South Western Railway contract extension

[gabrielhj07]

I haven't found a thread on this so far, apologies if there is one.

This article reports that First Group has received a two year extension to its SWR contract.

FG said:

“We welcome the contract extension for South Western Railway (SWR), which enables us to build on the achievements of the first two years of the contract and continue improving the customer offering.”

 

[nw1]

I haven't found a thread on this so far, apologies if there is one.

This article reports that First Group has received a two year extension to its SWR contract.

FG said:

"Continue improving the customer offering?"

Obviously the service is very much worse now than it was in 2019, though to be fair that is not SWR's fault, it's due to external factors. But even still, with more Government cuts to the railways threatened, "continue improving" sounds nonsensical - little prospect of that until the Government changes its attitude.

 

[zwk500]

"Continue improving the customer offering?"

Obviously the service is very much worse now than it was in 2019, though to be fair that is not SWR's fault, it's due to external factors. But even still, with more Government cuts to the railways threatened, "continue improving" sounds nonsensical - little prospect of that until the Government changes its attitude.

They can hardly say 'we'll kick back for 5 years until the government has cleaned up it's mess' now can they?

 

[fgwrich]

The rewarding of failure continues, though some of it is out of their hands. Cleanliness however, is not.

 

[nw1]

They can hardly say 'we'll kick back for 5 years until the government has cleaned up it's mess' now can they?

True, but I do dislike this sort of meaningless PR nonsense.

I'm not complaining about the extension of contract by the way, just the PR piffle.

 

[gabrielhj07]

The rewarding of failure continues, though some of it is out of their hands. Cleanliness however, is not.

I dislike rewarding failure as much as the next man, but I'm not sure what other options they have.

 

[zwk500]

The rewarding of failure continues, though some of it is out of their hands. Cleanliness however, is not.

Remember that even if they changed the franchisee the actual front-line workers and most of the management team would largely stay the same and be TUPEd over. I'm not sure the Executive directors and board members really have too much influence on the actual standard of presentation trains achieve, other than by hiring more cleaners (which the government would need to give permission for any franchisee).

 

[DanNCL]

Rewarding failure yet again…

SWR isn’t by any means the worst First group operated TOC, but awarding first any form of rail contract is effectively rewarding them for their failure on their two worst performing TOCs, TPE and Avanti.

It is clear that none of the willing remaining private companies are fit to run the TOCs. OLR should be mobilised ready to take over all TOCs. Of the two main companies left, one (Govia) defrauded the taxpayer, while the other (First) has proven itself incapable of running all of their operations competently.

 

[gabrielhj07]

OLR should be mobilised ready to take over all TOCs.

How long would such an operation take, and with that in mind is it not a job for GBR?

 

[12LDA28C]

OLR should be mobilised ready to take over all TOCs.

OLR do not have the capacity or willingness to do that.

 

[zwk500]

OLR should be mobilised ready to take over all TOCs.

Isn't the OLR at capacity for being able to manage any more TOCs. AIUI from previous threads the OLR is effectively a management consultancy on standby contract to the DfT. There aren't teams of experienced senior rail/transport execs sitting waiting in the wings to take over companies should they fail, and running a TOC is a full time job.
Equally, if you're calling in the OLR presumably the existing management aren't impressing and therefore you wouldn't want to TUPE them in as well.

 

[LUYMun]

Of course the DfT will give SWR an extension - they've been giving extensions to their 701s these days.

 

[43096]

"Continue improving the customer offering?"

Obviously the service is very much worse now than it was in 2019, though to be fair that is not SWR's fault, it's due to external factors. But even still, with more Government cuts to the railways threatened, "continue improving" sounds nonsensical - little prospect of that until the Government changes its attitude.

Service delivery has got worse, though, which very much is down to SWR. As fewer trains are running, performance really ought to be better.

