I remember parking in there when I worked across the road in Templegate House. BR charged a lot less than NCP or the City Council!
Norwood Junction, I agree, is infuriating. You can arrive on the up fast to find your overground train waiting. But because the doors only open on one side, you have to trudge down and then up stairs, as you say.
The footbridge isn’t great, but the worst thing is access to Platform 17 which is absolutely atrocious. Even worse is that the opportunity to improve it was lost for ever when the hugely expensive Southern Entrance was created.
Part of the reason that is so bad is how crowded platform 16 gets. It would make more sense to shift the TPE services to one of the other pairs of through tracks, and use 15 & 16 for less busy services. Certainly the P9/11 island isn't exactly rammed all day with other services using it. Might make movements through the throat a bit more complex, of course.
Should have force SE to use their regular London Terminii. There are a lot more people to serve to the North of London than to the south. Also should have had some joined up thinking on HS1 with point work at Folkstone/Sandling to allow Kent High Speed trains to join and not have to travel a quarter of their journey parallel at slower speed and then some Up tracks off HS1 at Ebbsfleet.
This sounds an awful lot like inter-regional jealousy which really doesn't help anybody or anything. HS1 has been very handy for Kent additional junctions on HS1 weren't remotely sensible and extra tracks at Ebbsfleet have no real space to go anywhere. A new International station under Greenwhich would have been on it's own spur, so you'd have split the trains between termini and required another junction under London. All this to get a couple of extra platforms at St Pancras which while handy aren't exactly top of the list of priorities?
Eurostar's platform length means it needs the whole trainshed length, and it can't go much further east without knocking down the wall. So you'd have released no real space for EMR by banning domestic HS1 trains.
I’ve always seen large numbers of passengers getting off and on the domestic HS1 services there when I’ve used them to Kent, so more of a pale grey elephant than a white one perhaps.
It was meant to have "Regional Eurostar" which never even looked like happening and its "International" despite the fact it isn't. How it gets away with the name is unbelievable. Ot cost a load of money to build and St Pancras is 10 mins down the line with better connectivity to everywhere but Canary Wharf.
Politicians tried to sell the 'international' idea, especially for the Olympics, but Eurostar said from Day 1 they wouldn't be stopping there.
When I have got HS1 to Kent there is always a lot of people getting on and off at Stratford, similar numbers to using St Pancras - lot of people live in Stratford now, there are numerous destinations there, and it is very connected.
The Javelin services to Stratford are very popular, but you could have built the station to a much simpler (i.e. Cheaper) design if it had been only about domestic services from the start.
Don't think the half a train station was really what swung it. If HS1 hadn't been being built through there there'd have been some other plan for the passenger transport - we might have had Crossrail 10 years earlier!
Was it ever considered as a backup in case St Pancras was closed for some reason?
'Some other plan' might not have beaten Paris, compared to a significantly completed, fast, extra, line between central London, Stratford, and the P&R at Ebbsfleet.
It was a purely political project. the Security scanning areas have never had the equipment fitted. I don't know if international passengers have ever been set down there, rather than turning at Ebbsfleet.
Given how much of the Olympics wasn't actually at the Olympic park I don't think Stratford International swung it when the bid could have taken the quite reasonable option of running a special timetable to Stratford (regional), which they did anyway. Stratford also had the DLR and Jubilee Line extensions as part of the public transport elements of the bid. Other elements like the demountable or existing stadiums (good for greenwashing) and the sheer scale of the commercial opportunity provided by London in what were still economic rough times was probably a lot more important to the IOC than exactly which train lines were used.
None of which makes it a white elephant (= something fancy but useless). At worst, it’s misnamed and has too much future-proofing.
Which is correct. Although we actually live at Canary Wharf, which is inner London, we always (pre-Lockdown) found it more efficient, and far quicker, to drive to Ebbsfleet and park there, rather than take a convoluted Underground route, with luggage, to St Pancras. Recent accounts of overcrowding and a poor boarding experience at St Pancras only add to a wish for Ebbsfleet to return.
Would they have been enough, particularly as they were busy lines/stations already, before adding Olympic traffic - the fact that they ran the Stratford Regional option anyway suggests that it wouldn't have been.
I thought about mentioning it but thought it too far outside London. Could the EL be extended to it with maybe lower frequency. (I.E Most continue to terminate at Abbey Wood but some go to Ebbsfleet to provide East End access to HS1 without going to a Terminii).
I believe its protected in long term plans, but it would require totally rewriting the North Kent line timetable and rebuilding the infrastructure at Abbey Wood.
I agree about Crewe, particularly if not using the main through platforms 5 and 6.
Those criticising certain aspects of St Pancras should ear in mind:
I don't understand what is illogical or haphazard about Crewe. The platforms are numbered logically from East to West and there is a footbridge connecting them all at both ends of the station; if catching a connection I tend to find it easier to use the southern footbridge. Generally speaking, trains depart from the corner of the station that corresponds with the immediate direction of travel. The most haphazard thing about the station is probably the lack of dedicated platforms (or even confined to one island) for London and Manchester trains, with the platforming for these services being more dependent on the origin station rather than the destination. However, as neither are exactly "turn up and go" frequency this isn't really an issue unless there's a short notice cancellation or delay which would require passengers to change platform to catch the next train to their destination.
Crewe certainly has an air of feeling like bits added on 'as and when', particularly Platform 6's extension and the Stoke line bays.
Not forgetting:
I've never heard that, - how would it work, - ES requires a 760mm (ISTR) height whereas UK domestic would be something like 915mm? Unless there was a minimum width MML platform squeezed in on the western side and what is now P5 ES was slightly narrower.