"Smart" meters spamming from electric supplier

[DelayRepay]

Whilst I don't think my smart meter has changed my life(!), there are benefits as @jon0844 described above. I have saved money by noticing on the meter that consumption was higher than normal. I found I'd left the oven turned on after making my lunch. Without the smart meter it would have been running all afternoon. If they said they were taking my smart meters away, I would be disappointed. Personally I also see not having to crawl on the floor to take a gas meter reading each month an advantage, but that's probably unique to the location of my gas meter!

And I am quite happy to move to a flexible tariff. I think I would be able to take advantage of the cheaper electricity to do my washing, hoovering etc. If other people prefer to pay the top rate at all times, then that's up to them. Rather like water meters, those who have smart meters will end up paying less overall than those that don't.

And if the suppliers save money, that's good. It might mean fewer of them go bust and put more strain on all bill payers, who have to cover the costs through increases in Standing Charges.

 

[AM9]

It's so in the future they can hike the cost of using electric during so called peak hours to encourage people to use less electric during those hours.

Great for those who work from home and can do washing during the day etc.

They can do that anyway without smart meters. However, when the price is high, National Grid the ESO, have launched a plan to give consumers who actually do make the effort to limit their peak consumption a sizeable rebate which will also benefit all consumers by lowering the risk of peak time blackouts. All that is possible at zero cost to you. As @DelayRepay says though, you can do without* and just pay the higher charges, - it's your choice.

* Assuming that in the future, smart meters (operating in their normal smart mode) aren't made a condition of electricity supply.

 

[GusB]

Well exactly, smart meters are a classic example of "solving a problem that doesn't exist". Despite what the energy companies say, it really isn't difficult to read your meters once a month and email the readings to your supplier. So if smart meters offer no practical benefit to the consumer, why are the energy companies so desperate to push us all into having one? Little wonder many of us suspect them of having more sinister motives.

No it's not difficult to read your own meter, but the problem is that lots of people don't bother. There is a great number of people out there that still assume that it's the company's responsibility to read the meter when in many contracts it now requires the customer to supply regular readings.

These same customers are the same ones who are straight on the phone complaining about estimated bills being too high when, if they'd supplied readings like they're supposed to, they wouldn't get an estimated bill. This also has a direct effect on the monthly payment if they're on budget direct debit schemes.

There are some cases where a customer cannot read their own meter, either because it's out of reach or because of a disability, but this is taken into consideration and vulnerable customers can still receive regular meter readings where necessary.

Having a smart meter does away with all that faff. Obviously it saves on the cost of sending a meter reader out, but it could actually be saving the customer a considerable amount of money too.

To give an example, I once had a customer complain that her bills were too high. She provided me with a reading which the system rejected as being too low. She was able to provide a photo of the meter which confirmed the reading she'd given and corrections were duly made. It turns out that her son had left home to go to university but because there were no readings coming in, the system hadn't picked up on the drop in consumption. Not only did that lady get a hefty refund, the monthly direct debit payment also dropped considerably.

The opposite side of that coin is that some customers are receiving under-estimated bills, in which case they end up with a large debit balance and end up with a massively increased payment, and/or a repayment plan.

 

[JamesT]

All it does is give me an idea of how much I'm using, so if it's just the lights on it shows a little bar, but if the oven't on it shows a huge bar. Handy for checking if an appliance has been left on - if it shows a couple of bars then go round the house and check. So I suppose it's useful that way!

At my previous house we used to use it to work out when the oven was hot. The light on the oven itself that showed it was up to temperature had broken, but you could see on the meter that consumption was high as it heated up, then when it dropped it meant the oven was ready.

 

[swt_passenger]

All it does is give me an idea of how much I'm using, so if it's just the lights on it shows a little bar, but if the oven't on it shows a huge bar. Handy for checking if an appliance has been left on - if it shows a couple of bars then go round the house and check. So I suppose it's useful that way!

I just leave mine displaying the number of watts instantaneous usage, in all the time it’s been fitted I’ve never once investigated the cost display. As it’s in the hall I just glance at it when passing and know the expected value in watts to expect when I’m going up to bed - less than 50W - in case I’ve left something on that I wouldn’t see, such as lights in the garage.

 

[Howardh]

Here's a Q?

If you have a radiator which is on from 8am to 10pm, say at 20c, but you go out twice for a couple of hours - is it better to (A) leave it on so it doesn't have to warm up again, or is it better to (B) turn off, on, off and back on again? Thinking also when you return the room will be cold so need heating up which may take more energy than just leaving it?

Third option - (C) turning the radiator down but not off whilst out?

Think for efficiency I'd go for C and keep the radiator and room slightly warm whilst out. Could be wrong though.

 

[Trainbike46]

Here's a Q?

