TfW 175 shortages

[Merthyr Imp]

Where would TfW be without the elderly 150s still plugging away, day in and day out, on services that their designers almost certainly never foresaw them operating?

I remember in the early days of the 1502XX they were used on Trans-Pennine services.

I travelled on a six-car set (on 150250) from Chester to Manchester Victoria on what was a Bangor to Hull service in September 1987. and thought it was a bit of a come-down from loco-hauled Mk 2s.

 

[Anonymous10]

I remember in the early days of the 1502XX they were used on Trans-Pennine services.

I travelled on a six-car set (on 150250) from Chester to Manchester Victoria on what was a Bangor to Hull service in September 1987. and thought it was a bit of a come-down from loco-hauled Mk 2s.

I suppose given the door layout it would have made a good fit for high churn routes like the trans penine ones

 

[DelW]

I

I remember in the early days of the 1502XX they were used on Trans-Pennine services.

I travelled on a six-car set (on 150250) from Chester to Manchester Victoria on what was a Bangor to Hull service in September 1987. and thought it was a bit of a come-down from loco-hauled Mk 2s.

I must admit I'm surprised that BR used them on as long a run as that. Maybe they were a stop gap until something better was available, or maybe it's just a reminder that things weren't always better in the "old days"!

 

[TDK]

I've no idea how 175s work (or more to the point don't!) but wouldn't the TMS alert the train crew in advance about it detecting low fuel levels?

Yes, it does, but unfortunately logistics is a problem getting a unit on for fuel.

 

[Jez]

A quick look at RTT and I think 9 of the 175s are in service today.

But of these 9 that are in service, one is on Maesteg (175109) and one on the Pembroke Dock branch line! (175116)

 

[sd0733]

A quick look at RTT and I think 9 of the 175s are in service today.

But of these 9 that are in service, one is on Maesteg (175109) and one on the Pembroke Dock branch line! (175116)

Edited*
There are 9 booked diagrams, which at the start of the day Were pretty much running on diagram but since then there seems to have been a lot of swaps.

 

[Anonymous10]

A quick look at RTT and I think 9 of the 175s are in service today.

But of these 9 that are in service, one is on Maesteg (175109) and one on the Pembroke Dock branch line! (175116)

Suppose it's possible there was an issue with a unit earlier today, and 175116 was all they had to send on it. It also might finish somewhere useful for tomorrow.

 

[Topological]

I am not sure how I feel about calling Maesteg a booked 175/1 diagram when so many Manchester trains are 150. Surely the Maesteg is only booked 175 because the Manchester is booked for something better?

Certainly not seeing anyone from TfW explaining that the Marches trains are actually booked for 150 now. The line is still that the 150s are substituting due to the gap between 175s and 197s. But if the 175s are running then there is no gap?

I have a feeling they are keeping 175s in South Wales in case there are problems with one of them.

 

[Jez]

I am not sure how I feel about calling Maesteg a booked 175/1 diagram when so many Manchester trains are 150. Surely the Maesteg is only booked 175 because the Manchester is booked for something better?

Certainly not seeing anyone from TfW explaining that the Marches trains are actually booked for 150 now. The line is still that the 150s are substituting due to the gap between 175s and 197s. But if the 175s are running then there is no gap?

I have a feeling they are keeping 175s in South Wales in case there are problems with one of them.

Well in the original plans for the May TT the majority of Maesteg to Cheltenhams were to be booked 175. This was as well as all of the Manchester to South Wales (aside from those booked MK4) being booked 175. I believe around 14 diagrams were required in total for the 175s.

Since then they decided to keep 3 of the 170s which are mainly used on Maesteg but this still leaves them a bit short. It's especially annoying when you see a northern 150 is running a Milford to Manchester today that would be a lot better suited to Maesteg.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2023 ==

Suppose it's possible there was an issue with a unit earlier today, and 175116 was all they had to send on it. It also might finish somewhere useful for tomorrow.

It's a shame it isn't a hot summers day today as I'm sure a 3 car would be very useful for daytrippers to Tenby!

 

[sd0733]

I am not sure how I feel about calling Maesteg a booked 175/1 diagram when so many Manchester trains are 150. Surely the Maesteg is only booked 175 because the Manchester is booked for something better?

