TfL to scrap paper tickets

[Tester]

Platform tickets are basically an invitation to fare-dodge. Though I do think same-station exit should be free (not £1) provided it's only after a short period of time during which no realistic journey would be feasible (say 20 minutes), because that would save the faff of fixing things if one changes one's mind due to disruption, and would also allow people to walk through some stations e.g. Earl's Court where this can be convenient without a risk of them sneaking onto a train while doing so.

Melbourne, Australia, have long done this with their Oyster equivalent (Myki). If you exit a station within 15 minutes of entering it there is no charge (display shows 'Change of mind - No charge').

 

[miklcct]

Yes but say someone were to alight at Farringdon for Kings Cross, or any other core station. It’s been established upthread barcodes are apparently too time consuming for central stations, so what do people do here?

Isn't this reasoning only applicable to the Underground stations? TfL is installing barcode readers on the National Rail interchanges so Farringdon, Kings Cross, Tottenham Court Road, etc., all qualify as National Rail - Underground interchanges.

As a Scout leader in central London, there are problematic edge-cases for us too.

With the Elizabeth line now fully open we are likely to travel several times a year from Farringdon to Marlow.

This is a ticketing headache. Adults could use contactless but not Oyster. The Scout-age children have Zip cards which are good as far as West Drayton.

So paper tickets from London U1-6 to Marlow are needed. And there are no period returns so a weekend away is expensive.

Is a ticket from the opposite side of London cheaper for your children? For example, Stratford - Marlow off-peak return, starting short at Farringdon.

 

[Benjwri]

Isn't this reasoning only applicable to the Underground stations? TfL is installing barcode readers on the National Rail interchanges so Farringdon, Kings Cross, Tottenham Court Road, etc., all qualify as National Rail - Underground interchanges.

So why are we debating if they can accept mobile tickets? Surely this shows they are planning on accepting them for cross London as otherwise barcode readers would be pointless, as everyone would need to tap in.

 

[James H]

Is a ticket from the opposite side of London cheaper for your children? For example, Stratford - Marlow off-peak return, starting short at Farringdon.

Ooh - that's a good idea. Anyone got any other suggestions apart from Stratford? (Edit: I see the fare is the same from Finsbury Park / Kentish Town / E&C / Loughborough Junction)

 

[Starmill]

As a Scout leader in central London, there are problematic edge-cases for us too.

With the Elizabeth line now fully open we are likely to travel several times a year from Farringdon to Marlow.

This is a ticketing headache. Adults could use contactless but not Oyster. The Scout-age children have Zip cards which are good as far as West Drayton.

So paper tickets from London U1-6 to Marlow are needed. And there are no period returns so a weekend away is expensive.

In this case a slightly lower in price Zone U1 to Marlow ticket is available and would be valid for the journey from Farringdon. This should be available for online retail and ToD collection at £10.20 child rate, which is cheaper than the adult contactless rate of £12.50 off peak.

However, the suggestion made by @Bletchleyite of Family Travelcards will work out rather cheaper as an Adult may order a Family Day Travelcard at £25.30 plus Child Family Day Travelcards for £1.

 

[Haywain]

Ooh - that's a good idea. Anyone got any other suggestions apart from Stratford? (Edit: I see the fare is the same from Finsbury Park / Kentish Town / E&C / Loughborough Junction)

The same fare would appear to apply from almost all National Rail stations close to central London where the journey would involve a cross-London transfer.

 

[James H]

However, the suggestion made by @Bletchleyite of Family Travelcards will work out rather cheaper as an Adult may order a Family Day Travelcard at £25.30 plus Child Family Day Travelcards for £1.

I don't think this is suitable for a journey from central London to a destination beyond the zones (eg Marlow), though

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2023 ==

In this case a slightly lower in price Zone U1 to Marlow ticket is available and would be valid for the journey from Farringdon. This should be available for online retail and ToD collection at £10.20 child rate, which is cheaper than the adult contactless rate of £12.50 off peak.

This is fine for day trips, but if going for the weekend (out Friday, back Sunday) it's marginally cheaper to follow @miklcct's suggestion and starting short on a ticket issued from somewhere slightly further afield where an Off Peak Return is available.

(FWIW we would likely be using Family Railcards)

I can imagine the reaction of my fellow leaders when I tell them we're buying tickets from Stratford because it's cheaper!

 

[Haywain]

For the Family Day Travelcards mentioned by @Starmill above, you can buy 4 child tickets with each adult ticket. The idea is that you would buy them online and collect them to use on the day of outward travel in the wrong direction, effectively forfeiting the outward journey on one and the return journey on the other.

 

[Benjwri]

This is fine for day trips, but if going for the weekend (out Friday, back Sunday) it's marginally cheaper to follow @miklcct's suggestion and starting short on a ticket issued from somewhere slightly further afield where an Off Peak Return is available.

Would be cautious of doing this, I can imagine you may get trouble at the Farringdon gateline from the TfL employees.

 

[James H]

For the Family Day Travelcards mentioned by @Starmill above, you can buy 4 child tickets with each adult ticket. The idea is that you would buy them online and collect them to use on the day of outward travel in the wrong direction, effectively forfeiting the outward journey on one and the return journey on the other.

Ah - understood. That's another great suggestion

Would be cautious of doing this, I can imagine you may get trouble at the Farringdon gateline from the TfL employees.

Yes I did wonder about that. But that shouldn't need to be a consideration really.

 

[Benjwri]

Yes I did wonder about that. But that shouldn't need to be a consideration really.

