Comment piece in Passenger Transport - "The railway risks becoming irrelevant"

[AlterEgo]

Yes, it means Driver Only Operation.

To be clear, it means the train is wholly operated by the driver. It does not preclude the presence of other, non safety critical staff on board the train, like Ticket Examiners.

 

[JonathanH]

Most DOO stations aren't unstaffed, though, it is primarily used in the South East where things are busier and stations are more likely to be staffed.

Those staff are likely to be employed on a gateline however. It will be interesting to see if gatelines can be changed to remote monitoring with, hopefully, a much harder barrier to push through. The current design is not really fit for purpose because too many fare evaders have realised that they can just push through or tailgate.

Then the member of staff can be employed on other duties around the station and the gatelines can be on for the full time trains are running.

 

[Falcon1200]

Most DOO stations aren't unstaffed, though, it is primarily used in the South East where things are busier and stations are more likely to be staffed.

DOO has been operating extensively in the Glasgow area since 1985, many of the stations involved have only a single staff shift, if any.
On the Glasgow Central-Neilston route, for example, apart from Central itself only three of the other ten stations have early and late shift staffing, and one has none, at all.

 

[johncrossley]

Those staff are likely to be employed on a gateline however. It will be interesting to see if gatelines can be changed to remote monitoring with, hopefully, a much harder barrier to push through.

Do they have to be able to be pushed open relatively easily in the case of an emergency?

 

[JonathanH]

Do they have to be able to be pushed open relatively easily in the case of an emergency?

Not to the extent that it allows fare evasion.

If the system and the current rules could be changed, in an emergency they could be released by an attendant in a monitoring station somewhere covering multiple stations.

 

[theageofthetra]

0h well batted Sir.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==

Do they have to be able to be pushed open relatively easily in the case of an emergency?

Not a problem in the Netherlands. Keeps the undesirables and the freeloaders mostly off.

 

[johncrossley]

Not a problem in the Netherlands. Keeps the undesirables and the freeloaders mostly off.

I'm sure I read that they can be pushed open specifically because they are unmanned.

 

[Goldfish62]

Do they have to be able to be pushed open relatively easily in the case of an emergency?

Not relatively easily, but yes. They need to be capable of being pushed open with reasonable force in an emergency. I can't see anyone allowing that to be changed.

Barriers are never going to stop absolutely everyone.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==

Not to the extent that it allows fare evasion.

If the system and the current rules could be changed, in an emergency they could be released by an attendant in a monitoring station somewhere covering multiple stations.

Ah right, so let's wait for the attendant at their remote monitoring post to notice that the station is burning down before releasing the barriers.

 

[InOban]

Presumably as soon as someone presses a fire alarm the gates are automatically released, as would be any emergency exits from the station.

 

[HSTEd]

Good luck writing a safety case for remotely controlled barriers that can hold people inside a station.
Even if linked to the fire alarm you can think of numerous problems that could cause serious issues if remote control of barriers is implemented.

I really don't think its worth the possible revenue saving compared to DOO/Harrington Humps everywhere.

 

[Goldfish62]

Good luck writing a safety case for remotely controlled barriers that can hold people inside a station.
Even if linked to the fire alarm you can think of numerous problems that could cause serious issues if remote control of barriers is implemented.

I really don't think its worth the possible revenue saving compared to DOO/Harrington Humps everywhere.

Exactly.

 

[baz962]

Those staff are likely to be employed on a gateline however. It will be interesting to see if gatelines can be changed to remote monitoring with, hopefully, a much harder barrier to push through. The current design is not really fit for purpose because too many fare evaders have realised that they can just push through or tailgate.

Then the member of staff can be employed on other duties around the station and the gatelines can be on for the full time trains are running.

Usually I believe though, if they are away from the barriers, they have to leave one open. Probably some sort of fire regulations.

 

[InOban]

I think similar to what I suggested applies in real world outside the railway.

 

[Bikeman78]

At the same time, putting office blocks next to a station should encourage use of the railway.

How much use was made of the ability to interchange between bus and train at Cardiff? There is a tendency to place greater importance on interchange between bus and train than the needs of pure bus users on this forum.

As an occasional user of buses I have to say the current situation is not great. Most buses do a loop now with different routes at different stops along the way. The bus station had plenty of space to wait under cover. The current stops have small shelters. Frankly it's tipped me in favour of driving to Newport for a train if I have the kids with me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==

Well yes, the National Express coach terminal in Cardiff is in a crazy location for onward travel and interchange.

I genuinely don't know where it is now!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==

They send someone there in a van. But it does require prebooking.

Most DOO stations aren't unstaffed, though, it is primarily used in the South East where things are busier and stations are more likely to be staffed.

It is very rare to see a ramp deployed at a station served by DOO trains unless they have dispatch staff. E.g. Brentwood has staff at the ticket barriers but I've never seen a ramp used there. It's all very well investing millions on lifts but not much help if people cannot get from the platform to the train.

 

[Bald Rick]

Does Hertford need 2 railways.

probably not.

Ware needs a railway though, as does Cuffley, Enfield Chase, etc.

 

[Cowley]

As part of a general forum tidy up we have decided to move all of the political discussions around industrial action into the one dedicated thread which you’ll now find here:

Rail strikes discussion thread

The forum team are aware that the subject of industrial action is a highly passionate topic. As such, in this thread only, we are now trialling allowing free debate on this subject. Please be advised that, due to the anticipated pace of discussion and the understandable passion on both sides of...

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Thanks all.