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TfW 175 shortages

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Topological

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Seems to have been another bad day for 175s on the Marches. Of those that serve Swansea both the 05:36 and 06:38 were 150s then the 08:48 was cancelled due to a fault with the doors on a 158. Whilst it seems the 05:36 and 06:38 are too early in the morning to be worrying about capacity, both of the early morning trains pick up large numbers of college students for Hereford and Shrewsbury so are not pleasant experiences when operated with 150s.
 
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Jez

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Seems to have been another bad day for 175s on the Marches. Of those that serve Swansea both the 05:36 and 06:38 were 150s then the 08:48 was cancelled due to a fault with the doors on a 158. Whilst it seems the 05:36 and 06:38 are too early in the morning to be worrying about capacity, both of the early morning trains pick up large numbers of college students for Hereford and Shrewsbury so are not pleasant experiences when operated with 150s.
Indeed. And looking at RTT the 1103 from Milford was cancelled at Wilmslow due to the planned train being replaced with a slower train.

Ive used the 0638 many times as its a useful one for a daytrip up North and it often gets very busy both between Port Talbot and Cardiff with commuters getting on at places like Pyle and Llanharan. Plus between Hereford and Shrewsbury as you said.
 

robrymond

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I was shocked to see the 23.14 pulling into Crewe tonight to be the loco train and thought I'd get to ride it to Nantwich.

There was a 175 waiting at the very bottom of platform 6 which everyone had to swap onto, but even the conductor wasn't sure what was happening initially.
 

MP393

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I was shocked to see the 23.14 pulling into Crewe tonight to be the loco train and thought I'd get to ride it to Nantwich.

There was a 175 waiting at the very bottom of platform 6 which everyone had to swap onto, but even the conductor wasn't sure what was happening initially.

There is quite often a swap on that service, the Mk4 sets are not permitted to call at Wrenbury, Prees or Yorton. So when the Mk4 does end up on the 22:32 passenger service, instead of the usual empty stock from Manchester, it requires a set swap at Crewe.
 

SuperLuke2334

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I've seen elsewhere that many 175s are now parked up in Holyhead. Does anyone know what their situation is and what numbers they are?

Also has it been clarified what 175002 is at Landore for please?
 
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I've seen elsewhere that many 175s are now parked up in Holyhead. Does anyone know what their situation is and what numbers they are?

Also has it been clarified what 175002 is at Landore for please?

175 002 arrived at Landore on Saturday 4th March. It was moved here for an inspection by TfW, Angel Trains and Chrysalis Rail staff, in advance of the fleet going off lease later this year.

IMG20230307095940.jpg
 

Topological

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It's a shame to see it leave the fleet and to see the 175s leave in general but hopefully the 197s will be equal or superior to them
Indeed.

A real shame that this happens when the 197s are not able to take over either, meaning that 175s are sitting doing nothing whilst 150s run the Marches services.
 

Jez

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Indeed.

A real shame that this happens when the 197s are not able to take over either, meaning that 175s are sitting doing nothing whilst 150s run the Marches services.
From my understand the 175s will be withdrawn on a one by one basis as the 197s arrive. So one in one out. So it wont have anything to do with any 150s covering. 150s have been regulars on the Marches for months now even when TFW had a full fleet of 175s.
 

Topological

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From my understand the 175s will be withdrawn on a one by one basis as the 197s arrive. So one in one out. So it wont have anything to do with any 150s covering. 150s have been regulars on the Marches for months now even when TFW had a full fleet of 175s.
There is probably a statistic somewhere, but as a very regular user there did not used to be so many 150s. It used to be disappointing if a 175/0 turned up instead of a 175/1, though it was probably about 50:50 on that one. Now any form of 175 feels like a dream.

Either way there are working 175s coming out of service and there are 150s on the Marches and there is something sad about that.
 

Techniquest

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Either way there are working 175s coming out of service and there are 150s on the Marches and there is something sad about that.

Fully agreed with that, were you travelling when the 175s first started working out of Cardiff? Oh wow that was a transformation of things on the route! Such a step up from the 150s and 158s, and now the 175s are nearing the end of their time in Wales. The end of an era has arrived!

I too hope the 197s will be decent, I've seen a lot of mixed reviews so far but I'll comment on them after my first trip on one. That should be soon after they reach my neck of the woods!
 

Jez

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Fully agreed with that, were you travelling when the 175s first started working out of Cardiff? Oh wow that was a transformation of things on the route! Such a step up from the 150s and 158s, and now the 175s are nearing the end of their time in Wales. The end of an era has arrived!

