As a general point I see that a lot of comments on this thread are non rail related. This reflects the amount society depends on the car. So how does rail get to be more relevant or essential ?.
I would say we need to look at public transport as a whole. Rail should be part of an integrated public transport network. To think otherwise and treat each mode in isolation is er isolationist !.
Thinking about my journeys.
Walk where I can (and further than the younger generation would).
Bus to beyond the town centre.
Car to retail that is mainly out of town (including fo big DIY things).
Central London by Bus (to slightly beyond town centre) then train.
Car to things like my favourite music festival - a venue I would not visit if I had no car.
Cardiff from Croydon by Bus, Train * (Victoria) Coach to Cardiff, Lift (the coach and busses no longer connect by Cardiff Central station).
* = As I have an over 60s (free) Oyster the fare from East Croydon to Victoria is zero - otherwise it would often cost more then the coach from Victoria to Cardiff which is a ridiculous difference.
Meanwhile :-
Yes I lived in Hong Kong. Car ownership is low because parking is unaffordable in general except in rural villages. Also the fuel cost plus tunnel cost is generally more expensive than bus fare as well.
Town centre is by definition where the market is. Therefore it's where everyone wants to go so buses operate there. Also as town centre parking is at a premium people won't want to use a car to go there.
In the case of London many decades age (1960s iirc ?) people were encouraged to move out of central London and commute in by train. They own a car but it is impractical to use it into central London. However most other large connurbations have not changed in the same way.
Not sure 3 hours would cover a bit of shopping, something to eat and a movie.
Personally I think these places should be forced to charge for parking so we have a level playing field with town and city centres. Let’s call it a city regeneration tax. Not sure I’m going to find many friends with that opinion
Fingers crossed the march of ecology will cover that.
The people I know in my sport club, apart from an American (!) who moved recently to Bournemouth, all have a car, however, all of my close friends who moved from Hong Kong don't have one and use 26-30 Railcards for train travel.
Age demographic at play there I suspect.
I cannot believe that this is a railway forum and there are members here against rail and for cars. Are we in America?
Next - why all nursery school teachers should have automatic weapons? . This is a complete nonsense, surely we can all see that?
The reason people go to out of town shopping centres is not because people 'like them' it's because we have Fostered a car dependent culture. Come on people!
There's a reason why 2/3 Britons are overweight and it isn't because of parking charges in city centres
Reality is reality. Sometimes the truth hurts and needs to be heard.
I agree about the rise of car dependent culture. And then the councils and government capitalise on the investment.
One can be sympathetic to rail without becoming an unthinking zealot?
In addition, retail moving closer to the major road system is a good thing - it reduces lorry mileage in urban areas and saves fuel, lorry drivers time and probably lives.
Town centres are ultimately dying as significant retail areas, especially with the trend to online leaving the UK with a huuuge oversupply of retail space.
If rail and public transport generally want a place in our new world they have to be better than they are.
Faster, cheaper and more convenient.
But I fear the nodes that public transport can focus on are being spread out too thinly by replacing town centres with more than one out of town area. And often no where near a railway line.
I’m sat on a train and I overheard a passenger say that it’s cheaper for him to travel home by train instead of by car for the first time due to fuel prices going up. I’m sure he’s not the only one thinking that.
So the rail industry must capitalise on advantage that by being RELIABLE.
I know tfw are working towards an integrated public transport for Wales, they are building bus stops at rural stations with ticketing that flows from bus journeys onwards to the train journey.
It's about integrating public transport to make it work and relevant for the public, this all takes investment and cooperation to make it work.
The price of petrol & diesel will drive people onto public transport, so making it work for the travelling public is the way to go.
This is progress but I was disappointed to see the bus interchange area by Cardiff Central station get replaced by office blocks. Bang goes a major public interchange.
Yes that's an interesting one, especially, I suspect in the North.
My weekly season that I buy is around £20/25. A weeks worth of petrol for my commute done by road is coming in at around £35/40 at the moment and add parking on top, around £3 per day so another £15, and you talking over £50 per week. The train is considerably cheaper at this point than driving! I've had a few strange looks from friends (of the non-rail variety!) and neighbours when I say I'm using the train rather than driving as round here the default is to drive. But they soon change their tune when I point out the price difference!
I actually think that Northern could make some hay by pointing out, where relevant, the price of a weekly season compared to a tank of fuel and parking every week.
Of course I fully expect that the Treasury will see the above and rather than think about growing the market and revenue that way they'll decide the season ticket is too cheap and must immediately be doubled in price
That is the risk. And a nationalised rail industry might be more likely to get hamstrung like that - assuming the state can get more control than it currently already has !.
.