 

[Gloster]

That nicely shoves any announcement of the next decision to beyond the election and dumps everything in the lap of the incoming government. Not a major headache, but still another thing to be dealt with at an early date.

 

[DanNCL]

How long would such an operation take, and with that in mind is it not a job for GBR?

OLR do not have the capacity or willingness to do that.

Isn't the OLR at capacity for being able to manage any more TOCs. AIUI from previous threads the OLR is effectively a management consultancy on standby contract to the DfT. There aren't teams of experienced senior rail/transport execs sitting waiting in the wings to take over companies should they fail, and running a TOC is a full time job.
Equally, if you're calling in the OLR presumably the existing management aren't impressing and therefore you wouldn't want to TUPE them in as well.

If the OLR don’t currently have the capacity then, as a matter of urgency, the DFT needs to ensure that the OLR is provided with the resources it would need to be able to take them all on.

Senior TOC management isn’t always the root cause of a TOC’s issues. See the difference between VTEC and LNER despite the retention of VTEC’s senior management team.

 

[JonathanH]

Equally, if you're calling in the OLR presumably the existing management aren't impressing and therefore you wouldn't want to TUPE them in as well.

Surely it comes down to the resources and constraints the existing management have. If they would have a few shackles removed by being OLR top execs rather than owning group top execs, they may run things better.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

SWR are far less of problem than TPE is. Anyhow on days when the infrastructure stays together they run a reasonable service but it is fair to say when things go awry SWR do a lot less to deal with the consequences on their passengers than you would expect from such an operator having almost sole use of its operating area.

 

[brad465]

That nicely shoves any announcement of the next decision to beyond the election and dumps everything in the lap of the incoming government. Not a major headache, but still another thing to be dealt with at an early date.

I was surprised they extended till just after the election, as if Labour pursue a renationalisation policy then a long extension would make this policy more expensive and/or unachievable.

 

[DelW]

"Continue improving the customer offering?"

Obviously the service is very much worse now than it was in 2019, though to be fair that is not SWR's fault, it's due to external factors. But even still, with more Government cuts to the railways threatened, "continue improving" sounds nonsensical - little prospect of that until the Government changes its attitude.

No doubt SWR will continue lots of things from their first five years:

they'll continue not introducing the new trains they promised
they'll continue not carrying out the refurbishments they promised
they'll continue not running the trains they refurbished then scrapped
they'll continue not improving the timetable with the extra services they promised
they'll continue operating the worst timetable since before privatisation
they'll continue running outer suburban 3+2 stock on longer distance services
and of course they'll continue driving passengers away....

And they'll continue getting their guaranteed profits courtesy of taxpayers funding everything.

 

[zwk500]

Surely it comes down to the resources and constraints the existing management have. If they would have a few shackles removed by being OLR top execs rather than owning group top execs, they may run things better.

I don't see the OLR being given any more freedom than private company execs, to be honest. Quite the reverse.

If the issues are drivers or unit resources, then changing the top team isn't going to make very much difference in the short run.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

No doubt SWR will continue lots of things from their first five years:

they'll continue not introducing the new trains they promised
they'll continue not carrying out the refurbishments they promised
they'll continue not running the trains they refurbished then scrapped
they'll continue not improving the timetable with the extra services they promised
they'll continue operating the worst timetable since before privatisation
they'll continue running outer suburban 3+2 stock on longer distance services
and of course they'll continue driving passengers away....

And they'll continue getting their guaranteed profits courtesy of taxpayers funding everything.

Those promises are now meaningless since it was moved to an NRC. My main issue, if i was DfT, is are we paying for 701s as well as all the existing stock? If they are then DfT need to very suree that SWR management are doing everything a competent operator of their standing is being paid for to get these units into use as the industry can ill afford to be paying twice for stock.

 

[12LDA28C]

If the OLR don’t currently have the capacity then, as a matter of urgency, the DFT needs to ensure that the OLR is provided with the resources it would need to be able to take them all on.