Certainly not seeing anyone from TfW explaining that the Marches trains are actually booked for 150 now. The line is still that the 150s are substituting due to the gap between 175s and 197s. But if the 175s are running then there is no gap?

I have a feeling they are keeping 175s in South Wales in case there are problems with one of them.

No Long term diagrams are like it but with the current fleet issues There are short term diagrams running at the moment, which change every week, with 150s to Manchester and 175s kept in South Wales, nobody wants that anywhere but there'll be reasons why they're put as they are for cycling units, fuelling, attachments/detachments during the day and a whole host of other reasons that nobody except the train planning team are privy to. Granted it does look odd but there'll be reasons behind it.
Today there are 3 separate diagrams to Manchester for 150s, one Is scheduled as a 4 car but ran as a 2 and another is booked 150+153 to get them to Crewe for the morning but there's also several substituting for 175s. There are only 9 175 diagrams left now.

Its far from ideal, nobody would ever say otherwise, a 2 car of any description on a Manchester is totally unsuitable for the vast majority of services.
The constant delays with getting 197s on the Manchesters really isn't helping matters. At least the Mk4 fleet now has 4 diagrams fully up and running Monday to Saturday from this week to make alternate Manchesters (other than 2 weekday departures)something bigger and better.

 

[Anonymous10]

Well in the original plans for the May TT the majority of Maesteg to Cheltenhams were to be booked 175. This was as well as all of the Manchester to South Wales (aside from those booked MK4) being booked 175. I believe around 14 diagrams were required in total for the 175s.

Since then they decided to keep 3 of the 170s which are mainly used on Maesteg but this still leaves them a bit short. It's especially annoying when you see a northern 150 is running a Milford to Manchester today that would be a lot better suited to Maesteg.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2023 ==


It's a shame it isn't a hot summers day today as I'm sure a 3 car would be very useful for daytrippers to Tenby!

Unless the plan is to run 3 cars to tenby through summer, they did that last year.

 

[Jez]

Unless the plan is to run 3 cars to tenby through summer, they did that last year.

Possibly. Although I doubt they would be booked 175. Most likely a 150.and 153 or 3 x 153s.

 

[Caaardiff]

There was a tree down near Llanelli blocking the line for nearly 2 hours so probably a lot of swaps due to that

 

[Anonymous10]

Possibly. Although I doubt they would be booked 175. Most likely a 150.and 153 or 3 x 153s.

Usually yes, but Pembroke dock normally runs off what's in Carmarthen so I suppose it depends what was in Carmarthen and what is working on the day.

 

[Jez]

There was a tree down near Llanelli blocking the line for nearly 2 hours so probably a lot of swaps due to that

That explains why so many West Wales to Cardiff services have been very delayed today.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2023 ==

Usually yes, but Pembroke dock normally runs off what's in Carmarthen so I suppose it depends what was in Carmarthen and what is working on the day.

Yes that's true. Some 175s do still go to Manchester but perhaps they start and finish their diagrams more in the South at Carmarthen and Canton rather than Chester/Shrewsbury at the moment..

 

[33017]

Suppose it's possible there was an issue with a unit earlier today, and 175116 was all they had to send on it. It also might finish somewhere useful for tomorrow.

It’s also possible 175116 is working a 3 car 175 diagram (which it is).

 

[Anonymous10]

It’s also possible 175116 is working a 3 car 175 diagram (which it is).

Surprised me, used to live in pembroke dock and even that time on a Saturday its rare to get a 175 so I just figured it was a accident.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

175103 (left) has developed a major fault on the 1129 Manchester Piccadilly to Swansea and is being swapped at Cardiff Central with 175109 (right) - 175103 will now run empty to Canton.

Image description: 175103 + 175109 together on Cardiff Central’s Platform 4a.

 

[Anonymous10]

View attachment 139173

175103 (left) has developed a major fault on the 1129 Manchester Piccadilly to Swansea and is being swapped at Cardiff Central with 175109 (right) - 175103 will now run empty to Canton.

Image description: 175103 + 175109 together on Cardiff Central’s Platform 4a.

Any news on the fault?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Any news on the fault?

Replacement 175109 is still sat at Platform 4 getting later and later as it awaits a missing guard.

