Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Looks a brighter yellow than the original. Not sure the coloured Go Ahead logo works, reversing it out in black would make more sense as it clashes a bit in colour.
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TfGM Bus franchising
- Thread starter Tim33160
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Looks a brighter yellow than the original. Not sure the coloured Go Ahead logo works, reversing it out in black would make more sense as it clashes a bit in colour.
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Leyland Bus
Member
There's no official livery has been signed off for singles yet, so these are jumping the gin slightly. I know it's just yellow but because of that, we've been told by TfGM to not paint any yet.
Wouldn’t it have made sense to do all the designs together?
Leyland Bus
Member
I'm saying nothing...
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
40710 has now returned from painting.
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WatcherZero
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Same shade, original launch event images were just taken on a wet and overcast day.
ic31420
Member
Changing the subject away from paint for a moment, do.we know what the franchising means for.services run by the smaller operators and inter county services?
Thinking about a couple that affect me, what about the 480 currently operated by Vision Bus?
Will that go yellow and be operated by GoAhead too?
What happens to vision's fleet operating that service? Will GoAhead buy the fleet and tupe the staff? It's a shame they've made that service far better with a more suitable vehicle and better more solid service.
Will stagecoach's Preston to Bolton 125 remain with them or will that be take over too?
Thinking about a couple that affect me, what about the 480 currently operated by Vision Bus?
Will that go yellow and be operated by GoAhead too?
What happens to vision's fleet operating that service? Will GoAhead buy the fleet and tupe the staff? It's a shame they've made that service far better with a more suitable vehicle and better more solid service.
Will stagecoach's Preston to Bolton 125 remain with them or will that be take over too?
WatcherZero
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Results of the consultation on cross-border permits.
Main points I picked out:
* Bus companies wanted a shorter period than 98 days for route change applications, this was rejected. Will remain 28 days for TfGM to make a decision then 70 days until a change comes into force to mirror the 70 day requirement for Traffic Commissioner registrations.
* Bus companies sought clarity on whether they still had to register GM routes with the Traffic Commissioner; Only TfGM required if the route is solely within GM and both if its a cross-border route.
* Operators liked the proposed registration form though those that provided rail replacement services thought that specifying the type and capacity of the vehicle that would be used was onerous. TfGM agreed to produce a simplified form for short notice registrations though the vehicles will still need to meet the minimum quality standards.
* Operators couldnt agree on how long a permit should last (proposal is upto 5 years at end of franchise period) one operator suggested 12 months, one 3 years, two thought they should be permanent, trade bodies wanted a minimum 5 years, one council wanted 7 years and another 5 years to align with their subsidised service contracts. TfGM are therefore offering upto 5 years at end of franchise date as standard, operators can request a shorter duration and one operator can take over anothers (for example a neighbouring council changing a subsidised operator) by using the simplified renewal form (and £65 fee) rather than the new service registration form (and £160 fee), neighbouring councils subsidised services could also apply for cross-border permits of upto 8 years which arent affected by franchise renewal dates.
* On bus fares and ticket acceptance four bus operators agreed with the proposals, two asked for more details and one operator asked for the right to raise their fares every year even if the flat fare didnt rise. TfGM response: the specified capped fare has to be accepted by any service that operates in the area but operators are freely available to offer their own fares as well (e.g. cheaper operator only fares or higher fares for tickets bought outside the area). Operator reimbursement rates currently set by operator owned GMTL and can already automatically rise even if the actual ticket price doesn't.
* On service performance monitoring two of the eight operators who responded wanted limits on what performance metrics could be monitored on commercial services, all the neighbouring authorities asked to be automatically notified if a cross-border service broke its permit conditions within GM, some operators were worried they could be forced to provide extra frequency or longer operating hours if they were missing performance targets. TfGM response: all the services legally have to be monitored for national performance statistics and the Traffic Commissioner and DVSA may be informed of license breaches where necessary after speaking to the service operator, also agree to discuss poorly performing operator services with neighbouring councils. They cannot force an operator to put on extra services beyond that specified in their permit, they will however discuss ways they could improve performance if the route is failing.
Main points I picked out:
* Bus companies wanted a shorter period than 98 days for route change applications, this was rejected. Will remain 28 days for TfGM to make a decision then 70 days until a change comes into force to mirror the 70 day requirement for Traffic Commissioner registrations.
* Bus companies sought clarity on whether they still had to register GM routes with the Traffic Commissioner; Only TfGM required if the route is solely within GM and both if its a cross-border route.
* Operators liked the proposed registration form though those that provided rail replacement services thought that specifying the type and capacity of the vehicle that would be used was onerous. TfGM agreed to produce a simplified form for short notice registrations though the vehicles will still need to meet the minimum quality standards.
* Operators couldnt agree on how long a permit should last (proposal is upto 5 years at end of franchise period) one operator suggested 12 months, one 3 years, two thought they should be permanent, trade bodies wanted a minimum 5 years, one council wanted 7 years and another 5 years to align with their subsidised service contracts. TfGM are therefore offering upto 5 years at end of franchise date as standard, operators can request a shorter duration and one operator can take over anothers (for example a neighbouring council changing a subsidised operator) by using the simplified renewal form (and £65 fee) rather than the new service registration form (and £160 fee), neighbouring councils subsidised services could also apply for cross-border permits of upto 8 years which arent affected by franchise renewal dates.
