Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[AndrewE]

And less noise and light.

Wouldn't that mean people getting a concrete wall a few feet in front of their windows?

not if it was semicircular in cross-section, or even a gothic arch: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/whitby-whale-bone-arch
It has been pointed out before that the houses are relatively few and could even be bought if nobody wanted to lose their views of the railway.
It's a national priority. Part of decarbonising transport and bolstering the modal shift to public transport. J(F)DI.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm interested to dig a little into semantics- is the line, or the route, to be fully electrified?

The existing line (plus the new bits being built under TRU, eg the extra tracks from Huddersfield to Ravensthoroe) is to be fully electrified, as per the Government statement.

One of the 802’s is in the process of having a Diesel engine removed and replaced by battery equipment

I wouldn’t be surprised if the plan to ‘electrify between Man and York’ includes the use of battery power

No doubt the batteries will be useful, but they (nor the Diesel engines) will be needed on the core Transpennine route in normal service when the electrification is complete. Indeed I’d be surprised if the 802s were still needed.

 

[LittleAH]

I'm interested to dig a little into semantics- is the line, or the route, to be fully electrified?

The former I'd take as a plan to electrify despite the Standedge/Mossley difficulties- the latter I'd interpret as wires Hudds-Marsden, and thence an electrified NPR line to Piccadilly, but Marsden-Stalybridge remaining a diesel (or battery?) island.

Marsden to Stalybridge will be electrified.

Wouldn't that mean people getting a concrete wall a few feet in front of their windows?

Not necessarily.

No doubt the batteries will be useful, but they (nor the Diesel engines) will be needed on the core Transpennine route in normal service when the electrification is complete. Indeed I’d be surprised if the 802s were still needed.

802s will be of use for the routes that aren't electrified.

 

[yorkie]

Can we stick to discussing the plans for the TPE route upgrade in this thread please.

Anything speculative and/or relating to rolling stock can be posted elsewhere, thanks

Rolling stock speculation can be posted at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ne-express-traction-route-allocations.226293/

 

[Grumpy]

Other sections will follow once Network Rail has established the costs and gained DfT approval for the spend.

Seems a barmy process. How can the authorising body authorise bits of a project if they haven't got the total costs of the project in front of them to see if it's worthwhile?. What happens if they don't authorise one of the later sections?
If you were building a bridge you wouldn't seek a separate authority for each pier.

 

[Bald Rick]

Seems a barmy process. How can the authorising body authorise bits of a project if they haven't got the total costs of the project in front of them to see if it's worthwhile?. What happens if they don't authorise one of the later sections?

That’s bimodes for you.

 

[Grumpy]

That’s bimodes for you.

Indeed. But that's not "is to be fully electrified, as per the Government statement".
This is where governments let themselves down. As soon as they make a definitive statement such as "is to be fully electrified" or "the new leg will be built" etc. then the public have an expectation (or should have) that it will happen. They should either qualify their original statements at the time with relevant caveats or keep quiet until they have the costings for a fully planned and designed project. The current process of committing to projects before you have done detailed planning doesn't work eg GWML electrification, Crossrail, HS2 etc etc. Clearly you would need to commit to spending a lot of fees up front but you would get better decision making and faster progress once authorised.

 

[Bald Rick]

Indeed. But that's not "is to be fully electrified, as per the Government statement".

it is, in stages. Same as the WCML, ECML, West Anglia line etc.

Clearly you would need to commit to spending a lot of fees up front but you would get better decision making and faster progress once authorised.

you also get it quicker and a smoother workload.

 

[tpjm]

The route between Manchester and Leeds will be electrified in full. Whilst not funded for delivery yet, lots of design development has been underway for over 12 months. Standedge and Mossley are not an issue. Until the project is funded and the delivery scope agreed between all parties, announcements will not be made.

 

[Bald Rick]

The route between Manchester and Leeds will be electrified in full. Whilst not funded for delivery yet, lots of design development has been underway for over 12 months. Standedge and Mossley are not an issue. Until the project is funded and the delivery scope agreed between all parties, announcements will not be made.

Manchester to York. It is funded for delivery. But not fully authorised. They are different things.

 

[tpjm]

There is much to be done before any work is undertaken between Leeds and York, most notably driven by NPR/HS2/whatever we're calling that bit these days. I struggle to see how the project can be fully funded when there is still a significant amount of option selection to undertake and development work in light of the IRP and NPR running via Diggle.

The perpetual TRU paradigm will likely see the project descoped and re-scoped another three times before the end of next year.

 

[Bald Rick]

I struggle to see how the project can be fully funded when there is still a significant amount of option selection to undertake and development work in light of the IRP and NPR running via Diggle.

What option selection would that be for TRU?

 

[tpjm]

As with any project, there are always multiple ways by which to achieve the desired benefits. Once the 'required' interventions (to deliver the programme's objectives) are determined there is inevitably a number of approaches that can be taken (for example, an intervention at a station to deliver electrical clearances could involve rebuilding on the current site, relocating, etc). Ensuring the final selected intervention delivers the right output at end state, demonstrates good value for money, and meets the requirements for deliverability is critical to the overall success of the project and in most cases there will be a notable cost differential between the options. The programme has, for a long time, been based around journey time improvements and recently, the DfT have come on-board very strongly about delivering the right end result for the travelling customer which has a higher cost profile.