If you have a radiator which is on from 8am to 10pm, say at 20c, but you go out twice for a couple of hours - is it better to (A) leave it on so it doesn't have to warm up again, or is it better to (B) turn off, on, off and back on again? Thinking also when you return the room will be cold so need heating up which may take more energy than just leaving it?

Third option - (C) turning the radiator down but not off whilst out?

Think for efficiency I'd go for C and keep the radiator and room slightly warm whilst out. Could be wrong though.

The most efficient option would be to turn the heating off when you're out. As discussed earlier in this thread, the energy needed to heat the room back up is at most the same as the energy that would have been needed to keep it warm, and usually it is much less.

If you're out at the same time every day you could use a timer thermostat to have it turn off automatically a bit before you leave and come back on a short while before you return. Otherwise smart thermostats can supposedly help with this, though I have no personal experience with these

 

[DelayRepay]

If you're out at the same time every day you could use a timer thermostat to have it turn off automatically a bit before you leave and come back on a short while before you return. Otherwise smart thermostats can supposedly help with this, though I have no personal experience with these

I can turn it on and off via am app on my phone, is that what you mean by smart thermostat? Mine is set to turn off automatically when I leave the house (provided I take my phone!). I try to remember to turn it off manually about half an hour before I'm going out though.

I've got the option to have it come back on automatically when I'm on my way home. I don't use this though, I prefer to do it manually.

 

[Trainbike46]

I can turn it on and off via am app on my phone, is that what you mean by smart thermostat? Mine is set to turn off automatically when I leave the house (provided I take my phone!). I try to remember to turn it off manually about half an hour before I'm going out though.

I've got the option to have it come back on automatically when I'm on my way home. I don't use this though, I prefer to do it manually.

that does sound like one of the ways smart thermostats can work. There seem to be loads of different types that work in various ways though. But as I said, I don't have one myself and I have never used one. I'm much more of the strategy that the heating is off by default, and only gets turned on for a short burst when it gets actually cold. But I don't have central heating to begin with so the situation is very different than what most people have

 

[Busaholic]

There are some cases where a customer cannot read their own meter, either because it's out of reach or because of a disability, but this is taken into consideration and vulnerable customers can still receive regular meter readings where necessary.

All that applies to me. Reality though is that, despite the regular promises, I don't get visited (I'm in the centre of a town and never get a card saying 'we called' either.) In exasperation I have got a neighbour to read the meter for me, writing the reading down, but when I phoned the automated service they wouldn't accept it because it was too high!! I've emailed the reading too, but it's ignored.

 

[PeterY]

No it's not difficult to read your own meter, but the problem is that lots of people don't bother. There is a great number of people out there that still assume that it's the company's responsibility to read the meter when in many contracts it now requires the customer to supply regular readings.

My meter should be in the British museum. It's one of the old fashioned type where the dials go clockwise and anti-clockwise. I know how to read it but I have to be very careful.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My meter should be in the British museum. It's one of the old fashioned type where the dials go clockwise and anti-clockwise.

You not been pestered like mad over the years by your gas/electricity supplier (as applicable) to have it replaced?

 

[Cdd89]

I’m not impressed at a discount being offered to smart meter customers when I am not able to have a smart meter installed.

I’d suggest there ought to be an alternative discount scheme for this small minority, a bit like how customers who can’t (rather than won’t) have a water meter get an assessed tariff charge.

 

[sor]

You not been pestered like mad over the years by your gas/electricity supplier (as applicable) to have it replaced?

My parents' place still has a vintage meter, seems to be untouched since privatisation since it is marked property of the South Western Electricity Board and the seals are SWEB branded, not WPD. It has some very mechanical attachment alongside it which I assume is the time clock for economy 7.

Eon once offered a smart meter install but no one turned up and that was that.

 

[gswindale]

My parents' place still has a vintage meter, seems to be untouched since privatisation since it is marked property of the South Western Electricity Board and the seals are SWEB branded, not WPD. It has some very mechanical attachment alongside it which I assume is the time clock for economy 7.

Eon once offered a smart meter install but no one turned up and that was that.

A few years ago, I spent the day at home waiting for NPower (I think it was) to carry out a smart meter installation. Had a morning slot, so between 8 and 12. Got to about 12:15 and I rang up to find out where they were as I was getting a bit fed up of waiting.

Apparently the installer who was due to come had run out of meters, so had gone home! I did however receive £40 credit onto my bill.

The installation should have been carried out by Lowri Beck.

We remained without a smart meter until we signed up with Octpus about 18 months ago and they were somewhat more pro-active about it all.

 

[DelayRepay]

A few years ago, I spent the day at home waiting for NPower (I think it was) to carry out a smart meter installation. Had a morning slot, so between 8 and 12. Got to about 12:15 and I rang up to find out where they were as I was getting a bit fed up of waiting.

Apparently the installer who was due to come had run out of meters, so had gone home! I did however receive £40 credit onto my bill.

The installation should have been carried out by Lowri Beck.

