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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

Mzzzs

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Could it be that acceleration is being limited to fit into the current timetable?
surely with a few units out the new units can easily outpace the older units causing them to turn up early.
 
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Krokodil

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Could it be that acceleration is being limited to fit into the current timetable?
surely with a few units out the new units can easily outpace the older units causing them to turn up early.
No, it's definitely not been instigated by TfW.
 

Bob Price

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Noticed over the past few day the ROG testing runs to Llandudno Junction from Crewe haven't been in the schedules. They seem to have been taken over by TfW and are in as TfW schedules. The Crewe to Shrewsbury training runs are also happening. I wonder if TfW are now just taking over the units, getting the miles on them so they can get them into service quicker.
 

el_lnrd

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This morning in Swansea, there was a 2 car class 197 on training run... Hopefully, it is ramping up and we will see them in service in the south soon...
Looked snappy on departure.
 

SuperLuke2334

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A 3 car 197 just passed Shrewsbury Abbey Foregate now heading for Crewe on 6Q98
197104
This morning in Swansea, there was a 2 car class 197 on training run... Hopefully, it is ramping up and we will see them in service in the south soon...
Looked snappy on departure.
I've heard may quoted for a couple of services to switch over but nothing confirmed on which yet.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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On 197 009 on Manchester-Llandudno service.
Ride is quite smooth over Chat Moss.
Seats a bit nicer than Northern's, but the extra height of the seat backs makes for poor forward views.
Power and WiFi working.
Usual trolley service, and the catering bay is unused.
Lots of Welsh announcements to bemuse the English passengers.
Unlike Northern's 195s, the PIS doesn't shout WARRINGTON BANK QUAY when you get there.
 

Jacob Porrett

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Another 197 drag tomorrow morning.
 

SuperLuke2334

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2+2 sham 1st? What's the point? Do it properly or bin it.
Quite agree, wouldn't be too hard to continue with what was planned! The 197s were always going to have a lower quality FC offering than the Mk4s, but this is a shock. At seat ordering is good however. I know 197113 has been delivered to Donnington so maybe we'll soon see what they have actually gone with.
 

craigybagel

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No they don't, the WAG wants timings accelerated. If CAF don't sort this out the projected timetable will fall apart.
Interesting. I thought the timings were getting increased through reduced stops rather than increased performance?
Super power mode? When I hear this I imagine the driver pressing a big red button which injects nitrous oxide into the fuel. :lol:
What is this actually though, do the sister 196 units have the same fast and furious feature?
I would assume 196s have it, given 195s and 197s do. It keeps the unit in lower gears for longer, instead of changing gear as early as possible, giving better acceleration at the cost of greater diesel and adblue consumption.
Ive heard may quoted for a couple of services to switch over but nothing confirmed on which yet.
I've heard similar but I don't believe it's been released publicly yet.
2+2 sham 1st? What's the point? Do it properly or bin it.

Quite agree, wouldn't be too hard to continue with what was planned! The 197s were always going to have a lower quality FC offering than the Mk4s, but this is a shock. At seat ordering is good however. I know 197113 has been delivered to Donnington so maybe we'll soon see what they have actually gone with.
Does it say in the full article that they're going for 2+2 in 1st?
 

Jez

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If Swanline is to operated with 197s from May TT change then i assume some Cardiff-Chester/Holyheads will be 197s to get the sets to and from Chester. Although 2 of the Swanline's still end up going to Chester (1505 from Swansea and 1638 from Llanelli) which would support the decision of using 197s.

This all depends on if they do indeed end up on Swanline. We may end up with 150s or pairs of 153s!
 
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SuperLuke2334

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Does it say in the full article that they're going for 2+2 in 1st?
I couldn't see the full article, but that was what was implied. I suppose we'll have to wait and see, it was just an assumption on our part though.
If Swanline is to operated with 197s from May TT change then i assume some Cardiff-Chester/Holyheads will be 197s to get the sets to and from Chester. Although 2 of the Swanline's still end up going to Chester (1505 from Swansea and 1638 from Llanelli) which would support the decision of using 197s.

This all depends on if they do indeed end up on Swanline. We may end up with 150s or pairs of 153s!
First services on the Marches is planned to be some point in April (last I heard) which lines up nicely with that.
 