* On bus fares and ticket acceptance four bus operators agreed with the proposals, two asked for more details and one operator asked for the right to raise their fares every year even if the flat fare didnt rise. TfGM response: the specified capped fare has to be accepted by any service that operates in the area but operators are freely available to offer their own fares as well (e.g. cheaper operator only fares or higher fares for tickets bought outside the area). Operator reimbursement rates currently set by operator owned GMTL and can already automatically rise even if the actual ticket price doesn't.
* On service performance monitoring two of the eight operators who responded wanted limits on what performance metrics could be monitored on commercial services, all the neighbouring authorities asked to be automatically notified if a cross-border service broke its permit conditions within GM, some operators were worried they could be forced to provide extra frequency or longer operating hours if they were missing performance targets. TfGM response: all the services legally have to be monitored for national performance statistics and the Traffic Commissioner and DVSA may be informed of license breaches where necessary after speaking to the service operator, also agree to discuss poorly performing operator services with neighbouring councils. They cannot force an operator to put on extra services beyond that specified in their permit, they will however discuss ways they could improve performance if the route is failing.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Is that the one that serves Affetside?
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I am not sure if this has been asked earlier in the thread but has a cost figure ever entered the public domain as to the administration costs of the Bee Network as planned against the incurred costs that were involved prior to this new system. Have savings been made by the introduction of this new system?
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WatcherZero
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To cost £134m more over the first three years in procurement such as purchasing fleets of electric buses and bus depots, administration and the lower capped fares (they were planning capped fares before the national system was announced).
Once set up administration and net operating costs to the local authority would be about £2m per year higher than before, meanwhile fare revenue taken from passengers would be about £70m per year lower in 2010 indexed prices.
Once set up administration and net operating costs to the local authority would be about £2m per year higher than before, meanwhile fare revenue taken from passengers would be about £70m per year lower in 2010 indexed prices.
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ic31420
Member
That's the badger.
First service is a tad too late to be more useful to me and there are a number of oddball changes to the route through the day that make it more complex.
Would be better for me if it came into Rammy and would give Rammy a direct connection to Bolton, albeit a bit all around the houses.
Speaking of all around the world services the B1 has recently been taken over by Rossos fleet of new minibus type buses.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Interesting that rail replacement is in scope, that's nuts. Far better that the railway specifies that.
Presumably they will. The operators just have to report what they'll be using.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Though it says TfGM quality standards must also be met. Which might mean more missing RRBs given that there's already a shortage?
johncrossley
Established Member
Don't they tend to use private hire coaches for rail replacement in that area?
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Yes we certainly get a lot of coaches, many from outside Greater Manchester, even for local replacements, I've seen ones from Blackpool running Wigan - Bolton, ones from Kendal running Manchester - Wigan, and more.
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WatcherZero
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Big coach industry locally, but TBH on my all my trips around the country Ive never even seen an actual bus being used on a bus replacement rather than a coach outside a transfer between city centre termini.
Stagecoach have certainly run rail replacement services for journeys within Greater Manchester. Although not (heavy) rail, Metrolink's rail replacement services are usually double decker buses.
WatcherZero
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Was a piece on North West Tonight with Go Northwest promoting driver recruitment for the Bee Network, hiring 300 additional drivers. They were making a big thing of their 'fighter pilot' like company uniforms and showed a doubledecker in a promotional recruitment livery as well as several other yellow painted buses being visible in the background of the depot.
The 125 will remain with Stagecoach (who are getting new E400MMCs) but will require a permit for operating within GM
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Is the 125 run by Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancashire from their Gillmoss depot?
cnjb8
Established Member
Preston and Chorley
stait.john
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39240 in Bee Network yellow now - next will be prepped for MOT then will re-enter service.
39238 has gone to Oldham for paint prep now.
39238 has gone to Oldham for paint prep now.
Leyland Bus
Member
Do we know if it's in amended livery or not?
At my end, 40760 has been completed, with 40758 taking its place. Also, following a front end bump, yellow 40747 is the first one retrofitted with the extra black.
py_megapixel
Established Member
Is the whole of Diamond North West fleet going to be yellow before the franchising scheme even starts them?
Not sure that's a great idea
Not sure that's a great idea
Ancelljb
Member
However, if there were not a significant number of vehicles in the Bee Network livery come September, similar comments would be made about the lack of impact. Surely it is better for buses (and infrastructure like bus stops etc.) to be 'Bee' ready for the start date.
Scotrail88
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Might be getting ahead but has any word of how the tranche 2 submissions went??
py_megapixel
Established Member
You're right. I suppose the ideal thing would be for all the branding to change at once, but when you're redoing an entire network that isn't feasible. I suppose they could transition to the new brand one route (or group of routes) at a time over several weeks, but that might be too operationally complex.
Goldfish62
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I understand we should find out in the next weeks.
winston270twm
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Not all of the current Diamond North West fleet will be going yellow & transferring to Go North West, some will be retained by Rotala for continued operation of Eccles based TfGM routes 150, 370, 371 & X50 who's current contracts run until Jan 2025. Rotala Group are also retaining the 25 newest Streetdecks (40818-20 & 40822-40843), 17 have already moved to Diamond Midlands, a further 7 of those are still currently operating out of Bolton (i.e 40822/23/25/28/33/40 & 43), plus some buses won't be sold to Go North West due to age etc.
Just to add to cnjb8's comment, it is the former Ribble part of M&SL run from Preston and what is now an outstation at Chorley. Chorley was the principal depot for the 125 until the old depot was closed (and the town network withdrawn).
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