Might be better to get it from somewhere such as Finsbury Park then? The tickets are actually cheaper than the Stratford ones, and worst comes to the worst just claim you got a bit lost transfering from Thameslink and went through the wrong gateline.

 

[Haywain]

The tickets are actually cheaper than the Stratford ones,

They are the same price.

 

[Starmill]

Ah - understood. That's another great suggestion

Indeed so, thank you to @Haywain for adding the missing piece of information I left out. Obviously it would depend on the ratio of adults to children who were travelling and a comparison of the contactless fares for each adult. For example if a peak contactless fare were triggered by the touch in time the savings could be larger. Of course, with a larger scout group you may have more than four times the number of adults to children, I don't know.

 

[James H]

For the Family Day Travelcards mentioned by @Starmill above, you can buy 4 child tickets with each adult ticket. The idea is that you would buy them online and collect them to use on the day of outward travel in the wrong direction, effectively forfeiting the outward journey on one and the return journey on the other.

Is it still the case though (as per previous threads on this forum) that Family Travelcards can't be bought online (at least for GWR-priced versions)?

 

[Starmill]

Is it still the case though (as per previous threads on this forum) that Family Travelcards can't be bought online (at least for GWR-priced versions)?

Oh dear, that's a good question. The Chiltern website does specify how to buy the ones they've set online, but I can't find any mention on the GWR website at all of them, only their family advance tickets, which wouldn't be relevant here.

 

[Haywain]

Is it still the case though (as per previous threads on this forum) that Family Travelcards can't be bought online (at least for GWR-priced versions)?

If you can't buy them online, just nip up to Kings Cross and buy them at one of the ticket offices at Kings Cross or St Pancras*. And if you have more than 4 children per adult, use a mixture of Family Travelcard and other tickets to get the best overall price for the whole group.


*Other stations and ticket offices are available.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

*Other stations and ticket offices are available.

Including Farringdon.

 

[Haywain]

Including Farringdon.

A National Rail ticket office? I had no idea.

 

[James H]

Yes, in the newer of the two Cowcross Street ticket halls, built for the Elizabeth line. Not sure how good it is at keeping to published hours, though,

 

[miklcct]

Would be cautious of doing this, I can imagine you may get trouble at the Farringdon gateline from the TfL employees.

As Farringdon is a valid Maltese Cross station I expect the ticket will work the barrier. Can anyone confirm that?

Anyway, by buying a ticket from Finsbury Park there is no doubt about passing the gateline as using the street level is a perfect valid way to change between the tube and the Thameslink.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

built for the Elizabeth line.

I believe it to be a GTR office.

 

[Hadders]

I believe it to be a GTR office.

Correct. Although almost no-one buys tickets there. They struggled to sell me a single to St Pancras with a Gold Card discount!

(For anyone wondering why I was purchasing a paper ticket at Farringdon rather than using contactless it was the evening peak, chucking it down with rain and I needed to get to Kings Cross quickly. I had an onward ticket valid from Kings Cross and a Gold Card discounted paper ticket is cheaper)

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Although almost no-one buys tickets there.

I once had to queue 15 mins to purchase a ticket there so must be very much a peaks-and-troughs location.

 

[James H]

I believe it to be a GTR office.

What I meant is that it is in the newer part of the station constructed by the Crossrail project. But yes, it's a GTR-run office. (Albeit with TfL-style signage above the windows)

 

[Benjwri]

They are the same price.

Was comparing the Anytime Single and Return, the Off-Peak ticket is indeed cheaper.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

As Farringdon is a valid Maltese Cross station I expect the ticket will work the barrier. Can anyone confirm that?

It won't work, as the normal interchange is inside the gateline so no need. Break of journey for mag stripe "paper" tickets at LU gates has to be done by talking to a member of staff, though ironically a ticket stored on a smart card or validated using a bar code reader could be set up differently if enough effort is put into specifying the settings.

 

[miklcct]

It won't work, as the normal interchange is inside the gateline so no need. Break of journey for mag stripe "paper" tickets at LU gates has to be done by talking to a member of staff, though ironically a ticket stored on a smart card or validated using a bar code reader could be set up differently if enough effort is put into specifying the settings.

When I first visited the station 2 years ago I think the signage guided me to exit and enter for a change between the tube and Thameslink (at least I was sure that I used the OSI there to change trains).

I understand that break of journey on the LU transfer isn't accepted by the gate for a non-interchange, but here Farringdon is a valid NR interchange.

Last year I tried to use a similar ticket (one with Maltese Cross) at Kentish Town, which the NR station is gated behind the LU gateline. It allowed me exit but not re-entry as the cross-London portion was marked as "used" (I arrived by tube from London Bridge) while I was trying to resume my Thameslink journey and I had to argue my way to get in.

 

[sheff1]

I can't see cross London tickets losing the tube transfer but I can see through tickets to zonal destinations going. It's already cheaper to use contactless so why are we persisting with overcharging customers?

It's not cheaper for what used to be my most frequent journey. The question as to why TOCs are overcharging customers in all sorts of cases is probably for another thread.

 

[Haywain]

The question as to why TOCs are overcharging customers in all sorts of cases is probably for another thread.

They're not, it's that as with TfL's own tickets there's a premium for using a paper ticket.

 

[JonathanH]

They're not, it's that as with TfL's own tickets there's a premium for using a paper ticket.

There is a premium for using Contactless on almost all journeys from Redhill (after 6.30am).