 

[Bald Rick]

My point is the options have been selected and are now in design…

 

[CdBrux]

My point is the options have been selected and are now in design…

Including Stalybridge to Huddersfield?

 

[Bald Rick]

Including Stalybridge to Huddersfield?

yes!

 

[tpjm]

yes!

Maybe I'm working on a different project then! There are no stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield that are currently past GRIP3...

 

[Bald Rick]

Maybe I'm working on a different project then! There are no stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield that are currently past GRIP3...

well that told me, sorry! I understood design had just started. Perhaps it has slipped a little.

 

[Glenn1969]

well that told me, sorry! I understood design had just started. Perhaps it has slipped a little.

I haven't seen any announcements saying funding for wires has been authorised yet and I still think the IRP leaving Ravensthorpe- Dewsbury- Leeds as a 2 track railway is a mistake that will stop the service level being enhanced.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On Stalybridge-Huddersfield (TRU), surely there must be options related to the amount of 4-tracking/passing loops/resignalling and how to deal with Standedge and other tunnels, not to mention the layout at Stalybridge?
Unless the "paused" CP5 scheme was much further along than we knew, I would have thought NR was still early in the optioneering and value engineering phase.
That's assuming NPR hasn't put another layer of uncertainty into what to do east of Marsden.
And the excuse for pausing the CP5 scheme was that it "just put the wires up" without any other route upgrades - are we back to that position?

 

[43095john]

During the Xmas/New Year break it seems all Signals between Church Fenton North Jn and Colton Jn have been replaced by new style signals (simular to the type used on the Blackpool Line)

 

[Ken H]

During the Xmas/New Year break it seems all Signals between Chruch Fenton North Jn and Colton Jn have been replaced by new style signals (simular to the type used on the Blackpool Line)

why do that? what was wrong with the old ones? Indeed, what can go wrong with some lights in a box?

 

[Halish Railway]

During the Xmas/New Year break it seems all Signals between Chruch Fenton North Jn and Colton Jn have been replaced by new style signals (simular to the type used on the Blackpool Line)

That seems to be in keeping with most recent electrification schemes - On the GWML west of Heathrow Jn most of the signals are new and that route has the same OHLE structures as on this scheme.

I’m assuming that the signals have to be replaced because the present ones couldn’t be sighted due to the bulky nature of the structures.

 

[59CosG95]

That seems to be in keeping with most recent electrification schemes - On the GWML west of Heathrow Jn most of the signals are new and that route has the same OHLE structures as on this scheme.

I’m assuming that the signals have to be replaced because the present ones couldn’t be sighted due to the bulky nature of the structures.

Either the bulky nature, or the fact that the recently replaced signals weren't AC-immune...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2022 ==

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/york-to-church-fenton-monthly-project-tracker/January%202022%20York%20to%20Church%20Fenton%20monthly%20project%20tracker.pdf

January's York - Church Fenton tracker is now up.
It's just SPS installation this month; Church Fenton area on midweek nights this week (03-06 Jan), Ulleskelf area on the nights of the 15th, 21st and 28th, and in the Braegate Lane area most nights this month.

All the remaining details can be found on the link.

 

[Ken H]

Either the bulky nature, or the fact that the recently replaced signals weren't AC-immune...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2022 ==

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/york-to-church-fenton-monthly-project-tracker/January%202022%20York%20to%20Church%20Fenton%20monthly%20project%20tracker.pdf

January's York - Church Fenton tracker is now up.
It's just SPS installation this month; Church Fenton area on midweek nights this week (03-06 Jan), Ulleskelf area on the nights of the 15th, 21st and 28th, and in the Braegate Lane area most nights this month.

All the remaining details can be found on the link.

Is there a switch on date for church fenton-colon jct yet?
Any sign of any steelwork being erected man vic - Stalyebridge yet?

 

[jonesy3001]

Is there a switch on date for church fenton-colon jct yet?
Any sign of any steelwork being erected man vic - Stalyebridge yet?

Pictures on the Manchester railway group on Facebook, comments say they have put back up the wires to bromley street junction and renewed track but nothing else.

 

[td97]

Quite what Network Rail mean by "two sections of new electric wiring" is anyone's guess, but progress is progress. I assume the "four new track components" referred to are whole S&C units rather than less ambitious track components such as four new bearer pads

Across seven days, between Saturday 25 December 2021 and Monday 3 January 2022, more than 100 railway workers installed four new track components – used to direct trains – completed two sections of new electric wiring – which powers some trains – and upgraded signalling equipment near Manchester Victoria station.

Network Rail completes major rail upgrade in Manchester as part of Transpennine Route Upgrade

Network Rail has completed a major track and signalling upgrade in Manchester as part of the Transpennine Route Upgrade The improvements bring a more modern, reliable railway for passengers and allow more trains to run in the future Further work is planned every Sunday between 9 January and 6...

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

 

[snowball]

According to this the old Sunnyside Lane bridge, Droylsden, was due to be demolished over Christmas. Has the replacement bridge gone in? Otherwise it looks as though an industrial site between the railway and river would be cut off?

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Sunnyside-Lane-December-Update.pdf

 

[Halish Railway]

I’ve just recorded an onboard video travelling between Church Fenton and Colton Jn showing the progress being made on electrification.

Does anyone have any requests of what annotations/captions I should make on the video?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Location of piles and any civics interventions such as bridge numbers etc