Why? That just sounds like full renationalisation to me and where has that been proposed?

Indeed Mark Harper at the recent Bradshaw address indicated that GBR would still happen and with an enhanced role for the private sector. Doesn't sound like he has any plans for more OLR involvement any time soon.

 

[DanNCL]

SWR are far less of problem than TPE is. Anyhow on days when the infrastructure stays together they run a reasonable service but it is fair to say when things go awry SWR do a lot less to deal with the consequences on their passengers than you would expect from such an operator having almost sole use of its operating area.

Indeed they’re not as bad. My argument was that rewarding First with any contract after their failure with TPE and Avanti is rewarding failure.

I don't see the OLR being given any more freedom than private company execs, to be honest. Quite the reverse.

If the issues are drivers or unit resources, then changing the top team isn't going to make very much difference in the short run.

They might not be completely free from DFT intervention, but two of three OLR TOCs (LNER and Southeastern) seem to be relatively free to get on with the job. And all three OLR TOCs have fared much better in the recent national rolling stock cull than many of the private TOCs have.

Northern is failing for much of the same reasons as GTR didn’t work properly to start with. Too large an operation with too many different routes having completely different needs. It really should be split into at least two TOCs, ideally three.

Why? That just sounds like full renationalisation to me and where has that been proposed?

Indeed Mark Harper at the recent Bradshaw address indicated that GBR would still happen and with an enhanced role for the private sector. Doesn't sound like he has any plans for more OLR involvement any time soon.

Why? Because it’s clear that the only companies still willing to take on these contracts are unfit to run them, for reasons I’ve already mentioned in this thread. Abellio are out of the picture, Stagecoach are out of the picture, National Express are out of the picture, and save for XC and Chiltern so are Arriva. Only Govia and First are left, and both have demonstrated themselves unfit to hold National Rail contracts.

If one seriously thinks GBR is actually going to happen, I recommend one takes a look at the wider picture in Westminster! They’re reshuffling deckchairs on the Titanic, not making serious plans to actually do anything.

 

[43096]

Indeed they’re not as bad. My argument was that rewarding First with any contract after their failure with TPE and Avanti is rewarding failure.

Quite how the chancers at WorstGroup continue to get contracts is anyone's guess. It's certainly not by providing an acceptable level of service to customers.

 

[Clarence Yard]

GBR will happen because it gives the DfT the level of control it wants. When Labour get in, all that will happen is that the DfT will give GBR instructions as to what will happen with the NRCs.

All the NRCs are separate contracts so you can’t punish an Owning Group in one contract if it fails in a different one. To do so would be illegal.

Actually the reason why TOCs are failing is more to do with how few train crew they had in 2020 and how the DfT has allowed them to move forward since. The Owning Group has very little to do with the situation - indeed they don’t make many decisions now. They just get fees for looking after the shop and following the DfT’s orders, however daft they may be.

As others have said, franchise promises were effectively junked when the DfT took over in 2020. The DfT took money off the TOC OG’s to end the franchises so what we have now are new contracts where pre 2020 actions don’t count anymore.

The TOC game here and now is to maximise your fees. Base fee is easy money and you get more in performance fees for keeping to the DfT budget and “Co-operating” with the DfT and NR than you do for running the service. They are contract performance fees, not exclusively train performance fees, so you follow the money.

If Labour do what they promised, they will just gently roll up all the NRCs as they fall due for renewal so in a very few years they will all be a thing of the past. In the meantime, the “club” that is OLR needs to expand a bit - there are former railway execs out there who could participate but they don’t currently get a look in.

 

[Gloster]

I am not sure if it still exists, but I believe that John Prescott made a change during the first Labour Government that a group could not walk away from just one of its contracts. It could negotiate its way out, but if it walked, it would lose all its contracts. I think this was when First had the North Western Regional Railways and it was doing so badly that there was speculation that First were prepared to lose their bond to be quit of it. Prescott’s intervention meant that they would have lost the very profitable Great Western one as well.