We remained without a smart meter until we signed up with Octpus about 18 months ago and they were somewhat more pro-active about it all.

My mum had the same issue with NPower. Several missed appointment and ended up giving up.

I had no such problems. My first attempt, in 2020, was put on hold due to Covid restrictions but that's not their fault. Mine was installed by EON on behalf of Bulb. EON also installed the smart meter in my previous flat (where they were my supplier) - again, no issues.

I will add though that during my neighbour's installation, something went wrong and she ended up without power for the evening and needed to have her consumer unit replaced. I'm not sure if that was the installer's fault, or who picked up the bill. I only know about the problem because I let her use my power while she was waiting for the repairs to be carried out.

 

[Davester50]

i am not convinced with the present fashion of having "smart" meters installed (except maybe in new builds) as they do not reduce bills, do not work very well with Economy 7 (which I have),

Number 2 son has one in his flat. Makes you really look at what you're using, and you'll never fully fill the kettle ever again!
He's E7, and no complaints with the Second Gen Smart meter.

 

[Ediswan]

Can anybody explain where the claims of smart meters not working well with Economy 7 come from ? All I can find is second hand, at best. By rights, a smart meter should be at least as good as a mechanical meter at knowing what time of day it is.

I wonder if it is due to inexperienced installers messing up the switched R2 (night) connection. (Much the same as 'smart meters start fires'.)

 

[Davester50]

Can anybody explain where the claims of smart meters not working well with Economy 7 come from ? All I can find is second hand, at best. By rights, a smart meter should be at least as good as a mechanical meter at knowing what time of day it is.

I wonder if it is due to inexperienced installers messing up the switched R2 (night) connection. (Much the same as 'smart meters start fires'.)

The installer at the son's place (I was flat sitting while it was getting fitted) hadn't fitted an E7 connection before, but "phoned a friend" for advice, but there's been no issues after fitting.

 

[GusB]

Can anybody explain where the claims of smart meters not working well with Economy 7 come from ? All I can find is second hand, at best. By rights, a smart meter should be at least as good as a mechanical meter at knowing what time of day it is.

I wonder if it is due to inexperienced installers messing up the switched R2 (night) connection. (Much the same as 'smart meters start fires'.)

Even if the R2 connection has been set incorrectly, this would affect a standard meter every bit as much as a smart one. In fact, it would be far quicker to pick up on such an error with a smart meter due to the meter readings being more frequent.

 

[JamesT]

Can anybody explain where the claims of smart meters not working well with Economy 7 come from ? All I can find is second hand, at best. By rights, a smart meter should be at least as good as a mechanical meter at knowing what time of day it is.

I wonder if it is due to inexperienced installers messing up the switched R2 (night) connection. (Much the same as 'smart meters start fires'.)

https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-m...oor-heating-or-other-5th-port-appliances-8545 Shows an extra terminal on the meter for managing the overnight heating circuit.
https://www.ombudsman-services.org/faqs/energy-sector-faqs#are-economy-7-smart-meters-not-available Mentions there being a limited supply of such meters.
Given how things get cargo-culted, it wouldn’t surprise me to find that the first smart meters were only single rate so couldn’t cope with an E7 setup. There clearly are suitable meters now, but people will be repeating old knowledge as ‘fact’.

 

[sor]

I had mine installed as SMETS2 (smart meter that could be used with any supplier) was in its infancy. Upon seeing that I had two distribution boards the installer said that he would need to install a SMETS1 instead (and I can’t remember specifically why, whether it was that meters were unavailable or he didn’t have one, but he spent a lot of time in the van, presumably on the phone to someone to get permission).

While my SMETS1 meter is an all in one, it seems my neighbour has the same model minus the second output, and a separate box with a contactor to provide that facility. Of course my other neighbour went smart a lot later and theirs is the all singing all dancing SMETS2

 

[AM9]

I had mine installed as SMETS2 (smart meter that could be used with any supplier) was in its infancy. Upon seeing that I had two distribution boards the installer said that he would need to install a SMETS1 instead (and I can’t remember specifically why, whether it was that meters were unavailable or he didn’t have one, but he spent a lot of time in the van, presumably on the phone to someone to get permission).

While my SMETS1 meter is an all in one, it seems my neighbour has the same model minus the second output, and a separate box with a contactor to provide that facility. Of course my other neighbour went smart a lot later and theirs is the all singing all dancing SMETS2

Aren't the SMETS1 meters now able to recieve updated firmware that will enable them to operate as SMETS2 devices?

 

[sor]

Aren't the SMETS1 meters now able to recieve updated firmware that will enable them to operate as SMETS2 devices?

I believe so, though when I put my MPAN/postcode into the checker it says it hasn’t happened yet. No idea how they plan the rollout, though my supplier is happily talking to it anyway in SMETS1 mode (when I last moved supplier I went to one that specifically could)