I too hope the 197s will be decent, I've seen a lot of mixed reviews so far but I'll comment on them after my first trip on one. That should be soon after they reach my neck of the woods!
I used to travel to Manchester even before the 175s became common on the route but most of the time it was a 158 which i was happy with. I preferred 158s to 175s for a while when the 158s got refurbished around 2011.

I kept an open mind about the 197s until i went on one. I too had heard mixed reviews. But im pleased to say i was impressed. As long as they have more carriages than the 175s and Sprinters do when working on the Manchester-South Wales route then they should be fine.
 

Techniquest

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I used to travel to Manchester even before the 175s became common on the route but most of the time it was a 158 which i was happy with. I preferred 158s to 175s for a while when the 158s got refurbished around 2011.

I kept an open mind about the 197s until i went on one. I too had heard mixed reviews. But im pleased to say i was impressed. As long as they have more carriages than the 175s and Sprinters do when working on the Manchester-South Wales route then they should be fine.

Ah so you will be familiar with the old Wales and Borders timetable then, when one had to check the time of one's intended journey. The clockface timetable coming in was brilliant, although now we seem to have gone a little bit back towards checking the times of trains again. Especially for certain station pairs.

158s were indeed good, but the refurbishment made them even better. I don't miss those old seats though, I must confess.

Funny how things come back around though, I once flagged a 150 on an 'Alphaline' working vice 158 because I didn't want to endure the 150 from Cardiff to Hereford. I'm now back to avoiding 150s on the route! Quite, last week I purposefully planned my journey around allocated 175s between Hereford and Crewe. Still got a 150 frustratingly going north, but 175112 thankfully produced coming back!
 

geoffk

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The 175s are around 23 years old. Do we expect another operator to take them on?
 

Topological

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Fully agreed with that, were you travelling when the 175s first started working out of Cardiff? Oh wow that was a transformation of things on the route! Such a step up from the 150s and 158s, and now the 175s are nearing the end of their time in Wales. The end of an era has arrived!

I too hope the 197s will be decent, I've seen a lot of mixed reviews so far but I'll comment on them after my first trip on one. That should be soon after they reach my neck of the woods!
Yes, though in those days it would not be regular. Like Jez I was quite happy with the 158s under "Alphaline"

As long as there are seats, ideally tables for the laptop, but seats are enough, and its not possible for anyone to make a draught with hopper windows as happened yesterday morning, I am happy. Luggage space is a bonus for the Marches. The 150s sadly fail on more criteria than other stock and yet it seems to be all we get these days.

If the 3-car 197 offers more seats than a 2-car 150 then there is benefit. Sounds like a 2-car operating on its own would only score higher than the 150 on not having hopper windows and for having a luggage rack.
 

robrymond

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There is quite often a swap on that service, the Mk4 sets are not permitted to call at Wrenbury, Prees or Yorton. So when the Mk4 does end up on the 22:32 passenger service, instead of the usual empty stock from Manchester, it requires a set swap at Crewe.

What happens them, does it park for the night at Crewe? I presumed they only ran the Mk4 a couple of times a day from Cardiff up to Manchester so seeing it that late on seemed odd.
 

setdown

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The 175s are around 23 years old. Do we expect another operator to take them on?
Send them back to the Mid-Cheshire! Which would then allow more Northern services to be 4 carriages. One can dream...
 

craigybagel

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I was shocked to see the 23.14 pulling into Crewe tonight to be the loco train and thought I'd get to ride it to Nantwich.

There was a 175 waiting at the very bottom of platform 6 which everyone had to swap onto, but even the conductor wasn't sure what was happening initially.

There is quite often a swap on that service, the Mk4 sets are not permitted to call at Wrenbury, Prees or Yorton. So when the Mk4 does end up on the 22:32 passenger service, instead of the usual empty stock from Manchester, it requires a set swap at Crewe.
Since the Decemder timetable change it's only booked to run through to Shrewsbury on a Monday. Every other day it's a change of train at Crewe, regardless of whether it's a unit or MKIVs.
What happens them, does it park for the night at Crewe? I presumed they only ran the Mk4 a couple of times a day from Cardiff up to Manchester so seeing it that late on seemed odd.
Correct. It forms the 0630 off Manchester the following morning before going onto the Holyhead route.
 

Jez

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Ah so you will be familiar with the old Wales and Borders timetable then, when one had to check the time of one's intended journey. The clockface timetable coming in was brilliant, although now we seem to have gone a little bit back towards checking the times of trains again. Especially for certain station pairs.