Dai Corner

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I couldn't see the full article, but that was what was implied. I suppose we'll have to wait and see, it was just an assumption on our part though
As a subscriber I could. Make of this what you will


In 2018, TfW revealed that 14 three-car units would have First Class with more spacious seating, but at the launch event in Llandudno Colin Lea, TfW Rail’s Planning and Performance Director, told Modern Railways these units would now feature an ‘upgrade on board’ offering, similar to the ‘Business Zone’ Chiltern Railways previously offered. TfW has not yet decided on a name for this accommodation, which will not be replicated in the Mk 4 sets. Holders of First Class tickets will be entitled to sit in the Class 197s’ intermediate accommodation
 

craigybagel

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I couldn't see the full article, but that was what was implied. I suppose we'll have to wait and see, it was just an assumption on our part though.
As a subscriber I could. Make of this what you will
So no mention of 2+2 seating at all then.....

First services on the Marches is planned to be some point in April (last I heard) which lines up nicely with that.
They've really ramped up the 197 training at Crewe and Shrewsbury over the last few weeks which would tie in with that. I'll be very pleasantly surprised if they have enough traincrew ready for an April introduction though, especially as training at Cardiff has barely started.
 

Jez

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So no mention of 2+2 seating at all then.....


They've really ramped up the 197 training at Crewe and Shrewsbury over the last few weeks which would tie in with that. I'll be very pleasantly surprised if they have enough traincrew ready for an April introduction though, especially as training at Cardiff has barely started.
If they are ramping up training for Shrewsbury then they must have plans for the Marches soon as the other routes Shrewbury sign like Shrewsbury to Birmingham won't be having 197s for a good while yet or HOWL possibly not at all. So can't think what else other than Cardiff to Chester (Holyhead) or Cardiff to Manchester. Fingers crossed if Swanline is just Cardiff train crew and doesn't involve Carmarthen, enough may be trained for at least some diagrams for Swanline for the TT change in May.
 

Western 52

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If they are ramping up training for Shrewsbury then they must have plans for the Marches soon as the other routes Shrewbury sign like Shrewsbury to Birmingham won't be having 197s for a good while yet or HOWL possibly not at all. So can't think what else other than Cardiff to Chester (Holyhead) or Cardiff to Manchester. Fingers crossed if Swanline is just Cardiff train crew and doesn't involve Carmarthen, enough may be trained for at least some diagrams for Swanline for the TT change in May.
197s have been working training runs to Carmarthen over the last few weeks, and also between Cardiff and Swansea. Usually 2 sets at a time on 2 diagrams.
 

SuperLuke2334

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If they are ramping up training for Shrewsbury then they must have plans for the Marches soon as the other routes Shrewbury sign like Shrewsbury to Birmingham won't be having 197s for a good while yet or HOWL possibly not at all. So can't think what else other than Cardiff to Chester (Holyhead) or Cardiff to Manchester. Fingers crossed if Swanline is just Cardiff train crew and doesn't involve Carmarthen, enough may be trained for at least some diagrams for Swanline for the TT change in May.
Hopefully April for the Marches! Unsure on what services though.
There's a reason they're keeping 8 153s and it's the Heart of Wales lineView attachment 129292
must be a shame for the Heart of Wales residents who don't get a new train while the rest of TfW does.
I believe 153s are not long term though. I think it was said that eventually (after a reasonable period of time) that other stock would operate the services down there. Probably 197s.
 

craigybagel

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There's a reason they're keeping 8 153s and it's the Heart of Wales lineView attachment 129292
must be a shame for the Heart of Wales residents who don't get a new train while the rest of TfW does.
They're getting a timetable and capacity increase, and most of the regular passengers don't even have to pay to travel for a large part of the year. Under the circumstances they're doing pretty well
Hopefully April for the Marches! Unsure on what services though.
May seems more realistic. They can use the timetable change to fiddle with diagrams to make them easier to cover with 197s whilst the numbers of staff who sign them are still limited.
I believe 153s are not long term though. I think it was said that eventually (after a reasonable period of time) that other stock would operate the services down there. Probably 197s.
I don't think a timeline was ever specifically mentioned. I suspect the decision will be made if/when the 67s and MKIVs are replaced - a sufficiently large order to replace them could also be enough to cascade 197s to HOWL. But who knows?
 

SuperLuke2334

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Is it known yet when the last 175s will be removed from the North Wales-Manchester diagrams?
I don't think it's been confirmed yet. I do know that 175 withdrawals will begin once the 15th 197 enters service, due to be 017 once it moves from Crewe to Chester for entry into service work.
 

Techniquest

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The arrival of the 197s on services through Hereford is being very much looked forward to! Good chance I'll see fellow Herefordian @SuperLuke2334 on the first one that comes this way, I'll be keeping an eye out for the arrival of the new fleet for sure! Only a few more months until the May timetable change, I'm sure I will keep my patience going. The end of 150s popping up everywhere on the Marches route is coming! :D
 

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