.

It seems to be that a stopping service is needed at least as far north as Abergavenny - where they could perhaps use the abandoned platform on the east side as the terminal? Having a stopping service could perhaps mean the long distance trains going non stop from Newport to Abergavenny.

Caerleon rallies together for new train station in town

A packed meeting at Caerleon Town Hall this weekend gave a “clear-cut verdict” on a new train station for the town.

www.southwalesargus.co.uk

“Rail travel is becoming much more geared to leisure travel and Caerleon has the potential to become a heritage destination of international importance".

 

[John R]

I'm not entirely convinced by the "international importance" suggestion, when you consider that there are much more interesting and spectacular roman sites elsewhere in Europe.

But I'd agree that Caerleon is as worthy as a station as some of the places recently touted in the area around Newport, and probably much cheaper to build too. However, I think the point about a stopping service is pertinent, as there is a limit to how many stations TfW is going to want to service on its long distance services, and if the requirement is to introduce a stopping service then that will involve a substantial ongoing cost. Whilst there could be some fiscal benefit in speeding up the Manchester and Holyhead services, how much of a factor in the overall business case is a moot point.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes, claiming Caerleon is a location of "international importance" is rather a vain "delusion of grandeur" there. I've barely even heard of it and I live fifteen miles away.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Yes, claiming Caerleon is a location of "international importance" is rather a vain "delusion of grandeur" there. I've barely even heard of it and I live fifteen miles away.

That may say more about you than it does about Caerleon!

"International importance" is probably over-egging it a bit but it was one of the most important Roman military centres in the UK, along with York and Chester, and the remains are quite well preserved. It's the sort of place that is, perhaps, more for history buffs than general tourists.

Providing a station there would be the easy bit. The problem would come with how to provide a decent service without slowing down TfW's long-distance services by adding an extra stop.

 

[Krokodil]

Could do with a dedicated stopper on that route anyway, rather than having long-distance services calling at the likes of Pontypool (traffic from there almost entirely being to/from Newport and Cardiff).

 

[The exile]

That may say more about you than it does about Caerleon!

"International importance" is probably over-egging it a bit but it was one of the most important Roman military centres in the UK, along with York and Chester, and the remains are quite well preserved. It's the sort of place that is, perhaps, more for history buffs than general tourists.

Providing a station there would be the easy bit. The problem would come with how to provide a decent service without slowing down TfW's long-distance services by adding an extra stop.

Well, a regular stopping service to Abergavenny or (yes, I know it’s in England) Hereford might actually help speed them up. Add in stations at Llantarnam and Pontrilas for good measure maybe…

 

[Dai Corner]

Well, a regular stopping service to Abergavenny or (yes, I know it’s in England) Hereford might actually help speed them up. Add in stations at Llantarnam and Pontrilas for good measure maybe…

The priority seems to be a third or even fourth train per hour to Bristol Temple Meads though.

Is there line capacity for an hourly stopper Cardiff- Abergaveny/ Hereford?

 

[anthony263]

The priority seems to be a third or even fourth train per hour to Bristol Temple Meads though.

Is there line capacity for an hourly stopper Cardiff- Abergaveny/ Hereford?

Sewta did say there was along with a stopper to Chepstow

 

[athro]

Yes, claiming Caerleon is a location of "international importance" is rather a vain "delusion of grandeur" there. I've barely even heard of it and I live fifteen miles away.

Perhaps it's time to learn that because you haven't heard of somewhere is more a reflectuion on your your lack of knowledge rather than a delusion of grandeur. Or, as us older ones would say, the children only think they know everything.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Perhaps it's time to learn that because you haven't heard of somewhere is more a reflectuion on your your lack of knowledge rather than a delusion of grandeur. Or, as us older ones would say, the children only think they know everything.

Unpleasantness isn’t necessary
And I’m not a child, thanks, so please don’t patronise me. I’m not from here originally.

 

[John R]

Perhaps it's time to learn that because you haven't heard of somewhere is more a reflectuion on your your lack of knowledge rather than a delusion of grandeur. Or, as us older ones would say, the children only think they know everything.

We try to be a friendly forum, and given it's only your second message, a little more diplomacy in your comments wouldn't go amiss.

 

[Topological]

I have long thought that there should be some form of metro serving stations on the southern reaches of the Marches. With the proposed station(s) between Cardiff and Newport they provide more services for those too. There was a thread about how to create an Abergavenny terminator diagram and it was possible (using current infrastructure requires a Cardiffesque move to a siding then back out onto the other line.

I would not necessarily remove the Pontypool call from longer distance trains though, being able to get towards a train every 20 minutes would really help grow the rail market.

Not sure how much capacity can be provided between Newport and Cardiff, but at 4 tracks it should be possible to fit more in. Allowing multiple trains to serve the Cardiff platforms would really help, especially putting crossings in mid 2 and 3 so that the A and B halves operate fully independently would be nice.

 

[positron]

If Welsh government are serious about decarbonisation (and generally improving air pollution), then a proper 4tph service to Abergavenny including at least 1 new station at Caerleon really feels like a necessity. As others have mentioned it would allow for additional services to some of the new m4 corridor stations, and would fit in with the idea of the southern marches being part of metro.

That being said we might be slightly off-topic for this thread which I believe is specifically for construction updates. Might be worth a separate speculative thread for the future of the metro though.