158s were indeed good, but the refurbishment made them even better. I don't miss those old seats though, I must confess.

Funny how things come back around though, I once flagged a 150 on an 'Alphaline' working vice 158 because I didn't want to endure the 150 from Cardiff to Hereford. I'm now back to avoiding 150s on the route! Quite, last week I purposefully planned my journey around allocated 175s between Hereford and Crewe. Still got a 150 frustratingly going north, but 175112 thankfully produced coming back!
Yes I remember parts of the pre December 2005 timetable. I travel from Neath and seem to remember there being just 3 direct trains to Manchester each day Monday to Saturday (unsure about Sundays). I used to have to change trains at Newport most of the time which wasnt too bad but when the December 2005 timetable came in and we got an hourly direct service it was great. Now its reverted to 2 hourly its a partial step backward. But we still get 7 direct trains to Manchester Monday-Saturday (and strangely more direct ones on a Sunday now) which is still more than it was back then.

I seem to remember the timetable from Cardiff-Manchester was quite clockface before December 2005? Although I could be wrong as I used to change trains at Newport most of the time.

I had a fondness for the old style 158s used during the 2000s - but they were even better after their refurbishment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Yes, though in those days it would not be regular. Like Jez I was quite happy with the 158s under "Alphaline"

As long as there are seats, ideally tables for the laptop, but seats are enough, and its not possible for anyone to make a draught with hopper windows as happened yesterday morning, I am happy. Luggage space is a bonus for the Marches. The 150s sadly fail on more criteria than other stock and yet it seems to be all we get these days.

If the 3-car 197 offers more seats than a 2-car 150 then there is benefit. Sounds like a 2-car operating on its own would only score higher than the 150 on not having hopper windows and for having a luggage rack.
Yes i loved the Alphaline brand. The 158s were really good. I liked the Wessex trains version too.

The 197s are definitely a big upgrade on 150s and 158s. Im unsure how many seats there are on a 197 compared to a 150 but given the 197s should be working in pairs - either 2 x 2 carriages or 3 and 2 carriages together (5 carriages) hopefully it wont be a massive issue.
 
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Philip

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If it's '197 in-175 out', would this leave enough 175s to cover their booked workings from the May timetable? There are still something like 17-18 diagrams in the draft diagrams TfW provided the other week.
 

Leeds1970

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i remember traveling on the marches line with real trains - class 25s and mk1s supplemented by the odd class 47 then later class 33s and mk1s again supplemented by class 47's :D
 

Bevan Price

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i remember traveling on the marches line with real trains - class 25s and mk1s supplemented by the odd class 47 then later class 33s and mk1s again supplemented by class 47's :D
Plus Class 37s after the 33s had gone.....
 

Dan G

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The 175s are around 23 years old. Do we expect another operator to take them on?
As I understand it, between suffering with rust (poor manufacturing) and being a small fleet, it's unlikely any other TOC wants what are pretty good regional DMUs (I'd love to see them in the southwest!).

Otherwise being 23 years old is no particular issue.
 

Jez

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If it's '197 in-175 out', would this leave enough 175s to cover their booked workings from the May timetable? There are still something like 17-18 diagrams in the draft diagrams TfW provided the other week.
Think it was only when the 197s reached 15 it was one in one out for the 175s. So I assume there would need to be around 40 x 197s in service before all the 175s went?

There should still be 175s to cover some 170 diagrams but I've also heard some 170s may stay longer ?
 
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DelW

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As I understand it, between suffering with rust (poor manufacturing) and being a small fleet, it's unlikely any other TOC wants what are pretty good regional DMUs (I'd love to see them in the southwest!).

Otherwise being 23 years old is no particular issue.
I've always been pleased to see one turn up on my train when I'm in the Wales and borders area, I find the interiors very pleasant and comfortable as long as they're not overcrowded.

It's a pity some of the two car sets couldn't have stayed on as the Heart of Wales fleet rather than keeping the even older (and much more cramped) 153s, but I assume the hydraulic transmission and/or gearing would be unsuitable for a low speed service with lots of stops.
 

Mordac

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I've always been pleased to see one turn up on my train when I'm in the Wales and borders area, I find the interiors very pleasant and comfortable as long as they're not overcrowded.

It's a pity some of the two car sets couldn't have stayed on as the Heart of Wales fleet rather than keeping the even older (and much more cramped) 153s, but I assume the hydraulic transmission and/or gearing would be unsuitable for a low speed service with lots of stops.
153s have hydraulic transmission too.
 
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