Broken 175103 left in the direction of Newport, reversed and returned through the down centre freight tracks for Canton, bypassing the also very delayed 175003+175110 bound for Manchester Piccadilly. I’m sure it will soon be identified what the fault was.

Meanwhile, it meant four 175s at Cardiff Central at once - four separate ones until the two Manchester ones attached - which has to be rare these days.




Image description: Three 175s at Cardiff Central. Central Square offices including BBC Cymru are visible in the background. Images have been reduced in size to minimise members’ data usage.

 

[sd0733]

175004 has now left Holyhead running to Chester this morning. This leaves just 175001, 106 and 104 at Holyhead.

 

[Jez]

Of the 175's in service today only 108, 109 and 110 seem to be on West Wales/Cardiff/Manchester services.

The others that are in service seem to be on Holyhead's and one is doing Birmingham to Holyhead. Some of these seem to not be working a full diagram. e.g 116 replaced at Chester with a pair of 158s to go onwards to Manchester.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I know this isn’t the speculation thread but I consider this more of an update than speculation.

Central-region Operations Manager was stood by the 1630 to Portsmouth at Cardiff Ctrl today, and as no one was speaking to him at the time, he very kindly answered my simple question. “Are you getting TfW’s 175s?”

The answer was absolutely not.

Amusingly, when I said that was a shame, he said “No it’s not, they’re horrible,” and I thought that was a rather brave thing to say when he was stood by his busy table-less, armrest-less and aircon-less 165108 going all the way to Portsmouth. I know which I’d rather have



175009 is on Ebbw Vale today…

 

[Dai Corner]

I know this isn’t the speculation thread but I consider this more of an update than speculation.

Central-region Operations Manager was stood by the 1630 to Portsmouth at Cardiff Ctrl today, and as no one was speaking to him at the time, he very kindly answered my simple question. “Are you getting TfW’s 175s?”

The answer was absolutely not.

Amusingly, when I said that was a shame, he said “No it’s not, they’re horrible,” and I thought that was a rather brave thing to say when he was stood by his busy table-less, armrest-less and aircon-less 165108 going all the way to Portsmouth. I know which I’d rather have

View attachment 139312

175009 is on Ebbw Vale today…

It all depends on how he interpreted 'you'; as him personally and the routes he's responsible for or GWR as a whole.

 

[Jez]

175112 is on 1638 Llanelli to Cardiff.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

175112 is on 1638 Llanelli to Cardiff.

Forgive me, but could you explain the significance of this please? They've always been the standard stock on West Wales to The North services (this particular service was of course continuing to Chester until they temporarily split it to let a 197 do the second half) so I don't see what is notable about this.

 

[Jez]

Forgive me, but could you explain the significance of this please? They've always been the standard stock on West Wales to The North services (this particular service was of course continuing to Chester until they temporarily split it to let a 197 do the second half) so I don't see what is notable about this.

It hasn't been a 175 for some time, certainly not aware of any 175s working this service since the May Timetable change. Therefore it is significant enough to report it in this thread. Its usually formed if a pair of 153s or a 150 and yesterday was a single 153.

 

[Western 52]

It hasn't been a 175 for some time, certainly not aware of any 175s working this service since the May Timetable change. Therefore it is significant enough to report it in this thread. Its usually formed if a pair of 153s or a 150 and yesterday was a single 153.

Also notable is the outward working 1B95 1513 Cardiff to Llanelli is via the Swansea District Line. Not many chances to get a 175 along there now.

 

[The_Train]

I know this isn’t the speculation thread but I consider this more of an update than speculation.

Central-region Operations Manager was stood by the 1630 to Portsmouth at Cardiff Ctrl today, and as no one was speaking to him at the time, he very kindly answered my simple question. “Are you getting TfW’s 175s?”

The answer was absolutely not.

Whilst not wanting to open a can of worms on here, I remain confident in my belief that the 175s will end up with Chiltern

 

[Jez]

Also notable is the outward working 1B95 1513 Cardiff to Llanelli is via the Swansea District Line. Not many chances to get a 175 along there now.

I believe there is an evening Cardiff to Carmarthen that also works along the district line Monday to Thursday (before December it started at Manchester at 1830) which may still be a 175. But yes probably quite rare now.