 

[Clarence Yard]

That cross default no longer applies but, in any case, nobody is doing any walking nowadays as the TOCs no longer carry any cost or revenue risk and the fees only go one way, towards the TOC/OG.

You would be mad to walk away from that kind of contract.

 

[godfreycomplex]

I am not sure if it still exists, but I believe that John Prescott made a change during the first Labour Government that a group could not walk away from just one of its contracts. It could negotiate its way out, but if it walked, it would lose all its contracts. I think this was when First had the North Western Regional Railways and it was doing so badly that there was speculation that First were prepared to lose their bond to be quit of it. Prescott’s intervention meant that they would have lost the very profitable Great Western one as well.

I miss John Prescott

 

[Gloster]

I miss John Prescott

You might miss him, but he didn’t miss that bloke with a mullet in Rhyl.

 

[Snow1964]

No doubt SWR will continue lots of things from their first five years:

they'll continue not introducing the new trains they promised
they'll continue not carrying out the refurbishments they promised
they'll continue not running the trains they refurbished then scrapped
they'll continue not improving the timetable with the extra services they promised
they'll continue operating the worst timetable since before privatisation
they'll continue running outer suburban 3+2 stock on longer distance services
and of course they'll continue driving passengers away....

And they'll continue getting their guaranteed profits courtesy of taxpayers funding everything.

You forgot some of the others like Sunday trains after 1pm being similar to Saturday, the extra 22,000 seats into Waterloo in morning peak, free Wi-Fi on all the trains, and Wi-Fi at all stations, or refurbished toilets on all trains (ever been on a 458)

...... all still awaited

• 22,000 extra seats into London Waterloo each morning peak and 30,000 extra seats out of Waterloo each evening peak
• a fleet of 90 new trains, providing more space for passengers on Reading, Windsor and London routes
• refurbished existing trains with charging sockets, new seat covers and refurbished toilets
• more frequent and additional services across the franchise
• faster journeys across the network; journeys to London will be:
  • 8 minutes faster from Southampton
  • 5 minutes faster from Portsmouth
  • 10 minutes faster from Reading
  • 12 minutes faster from Hounslow
  • 11 minutes faster from Salisbury
• earlier first and later last trains, including between London and:
  • Twickenham
  • Hounslow
  • Windsor
  • Reading
  • Epsom
  • Guildford
  • Portsmouth
  • Salisbury
• more Sunday services across the network, with many routes having the equivalent of a Saturday service after 1.00pm
• investment to make Southampton Central station a destination fit for the community it serves, with:
  • a new look entrance
  • improved retail
  • better facilities for passengers
• new delay repay compensation, including for delays of 15 minutes or more, and with automatic claims for smart card season tickets and advance purchased tickets bought in advance through their digital channels
• free wifi at all stations and on-board mainland trains
• investment in station improvements including:
  • refurbished waiting rooms
  • additional seating
  • improvements for step-free access
  • 60 electric vehicle charging points
• new smart card, automatically offering the cheapest walk-up single or day return fare
• new flexible season tickets, offering a discount for passengers travelling fewer than 5 days a week
• season, single and return tickets on smart cards across all of the franchise
• new discount for purchasing 12 consecutive monthly season tickets
• new student connect smart ticket for 16 to18 year-olds, offering one-third off weekly or longer tickets, and further term-time discounts for under 16s
• mobile phone barcode tickets will be available on the network for the first time
• better connections for the Island Line, and work with the Isle of Wight Council and other local bodies to develop a business plan and option for a more sustainable long-term future
• at least 1,500 new car park spaces
• over 40% reduction in energy use at stations and depots

First MTR South Western Trains Limited wins South Western franchise

Passengers to enjoy more space, more services and faster journeys as First MTR South Western Trains Limited wins South Western rail franchise.

www.gov.uk